Should fine dining establishments go out of their way to accomodate toddlers?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by agzg

Lately we've been super in love with Rick Bayless, who does sustainable organic Mexican food and hosts a cooking show in addition to owning and operating several restaurants in Chicago. They range in "fancy" from fairly casual (although I was shocked to see people there in jeans, but we also went to a show last Friday and people were wearing jeans there, too) Frontera Grill to slightly fancy Topolobampo, to the Library Room at Topolobampo which features five course meals complete with wine tasting.

All in Chicago, all connected. I know of other "haute" organic places elsewhere but I hestiate to make recommendations as I really only know first or second-hand accounts of places in Chicago.

I've been dying to go to one of Rick Bayless' restaurants, but the last time I was in Chicago, he had taken his whole staff for both places (Frontera Grill and Topolobampo) to Mexico for a retreat! My husband swears we'll go back to Chicago for a culinary tour of the city instead of the usual Cubs weekend with his cheap eats friends.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I've been dying to go to one of Rick Bayless' restaurants, but the last time I was in Chicago, he had taken his whole staff for both places (Frontera Grill and Topolobampo) to Mexico for a retreat! My husband swears we'll go back to Chicago for a culinary tour of the city instead of the usual Cubs weekend with his cheap eats friends.

I recommend all of his restaurants. If you want a quick (but good) and less expensive meal, XOCO is great - Mexican street food. Frontera's good for more casual dining. You can be jealous now - the last time we went to Frontera Maple was in season so they had Maple Flan. Best. Desert. Ever.

Sad thing is, you can't recommend a certain dish, because the menu changes every season!

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by agzg

I think the problem lies with the parents. They should be practicing how to eat out, AT HOME, with their kids. How to order. How to behave. How to ask for extra something-or-other, POLITELY. But, the vast majority of families that I see in restaurants (and yes, some of these include highly-zagat rated restaurants here in Chicgao), DON'T do that.

Agree.

I think it's fine to bring babies, toddlers and children to fine dining restaurants if they are quiet and well-mannered. My family took my brother and I with them to fine restaurants when we were very little because we were taught that going out to a restaurant - any restaurant - was a big deal. They taught us table manners at home and expected us to behave nicely at every meal. When it came to restaurants, they started small - McDonald's, IHOP, Red Robin - and gradually moved us up to "adult" restaurants they enjoyed. We always dressed up, because going out to eat was "special." And if we acted up, we got one (quiet) warning that we would have to leave if we didn't stop. The one time I threw a fit about no grilled cheese sandwich on the menu, WE ALL LEFT AND WENT HOME. I never acted up in a restaurant again.

Far too many ADULTS, let alone children, in this country don't know how to handle themselves in a nice, adult setting. They go to a French restaurant and then won't try anything "foreign" on the menu, they talk on their cell phone at the table, they annoy other diners by laughing loudly and drunkingly with their group of friends, they go to the theatre when they've got a terrible cough, etc. They likely were never taught how to behave in a grown-up setting, and so I'm in favor of teaching children when they are just babes. As long as one can be truthful with him/herself with regard to what the child is ready for, and is willing to remove the child from the situation when it becomes inappropriate.

[GMUBunny]

As a mother of two young children (4 and 2-going-on-20), I can say with certainty that children should be left at home if you're going to an upscale restaurant. If I'm in one, it's because I want a night away from snotty noses and Yo Gabba Gabba reruns. Your toddler or preschooler throwing silverware on the ground or screaming because she doesn't like peas is going to ruin that for me.

Now, as far as fine-r dining that's not considered "upscale": If your child can behave themselves, sure, bring them along. If they can't- again, leave them at home. My son can sit in just about any nice restaurant and behave himself. I make sure to have his food delivered first (typically with our appetizer) so that he is occupied throughout the remainder of the evening. My daughter, however, is simply a nightmare and we can't take her anywhere (haven't been able to since she was an infant). They are both raised the same way as far as public behavior is concerned, but they are like night and day in terms of personality. Sometimes you just can't do anything about it but leave the kid at home.

[GMUBunny]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

And if we acted up, we got one (quiet) warning that we would have to leave if we didn't stop. The one time I threw a fit about no grilled cheese sandwich on the menu, WE ALL LEFT AND WENT HOME. I never acted up in a restaurant again.

We got "Do you need to go to the ladies' room?" That meant something less-than-pleasant was on the way, and we straightened up immediately. People couldn't believe that my parents would bring their 6-year-old into a French restaurant. At the end of the night though, they almost always complimented my parents on how well-behaved we were.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by GMUBunny

We got "Do you need to go to the ladies' room?" That meant something less-than-pleasant was on the way, and we straightened up immediately. People couldn't believe that my parents would bring their 6-year-old into a French restaurant. At the end of the night though, they almost always complimented my parents on how well-behaved we were.

HA. My parents' favorite line was "do we need to go outside?"

I think people should start their kids out at kid-friendly places if they've never dined out before, so they can learn. As they become older/better mannered it's ok to move up. But far too many people don't bother to teach manners and expect them to behave in a fine dining setting. That doesn't happen.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I wouldn't say that the food at any of the high end restaurants I've been to is exactly "healthy."

