Five Towson Sororities on Probation (Alcohol)

[PsychTau2]

Originally Posted by DGTess

But to put organizations on probation for following tradition??????

What's next? Elbow-length gloves and tea-party bid openings?

If the tradition is against the policies that everyone agrees to follow (and by joining a fraternity or sorority at some point during the NM/Initiation process you agree to follow the policies), then heck yeah, discipline is warranted.

I may have a tradition of speeding to work every day, but my tradition isn't going to stop the police tradition of writing a ticket when I get caught.

PsychTau

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

This is why I think in order to apply to be a Rho Chi/Chi Pi/Rho Gamma/whatever you HAVE to have had at least one year on the other side. At Iowa State, I think you had to have both - you had to have gone through formal recruitment and you had to have one year on the other side as an active before you could apply to be a Rho Chi.

I was a little shocked at this myself. I think they have so many counselors (54 with only about 275 PNMs) that they take anyone who wants to do it.

[AOII Angel]

Don't get me wrong...there were some bad things going on at Bid Day. There were chapters that were openly drinking on Burdick Field. The campus has to take a stand, but I have to say that they are not accepting that the University has some responsibility in this mess. The Panhellenic advisor (an employee of Towson) let these obviously intoxicated women run across the field with their NMs...my PH advisor would have sent us home so fast our heads would have spun. He also wasn't the one reporting the activity and presumably watched it happen the year before without addressing the problem. I agree that something had to be done, but I don't agree that it is right to punish an entire chapter for the actions of one sister. Why is it that alcohol infractions are the only ones that get this type of attention? When members break other rules, they get to accept their punishment without affecting their sisters who didn't have anything to do with their activities. Anyway, just because it is "tradition" to celebrate the end of recruitment by drinking doesn't mean they know it is against the rules. It means that they like to drink with their "recruitment counselor sisters" before returning to their real sisters. Further more, this campus is very laid back. I don't think they do recruitment retreats or talk much about recruitment before the event. These are extremely "no-frill" only talk kind of parties. I was really amazed how little preparation and practice went into the week. They don't practice singing. They get to the party about an hour before, throw up some decorations and starting chanting.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Don't get me wrong...there were some bad things going on at Bid Day. There were chapters that were openly drinking on Burdick Field. The campus has to take a stand, but I have to say that they are not accepting that the University has some responsibility in this mess. The Panhellenic advisor (an employee of Towson) let these obviously intoxicated women run across the field with their NMs...my PH advisor would have sent us home so fast our heads would have spun. He also wasn't the one reporting the activity and presumably watched it happen the year before without addressing the problem. I agree that something had to be done, but I don't agree that it is right to punish an entire chapter for the actions of one sister. Why is it that alcohol infractions are the only ones that get this type of attention? When members break other rules, they get to accept their punishment without affecting their sisters who didn't have anything to do with their activities. Anyway, just because it is "tradition" to celebrate the end of recruitment by drinking doesn't mean they know it is against the rules. It means that they like to drink with their "recruitment counselor sisters" before returning to their real sisters. Further more, this campus is very laid back. I don't think they do recruitment retreats or talk much about recruitment before the event. These are extremely "no-frill" only talk kind of parties. I was really amazed how little preparation and practice went into the week. They don't practice singing. They get to the party about an hour before, throw up some decorations and starting chanting.

You've mentioned the Panhellenic advisor many times. While I do agree that he or she should definitely bear part of the punishment (maybe a probationary period to determine if they really are fit for the job) I do not think he or she is the sole person to be blamed.

There's a guy at work who has been doing his job for the past 4 years. And everytime something doesn't work out, he blames it on someone else. "Bob didn't show me how to do it". Screw that. If it was something he needed to know, he should have taken the initiative to either ask someone or figure it out himself.

So let's imagine that there are sophomores joining the Rho Chi group. Regardless of how laid back the campus is or rush is or the Panehellenic advisor, the chapter should TELL THEIR MEMBERS in a meeting or retreat or somewhere (they do have meetings right?) what is and what is not appropriate behavior.

