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  #16  
Old 01-29-2009, 12:08 AM
AKA_Monet AKA_Monet is offline
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To the OP: Much of American values of etiquette and protocol comes from the English and French royal courts, just for some historical perspective.

Might I suggest reviewing Rudyard Kipling's "If", another great example of "class", IMHO.

IMHO, the United States does not have a legal "class" structure. Any "class" structure that you observe publicly is not legally based on current government-approved structure.

But, as far as your definition of "class", MysticCat's is probably the most accurate description. I would call that "Character".

And I was always taught that you have a million dollar person and a ten cent person. A million dollar person can put on a ten cent suit and still be a million dollar person. But a 10 cent person puts on a million dollar suit, you still have a 10 cent person...
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  #17  
Old 01-29-2009, 09:21 AM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA_Monet View Post
Might I suggest reviewing Rudyard Kipling's "If", another great example of "class", IMHO.
I'm a big Rudyard Kipling fan, and that's one of my all time favorites. I like it so much that, just in case there's someone who doesn't know it, I'm going to post it here:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream -- and not make dreams your master;
If you can think -- and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
'Or walk with kings -- nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run --
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And -- which is more -- you'll be a Man, my son!

(BTW, the line "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster and treat those two impostors just the same" is written above the players' entrance to center court at Wimbledon.)

And thanks to the fan clubbers.
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  #18  
Old 01-29-2009, 10:44 AM
srmom srmom is offline
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Quote:
Might I suggest reviewing Rudyard Kipling's "If", another great example of "class", IMHO.
Great that you mentioned that poem. And thanks Mystic Cat for reprinting it.

At the boys camp that my kids have gone to during their entire youth, this poem was read over the loud speaker every night at bed time. Hopefully, a little rubbed off over the years!

The conclusion page of their website:

http://www.lajunta.com/clj/conclusion.htm

Last edited by srmom; 01-29-2009 at 10:48 AM.
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  #19  
Old 01-29-2009, 12:14 PM
jojapeach jojapeach is offline
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*putting on my "MC" baseball cap direct from the fan club*

I've never read that before, that that was just wonderful. That poem was so moving and obviously timeless. Thank you, AKA_Money and MC!
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  #20  
Old 01-29-2009, 12:19 PM
IowaMullet IowaMullet is offline
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People who use the word "classy" tend to be anything but.
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  #21  
Old 01-29-2009, 01:33 PM
WaterChild WaterChild is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaMullet View Post
People who use the word "classy" tend to be anything but.
In my opinion, you're anything but.
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  #22  
Old 01-29-2009, 01:48 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srmom View Post
At the boys camp that my kids have gone to during their entire youth, this poem was read over the loud speaker every night at bed time. Hopefully, a little rubbed off over the years!

The conclusion page of their website:

http://www.lajunta.com/clj/conclusion.htm
I really like that (and wish we lived closer to that camp.) And glad you liked the poem, jojapeach.

Okay, I'm getting carried away, but what with Burns Night having been this past Sunday, what should pop up on my iPod at lunch but one of my other favorite poems/songs on this topic of class/character: "Is There for Honest Poverty," better known as "A Man's A Man For A' That." (Aye, I'm enough of a Scots-geek that I have Rabbie Burns songs on my iPod.) This was sung at the State Opening of the Scottish Parliament, with Her Grace Elizabeth, Queen of Scots (aka Her Majesty the Queen), The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh and His Royal Highness The Duke of Rothesay (aka The Prince Charles, Prince of Wales) all in attendance. (Click here to see a nice video of it -- look for Sean Connery.) The cameras didn't show if the royals joined the Parliament in singing the final verse, but I'd like to think that they did.

To try and tie this all a wee bit to Greekdom, Burns (like Kipling, for that matter) was a Freemason, and masonic values clearly influenced the philosophy that underlies the poem.

Is there for honest Poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that;
The coward slave-we pass him by,
We dare be poor for a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Our toils obscure an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The Man's the gowd for a' that.

What though on hamely fare we dine,
Wear hoddin grey, an' a that;
Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine;
A Man's a Man for a' that:
For a' that, and a' that,
Their tinsel show, an' a' that;
The honest man, tho' e'er sae poor,
Is king o' men for a' that.

Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord,
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a cuif for a' that:
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that:
The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
But an honest man's aboon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that.