Agreed. But the commenters are saying stuff like "I want to take my child to a GOOD restaurant, not JUNK FOOD like you want to force them to eat at McDonald's!!" It's kind of a ridiculous argument when they get there and just order a more upscale version of McNuggets. Expensive certainly does not = healthy.

[aephi alum]

If you can afford to drop $32 on spaghetti with butter or tomato sauce for your toddler, you can afford a babysitter. So, get a babysitter, go enjoy a nice adult-only meal, and let your fellow diners do the same.

Small children do not belong at upscale restaurants. Period.

[sceniczip]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

That's a bit over-the-top. There are few realistic alternatives to flying. If you and your 8 month old live in NY and Grandma lives in CA, your opportunities to visit Grandma are severely limited if you can't bring your child on an airplane.

Maybe it's a little unrealistic to expect babies not to cry on flights but that doesn't mean I can't still be annoyed by it. I would totally book an adults-only flight if there was an option. I understand that they're not happy but neither are the people who have to listen to them. I don't blame the parents for it though, I just wish there was a way to get them to be quiet.
And it's not over-the-top to expect a kid to not kick my seat. Sorry that's just poor parenting if they don't tell their kid to stop. I do happen to enjoy flying, I like the environment. Call me crazy but I really do.

[IrishLake]

I have a 4 year old, and 2 year old. both of them are very well behaved 90% of the time. But like all people, they both have their bad days. I can and do take them out to eat at normal, family friendly restaurants. i have taken them out to nicer family friendly restaurants, and they have done fine. we practice exactly what PeppyGPhiB said: MANNERS. My kids get in BIG trouble if they do not say please, thank you, and you're welcome on a regular basis. even my 2 year old son (who is being evaluated for speech therapy tomorrow) knows how to say please an thank you, without being prompted. however, his speech issues also lead to a lot of frustrating tantrums when he cannot communicate what he wants or needs. which means, until that issue is resolved, we'll stick to applebees.

now... right before christmas this past year, my husband and i went out to a very nice Jeff Ruby's restaurant as a surprise. very close tables, very intimate. naturally, the party of 4 seated less than 2 feet away from us was a family of 4, the two kids were probably 6 and 4. they were VERY well behaved. but i still did not feel comfortable, because i felt like i couldnt have a regular adult conversation. i still felt in mommy mode.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

but i still did not feel comfortable, because i felt like i couldnt have a regular adult conversation. i still felt in mommy mode.

True story, I went to a nice restaurant with some girlfriends and the tables were very close. We sat next to a group of what I think were 2 moms and their kids one was like 3 and the other kid was maybe 5. But they were kind of in the corner so we didn't see them.

So, we are having regular conversation. One of my friends was talking about a "non kid friendly topic" and the little girl says "Mommy, that lady over there said "not kid friendly word." [it wasn't the f word or anything, it might have been boobs or something silly] Mom said "That's not a good word for kids to hear."

I thought she was just discouraging he from repeating what other people say, but then she gets up, comes over to us and tells us to "CHANGE THE TOPIC because it is not appropiate for her kids." [I believe her exact wording was "I'd appreciate it if you'd talk about something else because my kids are over here and they don't need to hear that"]

I seriously couldn't believe that someone would ask that, when this is clearly not a kiddie restaurant and you're the only people with kids in this place. I'm not going to alter my conversation (with people I only see once a year, no less) because you brought your children to a more adult establishment.

My friend politely suggested that she grab the hostess and ask for another seat.

[Katmandu]

I have had several nice meals out with my husband (all too rare with our budget and schedule) ruined by misbehaving children and adults who think their antics are "cute". So in my book, leave them home with a sitter unless you are really sure they are going to behave. And you insure they are going to behave by practicing table manners at home.

I think one of the problems is that fewer and fewer families sit down at their own dining room tables to eat a meal with napkins, table settings, glassware, and a candle or two. For many of my friends, their family meals were almost always in the car, or standing up at the kitchen island with everyone warming up something and eating when ever they wanted, and/or sitting in front of the TV in the family room. You can't learn table manners and conversation skills if you only eat at a table at Christmas and Thanksgiving. Maybe it's because I had three boys, but I believe that children need a lot of social practice!

I don't buy the argument that after school activities mean you can't have family meals. But that's one of my priorities, so I'm not unbiased on that topic!

[IrishLake]

KSUViolet.... oh HELL no! your friend is nicer than i would have been. and if i were that mom, i'd either move, or tell my kid we would talk about it at home later.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Nope.

If you can afford to go out to eat at a nice place, you can afford a sitter.

If you want your kids to dine with you, you need to take them somewhere that is more "kid friendly."

Ditto on that.

[Katmandu]

IrishLake, totally OT, but Jeff Ruby knows how to cook a steak for sure. The Precinct....yum. Also Bootsies!

And yes, even if the children are well behaved, when someone else's little ones are sitting practically in your lap, it does change the ambience.