The chapter should take the initiative to nip that sort of thing in the bud because the behavior of all sisters - whether you are wearing your GLO shirt or not- reflects on the ENTIRE GROUP.

I have a feeling that the chapters who got the major punishments will likely do something to that effect in the future.

Instead of throwing an "It's not fair" tantrum, they should be focusing on why things happened and deal with the members who obviously failed to present the group in a positive light.

Lets pretend ABC had a few members who were hazing. The newspaper headlines would not say "Five StateU students were charged with hazing" it would say "ABC members charged with hazing."

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

You've mentioned the Panhellenic advisor many times. While I do agree that he or she should definitely bear part of the punishment (maybe a probationary period to determine if they really are fit for the job) I do not think he or she is the sole person to be blamed.

There's a guy at work who has been doing his job for the past 4 years. And everytime something doesn't work out, he blames it on someone else. "Bob didn't show me how to do it". Screw that. If it was something he needed to know, he should have taken the initiative to either ask someone or figure it out himself.

So let's imagine that there are sophomores joining the Rho Chi group. Regardless of how laid back the campus is or rush is or the Panehellenic advisor, the chapter should TELL THEIR MEMBERS in a meeting or retreat or somewhere (they do have meetings right?) what is and what is not appropriate behavior.

The chapter should take the initiative to nip that sort of thing in the bud because the behavior of all sisters - whether you are wearing your GLO shirt or not- reflects on the ENTIRE GROUP.

I have a feeling that the chapters who got the major punishments will likely do something to that effect in the future.

Instead of throwing an "It's not fair" tantrum, they should be focusing on why things happened and deal with the members who obviously failed to present the group in a positive light.

Lets pretend ABC had a few members who were hazing. The newspaper headlines would not say "Five StateU students were charged with hazing" it would say "ABC members charged with hazing."

I don't disagree with your ideas, but you are generalizing. All I can speak for is AOII which did inform it's members of the rules, but this happened once the members returned for recruitment. Sure, there needs to be better planning and things should change. I completely agree...the problem is that the actual problems are not really being addressed. Towson seems to be making an example of the greek system to cover its own tail after students were injured at a university sponsored event. It's a public relations and legal nightmare, but throwing the chapters to the wolves like these women started this without help from a lax administration is ridiculous. As for adressing the members involved, AOII has made changes and is holding the actives involved responsible. The university applauded our decision to require them to present an educational conference for the campus about alcohol abuse and placing them on AOII social probation until Spring Break 2008. Hmmm....wonder where they got their sanction idea? The truth of the matter is, the campus created an atmosphere with no authority to police the chapters which are allowed to run around doing what they see fit. Each chapter should be held responsible, but so should the university and panhellenic advisor who have the authority in this situation. Last time I checked, college students aren't always the most informed or responsible humans...I think that's why we have advisors in the first place. Can you place all the blame on the advisees when the advisor didn't do his/her job? In the end, I don't have a personal stake in this...I advise the chapter, but whether or not they have socials this year effects me not one bit. I just find it unreasonable to ruin the first year for the NMs who were punished twice by ruining their bid day with drunk recruitment counselors then ruining their year with probations.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I was a little shocked at this myself. I think they have so many counselors (54 with only about 275 PNMs) that they take anyone who wants to do it.

OK, this is really messed up. A Rho Chi for every 5 girls??? Why on earth would you need so many, especially at a school where it sounds like things are fairly informal? Plus they absolutely should NOT be girls who've never gone through rush on the other side, unless you're desparate to get people to do it.

This doesn't just affect the sororities - it affects the fraternities who won't have partners to build floats with for Homecoming, or to mix with. I wouldn't be surprised if the fraternities lose some pledges because of this.

DGTess - if the Rho Chis are sophomores, they're most likely not 21.

The Rho Chis should be punished and the whole program overhauled, but putting 5 sororities on probation and the other 3 on sanctions is kind of like putting a whole sorority on probation because Tanya 21 went to the bar on her own during rush and got smashed.