(If you need a translation from Scots into English, you can find it here. One term I'll point out -- by "coward slave," Burns meant those who allowed themselves to be treated as inferiors rather than equals of the higher classes.)

Okay, no more poems from me today.
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Last edited by MysticCat; 01-29-2009 at 02:30 PM. Reason: To add a link
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  #23  
Old 01-29-2009, 02:16 PM
srmom srmom is offline
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Thanks MC, that was beautiful!
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  #24  
Old 01-29-2009, 03:26 PM
PhoenixAzul PhoenixAzul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat View Post
I really like that (and wish we lived closer to that camp.) And glad you liked the poem, jojapeach.

Okay, I'm getting carried away, but what with Burns Night having been this past Sunday, what should pop up on my iPod at lunch but one of my other favorite poems/songs on this topic of class/character: "Is There for Honest Poverty," better known as "A Man's A Man For A' That." (Aye, I'm enough of a Scots-geek that I have Rabbie Burns songs on my iPod.) This was sung at the State Opening of the Scottish Parliament, with Her Grace Elizabeth, Queen of Scots (aka Her Majesty the Queen), The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh and His Royal Highness The Duke of Rothesay (aka The Prince Charles, Prince of Wales) all in attendance. (Click here to see a nice video of it -- look for Sean Connery.) The cameras didn't show if the royals joined the Parliament in singing the final verse, but I'd like to think that they did.

To try and tie this all a wee bit to Greekdom, Burns (like Kipling, for that matter) was a Freemason, and masonic values clearly influenced the philosophy that underlies the poem.

Is there for honest Poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that;
The coward slave-we pass him by,
We dare be poor for a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Our toils obscure an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The Man's the gowd for a' that.

What though on hamely fare we dine,
Wear hoddin grey, an' a that;
Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine;
A Man's a Man for a' that:
For a' that, and a' that,
Their tinsel show, an' a' that;
The honest man, tho' e'er sae poor,
Is king o' men for a' that.

Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord,
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a cuif for a' that:
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that:
The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
But an honest man's aboon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that.

(If you need a translation from Scots into English, you can find it here. One term I'll point out -- by "coward slave," Burns meant those who allowed themselves to be treated as inferiors rather than equals of the higher classes.)

Okay, no more poems from me today.
hehe,
"Fair fie ye honest sonsie face...

Hope you had a great Burns Night. I couldn't get a haggis imported in time/legally, so we just had neeps and tatties and cockaleekie soup. mmm.
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  #25  
Old 01-29-2009, 03:56 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixAzul View Post
hehe,
"Fair fie ye honest sonsie face...

Hope you had a great Burns Night. I couldn't get a haggis imported in time/legally, so we just had neeps and tatties and cockaleekie soup. mmm.
You did better than I did, I'm afraid. We had symphony tickets for Sunday and couldn't do a Burns Supper in addition, nor had I gotten a haggis. I had to content myself with simple porridge -- I haven't even had time lately to make oatcakes, shortbread or any of my other standard Scots fare.
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  #26  
Old 07-01-2016, 07:51 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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I just came across this thread and I love it! I want all my students to read it!

(Mystic Cat, one of my son-in-law is from Scotland. He keeps threatening to bring us a haggis and we fear that he'll do just that after his visit home next month.)
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  #27  
Old 07-01-2016, 08:25 AM
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honeychile honeychile is offline
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I'm not sure how I missed this thread, but it seems to be one that most certainly NOT be missed! Thank you, carnation, for the bump.

My Jamestown cousin is the epitome of class and character, and I am proudly one of the earlier members of his GC fanclub!
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  #28  
Old 07-01-2016, 10:10 AM
DZ_Turtle86 DZ_Turtle86 is offline
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There are so many threads that I wish had a "Where are they now?" conclusion.
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  #29  
Old 07-01-2016, 03:35 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Of course I'm that person who read this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by traditionsf View Post
I believe that I have it in me and that I only need proper instruction. But I am curious as to the opinions of people on this forum. Essentially I am asking, "can class be learned? or is it something you either have or don't"
... and immediately thought of this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ENgJZlmgI6U

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  #30  
Old 07-01-2016, 07:18 PM
elicampbell elicampbell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 View Post
Of course I'm that person who read this...



... and immediately thought of this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ENgJZlmgI6U

I thought of this : https://youtu.be/kEDvlSAMhQU
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