eBay

[33girl]

Looking at the today’s topics I noticed Barbara’s entry about a DST badge on eBay. I had seen something on a website awhile ago that Panhel and IFC were going to sue eBay for selling badges since most of them are copyrighted. Did anyone else hear this?

[kmullini]

Yes, I've heard several stories of different GLOs where Ebay was doing that. I think that is soo wrong, but as I understand it theres not much that National's or anyone can do legally to stop it.

Kevin Mullinix
Beta Theta Pi

[PenguinTrax]

What is happening is this, eBay has provided those GLO's that are interested with a form, Notice of Infringement, that must be submitted to eBay every time a badge goes up for auction on the site. This is in response to the letter that the NPC sent to eBay regarding the fact that people cannot sell NPC member badges because they are techinically property of the Fraternity.

If your group doesn't know about this, I would contact eBay or the NPC delegate for your Fraternity and ask that follow-up occur.

Barbara

[SilverTurtle]

You have got to be kidding me? Fraternities + sororities actually have time to sue people for selling stuff? What if you saw some kind of badge or other emblem from your GLO, especially one that maybe isn't around anymore, or is really old or rare, for sale? Would you

• [A]ignore it
  [B]hurry and call someone- lets sue eBay!
  [c]bid on it yourelf

Ok, ok.. i understand that badges have very significant meaning to each unique GLO. And there are certain things that you *should* or *shouldn't* have. Most of the people selling them probably don't know much about them, or they wouldn't be auctioning them off in the 1st place. Let's not get petty.

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

Copyright infringement happens when someone makes an unauthorized copy of a work which is indeed copyrighted. This is a fact, regardless of whether or not the party who made the copy sells, gives it away for free, etc.

The owner of a copyrighted work only has control over authorized copies of the work until the time of the first sale of that particular item ("the distribution right"). After that item is first purchased, the copyright holder no longer has any say about how the item is further distributed.

For more details about this see http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/scope.html

With regards to selling GLO memorabilia on ebay or thru other means, there is nothing legally wrong with that. The only time any group would have a claim is if some party were selling unauthorized copies - or if there was unauthorized (non licensed) use of the fraternities trademarked name/symbols. I bet that anyone could go to a greek store on the internet (offline as well) and purchase any items they want, with any organization's letters on them.

My guess would be that most of the older memorabilia being sold were obtained at estate auctions, etc.

Some people may feel that it is not ethical for people "in the know" to sell these types of items, but it is definitely not illegal to do so.

[PenguinTrax]

Actually, for my Fraternity it is illegal in a sense. We sign an agreement that acknowledges that our badge is property of the Fraternity, not the individual, and all we are doing is leasing it. At death, the badge is supposed to be returned to the Fraternity OR given to a legacy or other ZTA for their use. Selling the badges is against our national policy.

Noone is talking about suing people that are selling these badges. All we are doing is getting eBay to acknowledge the fact that the people selling these badges do not have a right to do so. If enough Infringement notices come into eBay, they will no longer allow the badges to be sold. Granted, there has been a active pin-trading/selling community for years that hasn't been policed, however, this public auctioning of items that we know to be 'ours', is wrong.

[mgdzkm433]

For both organizations that I am a member, my badges are to be returned to nationals, given to a legacy, or I am to be burried with them (but permission from nationals for the latter must be obtained). That's all I know.

------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

I guess this is where the grey area of the law shows itself. Actually, it may not be all that grey, but I am not a legal professional so I do not know.

Do the people selling these badges have the right to do so? It depends...

If an antique dealer were to purchase items from an estate auction which included a badge - Does the contract which the deceased had with respect to treatment of that badge apply to the antique dealer? Without the dealer even knowing about it or signing such an agreement? I do not believe contracts are transferrable in such a manner.

It is the duty of the estate to carry out the obligations of the deceased. And it is the duty of the owner of an item to collect that item from an estate when the time comes. In order for an owner/fraternity to collect such items from an estate, the simple existence of such agreements would not be enough to prove ownership - the fraternity would need to show an agreement/contract which is signed by the deceased - if that contract is not found or no longer exists... then there is no contract at all. And without a contract showing ownership over a badge by the fraternity (signed by the deceased) they have no claim... and possession is 9/10ths of the law...

If neither of these parties does their part, it is definitely NOT the duty of the purchaser (antique dealer) to carry out the obligations of these other parties. If anything, the antique dealer is providing a service by recovering & making available for purchase a 70 year old antique/collectible badge - the purchase price repays the dealer for their effors of recovering the item. Would you rather the antique dealer melt it down and turn it into a fishing weight?


Another example: Let's say during the process of cleaning out a home after an estate sale, the badge is disposed of (thrown in the trash) - and is later somehow found by a treasure hunter (or whoever)... does this contract between the deceased & the fraternity magically apply to the new owner who found the item discarded/abandoned in the trash?

If the contract does not apply, then how can anyone say this person who found the badge cannot sell it on ebay?