[REE1993]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I presume Towson is not a dry campus?

How long before someone claims after bids are open, Rush is over? Dry rush???

I'm not condoning being drunk in public, and if any of those drinking were under 21, they should be charged with "minor in possession" as well. But to put organizations on probation for following tradition??????

What's next? Elbow-length gloves and tea-party bid openings?

They weren't put on probation for "following tradition". They were put on probation because they (allegedly) drank during recruitment, which is prohibited.

I do, however, think that the individuals should be disciplined, and not necessarily the entire organization. But I wasn't there and don't have all the details.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

OK, this is really messed up. A Rho Chi for every 5 girls??? Why on earth would you need so many, especially at a school where it sounds like things are fairly informal? Plus they absolutely should NOT be girls who've never gone through rush on the other side, unless you're desparate to get people to do it.

This doesn't just affect the sororities - it affects the fraternities who won't have partners to build floats with for Homecoming, or to mix with. I wouldn't be surprised if the fraternities lose some pledges because of this.

DGTess - if the Rho Chis are sophomores, they're most likely not 21.

The Rho Chis should be punished and the whole program overhauled, but putting 5 sororities on probation and the other 3 on sanctions is kind of like putting a whole sorority on probation because Tanya 21 went to the bar on her own during rush and got smashed.

AOII International asked this same question...apparently there is a rule in the Campus Panhellenic Bylaws that requires 8% of total membership as Rho Chis. A little overkill...sounds like they are not willing to have a sliding scale to match the number of Rho Chis to the number of PNMs. As for the fraternities...it definitely effects them and will effect Homecoming.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I presume Towson is not a dry campus?

How long before someone claims after bids are open, Rush is over? Dry rush???

I'm not condoning being drunk in public, and if any of those drinking were under 21, they should be charged with "minor in possession" as well. But to put organizations on probation for following tradition??????

What's next? Elbow-length gloves and tea-party bid openings?

And the issue would be... ?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by REE1993

They weren't put on probation for "following tradition". They were put on probation because they (allegedly) drank during recruitment, which is prohibited.

I do, however, think that the individuals should be disciplined, and not necessarily the entire organization. But I wasn't there and don't have all the details.

I've also been told that the panhellenic advisor knew exactly what was going on and was partying on bid day himself. These women definitely made the wrong choice that day, but after talking to many of them, they were clueless that this could happen. Dumb... I know, but even if a rule is well known, if administration overlooks the breaking of said rule for years, this is seen as permission to break the rule. Luckily there were no serious injuries and things finally will change. It takes more than just a single chapter, member or alumna to make these kinds of changes, it needs acceptance by the entire system and change at every single level, ie. University, Panhellenic, Chapter and Individual. Focusing everything strictly at the Chapter is ignoring 3/4 of the problem. In the end, the women in these chapters are amazing...I was so impressed seeing the emphasis on philanthropy on this campus. They will rise above this fiasco and be strong again.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by PsychTau2

If the tradition is against the policies that everyone agrees to follow (and by joining a fraternity or sorority at some point during the NM/Initiation process you agree to follow the policies), then heck yeah, discipline is warranted.

I may have a tradition of speeding to work every day, but my tradition isn't going to stop the police tradition of writing a ticket when I get caught.

PsychTau

Excellent example regarding Risk Management and Hazing and why certain "traditions" should not be continued.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

This is utter foolishness all the way around. They have way too many Rho Gammas. My school had only about 20 something for over 400 PNMs, first of all.
Second of all, don't they usually put these women up in some kind of housing accomodation during the recruitment process? My school does, and we made it clear there was to be no drinking, boys, etc. at anytime. So if something like this had happened I honestly don't think that the chapters would have taken the fall in this type of situation, the whole of Panhellenic and our Advisor would have been hauled in with a quickness because it is our responsibility to maintain the standards of the accomodations during that time.

