Shutter Fraternities for Young Women's Good

[AnotherKD]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read

From the Wall Street Journal. This woman is talking about, first, a story of sexual assault on someone else. Then, she talks about the "slur-chanting fraternity men" that are now on campus deprives women of an equal opportunity to education.

"I was a transfer student, and so my new friends had already been at the university two years and were in possession of valuable information, much of it learned the hard way: I was never, ever to go upstairs at a fraternity house. To do so was to invite assault. That I could be raped by a fellow student and that the event would somehow be my fault was an idea I found alarming and intimidating.

My fourth night at school, I went with some friends to Rugby Road, where the fraternity houses are located. They are built of the same Jeffersonian architecture as the rest of the campus. At once august and moldering, they seemed sinister, to stand for male power at its most malevolent and institutionally condoned. I remember standing there thinking I'd made a terrible mistake. It wasn't worth it, I decided. The next day I withdrew from the university."

I find that part that I quoted to be ridiculous. I kind of find the whole article to be inflammatory. Yes, a few people cast a negative light on the Greek System throughout the country, but this seems super reactionary.

[agzg]

Shutting down fraternities would not be an effective way to address rape culture on campus or anywhere else.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by agzg

Shutting down fraternities would not be an effective way to address rape culture on campus or anywhere else.

My exact thought.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by agzg

Shutting down fraternities would not be an effective way to address rape culture on campus or anywhere else.

This. But also, universities need to do a better job of shutting shit down when it happens. The only thing that made the Yale fraternity different than the other students was the fact they were chanting it in public. Yeah, that makes campus incredibly hostile to women, and I'm thrilled the women at Yale stood up and didn't back down about it from what I've seen.

But like you said in a later post, this whole "handling sexual assault cases internally" bullshit has got to end.

Personally, as important as women's safety lectures are, I'd like to see more: Here is what rape is, it is not ok, ever. Here is what consent is, you must have this or it is rape.

Blah blah stop trying to protect our daughters and instead raise our sons not to be rapists.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

This. But also, universities need to do a better job of shutting shit down when it happens. The only thing that made the Yale fraternity different than the other students was the fact they were chanting it in public. Yeah, that makes campus incredibly hostile to women, and I'm thrilled the women at Yale stood up and didn't back down about it from what I've seen.

But like you said in a later post, this whole "handling sexual assault cases internally" bullshit has got to end.

Personally, as important as women's safety lectures are, I'd like to see more: Here is what rape is, it is not ok, ever. Here is what consent is, you must have this or it is rape.

Blah blah stop trying to protect our daughters and instead raise our sons not to be rapists.

Amen to the bolded.

I haven't read any piece by this author before, but she sounds batshit crazy in this one.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But like you said in a later post, this whole "handling sexual assault cases internally" bullshit has got to end.

Personally, as important as women's safety lectures are, I'd like to see more: Here is what rape is, it is not ok, ever. Here is what consent is, you must have this or it is rape.

About 15 years ago, there was a major controversy at my undergrad because of a sexual assault. He said it was consensual, she couldn't remember. The U tried to handle it internally and failed. He sued the school and they all ended up settling for millions of dollars. (I'm simplifying it a lot here but it just goes to how the "internal handling" can backfire for the accused as well as the accuser.)

One result of that whole mess is that we have excellent sexual assault awareness seminars during orientation, and it's pretty much how you described it. I know that the Greeks all had to have additional training (this could have been nationally mandated), as did any organization that wanted to host a party on-campus.

[33girl]

I'd rather see a greater focus on SAFETY, period, rather than on rape. Doing the latter just puts up barriers between men and women and puts women into the eternal victim role. It's not wise to go alone someplace with ANYONE you barely know. I mean, you never know when a chick is going to go Single White Female on you. Funny reference, but I sincerely mean it. Ditto for men - going somewhere with an unknown man OR woman. Someone doesn't have to have half a foot & 200 lbs on you to do things to you (after drugging you) that will mess you up.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I'd rather see a greater focus on SAFETY, period, rather than on rape. Doing the latter just puts up barriers between men and women and puts women into the eternal victim role. It's not wise to go alone someplace with ANYONE you barely know. I mean, you never know when a chick is going to go Single White Female on you. Funny reference, but I sincerely mean it. Ditto for men - going somewhere with an unknown man OR woman. Someone doesn't have to have half a foot & 200 lbs on you to do things to you (after drugging you) that will mess you up.

Most rape isn't stranger rape. Placing the focus on safety puts the responsibility on the victim. "Well why was she with him, she should have known better."

And finally, DISCUSSING RAPE DOES NOT DRIVE A WEDGE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, RAPE DRIVES A WEDGE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN.

Wanted to make that perfectly clear.