And lastly, for those who keep insisting that these Rho Gammas "may not have known" I find it impossible everyone is required to know their organizations alcohol policy (usually for insurance/risk management purposes) unless you belong to some renegade chapter that has utter disregard for "The Book" and throws it out the window. I know that we are made very aware of what is expected of us at all times in my chapter. And I'm taking a wild guess that it is mandatory for all other NPC chapters as well. That is simply a vital part of risk management and new member education and any chapter who ignores it is in violation of the risk management policy by not putting that information out there. When you are a new member you usually have to sign paperwork and complete programs clearly stating this. Now whether the chapter abides by them is another story, but in that case then they are clearly in violation. I'd find it hard to believe that there is any group that lacks sometime of clearly stated information regarding the alcohol policy for new members and sisters.

But regarding this particular case, I feel like Panhellenic and the Advisor is responsible because chapters, while having policies against these activities, are unable to enforce them while members are disaffiliated. ...Come to think I believe we had Rho Gammas sign information stating that they would follow certain rules as a precaution...they dropped the ball over there BIG TIME!

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I don't disagree with your ideas, but you are generalizing. All I can speak for is AOII which did inform it's members of the rules, but this happened once the members returned for recruitment. Sure, there needs to be better planning and things should change. I completely agree...the problem is that the actual problems are not really being addressed. Towson seems to be making an example of the greek system to cover its own tail after students were injured at a university sponsored event. It's a public relations and legal nightmare, but throwing the chapters to the wolves like these women started this without help from a lax administration is ridiculous. As for adressing the members involved, AOII has made changes and is holding the actives involved responsible. The university applauded our decision to require them to present an educational conference for the campus about alcohol abuse and placing them on AOII social probation until Spring Break 2008. Hmmm....wonder where they got their sanction idea? The truth of the matter is, the campus created an atmosphere with no authority to police the chapters which are allowed to run around doing what they see fit. Each chapter should be held responsible, but so should the university and panhellenic advisor who have the authority in this situation. Last time I checked, college students aren't always the most informed or responsible humans...I think that's why we have advisors in the first place. Can you place all the blame on the advisees when the advisor didn't do his/her job? In the end, I don't have a personal stake in this...I advise the chapter, but whether or not they have socials this year effects me not one bit. I just find it unreasonable to ruin the first year for the NMs who were punished twice by ruining their bid day with drunk recruitment counselors then ruining their year with probations.

I agree that the Panehellenic Advisor should also be reprimanded if he knew this has been going on and not doing anything to do it.

At the same time, I also agree that college students are not the most responsible or informed people on the earth, and that is why we have advisors. The individual chapter advisors (at least at my alma mater) were the ones who made sure the Exec Board did their job of informing the rest of the chapter about all risk management/Org/NPC rules.

With that said, I realize that Rho Chis have to disaffiliate, but if they were informed of all the risk management/Org/NPC rules and still chose to drink because everyone else was doing it and it was tradition, it is still a violation of the rules, and they are still members of their orgs even if they were disaffiliated.

Those girls let the rest of their Bid Day Sober Sisters down.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Those girls let the rest of their Bid Day Sober Sisters down.

Exactly. It's why THEY AND THEY ALONE should get the punishment, not the whole sorority. If my whole sorority got put on probation because of something like this, that girl's life probably wouldn't be very pleasant.

[blackngoldengrl]

[QUOTE=BabyPiNK_FL;1536777]This is utter foolishness all the way around. They have way too many Rho Gammas. My school had only about 20 something for over 400 PNMs, first of all.
Second of all, don't they usually put these women up in some kind of housing accomodation during the recruitment process? My school does, and we made it clear there was to be no drinking, boys, etc. at anytime. So if something like this had happened I honestly don't think that the chapters would have taken the fall in this type of situation, the whole of Panhellenic and our Advisor would have been hauled in with a quickness because it is our responsibility to maintain the standards of the accomodations during that time.

This is Maryland. We don't do rush that way, as in before school starts and all. Even at the University of Maryland, it isn't done this way. And not all the sisters live in the house either.