/yes, victims come from all genders, but women are the primary victims and the most affected by rape. They are also affected by the rape culture that started this thread in a way that most men are not.

ETA some wiki stats:

In reality, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 38% of victims were raped by a friend or acquaintance, 28% by "an intimate" and 7% by another relative, and 26% were committed by a stranger to the victim. About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim's own home

Do we address 1/4 of rapes by focusing on strangers, or 100% of rapes by focusing on consent, and punishing offenders rather than letting them off with a boys will be boys.

Contrary to widespread belief, rape outdoors is rare. Over two thirds of all rapes occur in someone's home. 30.9% occur in the perpetrators' homes, 26.6% in the victims' homes and 10.1% in homes shared by the victim and perpetrator. 7.2% occur at parties, 7.2% in vehicles, 3.6% outdoors and 2.2% in bars.

If 37-40% of the time you're at home, does that really count as 'going somewhere' with someone you don't know?

U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999) estimated that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, with 99% of the offenders being male.

As I said, the wedge was already driven. Not talking about it is just playing pretend.

College Campuses and Rape

43% of college men admit using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman’s protest; using physical aggression; and forcing intercourse; 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraint to force a woman to have sex.
34% of completed rapes and 45% of attempted rapes take place on campus. Almost 60% of the completed campus rapes that take place on campus occur in the victim's residence, 31% occur in another residence, and 10% occur in a fraternity.
3/4 of off-campus rapes and 7/8 of on-campus rapes involved perpetrators who were known to the victims.
78% of the men identified (as rapists) were an acquaintance, friend or boyfriend of the victims.

We need to be teaching men about consent, teaching them not to be rapists, and punishing them when it happens.

[knight_shadow]

Closing fraternities is obviously the answer. No non-Greek men have ever assualted women on campus.

Wait. Scratch that. We also need to ban men from being in schools period. Assaults never happen outside of the university bubble.

Wait.

[AGD1978]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Closing fraternities is obviously the answer. No non-Greek men have ever assualted women on campus.

Wait. Scratch that. We also need to ban men from being in schools period. Assaults never happen outside of the university bubble.

Wait.

This.

And she was frightened into withdrawing from school by the mere sight of a fraternity house? Really? Architecture, as a general thing, doesn't usually frighten people that badly. Maybe it wasn't actually the house that did her in, but the landscaping. The shrubberies.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by agzg

As an aside, it irks me that colleges are trying to handle sexual assault themselves, rather than turning over such cases when they are reported to the police.

No violent crime should be handled "in house."

Which brings us back to the last few posts of this thread: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=119237

.. which demonstrates exactly what can happen when this is attempted.

Originally Posted by AGD1978

This.

And she was frightened into withdrawing from school by the mere sight of a fraternity house? Really? Architecture, as a general thing, doesn't usually frighten people that badly. Maybe it wasn't actually the house that did her in, but the landscaping. The shrubberies.

LOL.

[AnchorAlum]

Originally Posted by AGD1978

This.

And she was frightened into withdrawing from school by the mere sight of a fraternity house? Really? Architecture, as a general thing, doesn't usually frighten people that badly. Maybe it wasn't actually the house that did her in, but the landscaping. The shrubberies.

Her article was almost sad. It sounds as though she has a phobia that will absolutely limit her for the rest of her life.

I have news for her. Men live in the real world. If she wants to live there as well, she better get over her issues.

HEY, Caitlin. You and others who have this apparent struggle about fearing men need to "man up" (pun intended) and learn that college boys and yes, grown men, live through their penises. Don't ever go upstairs at a frat house unless its with your established boyfriend who you use for sex, don't make a fool of yourself by being the queen of kegstands, don't be STUPID, and Mr. Penis will have to sit in his room and go fap fap fap all by himself.

Yes, hell yes, I am a lot older than many of you. But here's the flash, girlies. Mr. Penis is an ancient god, one who lives through the ages.

They don't care what she is. They're trying to get laid. Is this a revelation in 2011?

Okay. That's my weekly rant. Carry on.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlum

...learn that college boys and yes, grown men, live through their penises. Don't ever go upstairs at a frat house unless its with your established boyfriend who you use for sex, don't make a fool of yourself by being the queen of kegstands, don't be STUPID, and Mr. Penis will have to sit in his room and go fap fap fap all by himself.

Yes, hell yes, I am a lot older than many of you. But here's the flash, girlies. Mr. Penis is an ancient god, one who lives through the ages.

They don't care what she is. They're trying to get laid. Is this a revelation in 2011?

With all due respect, what in the hell is this post about?

I wanted you to be sarcastic but I think you're serious. Beliefs like yours are exactly why "boys will be boys" persists.

[AnchorAlum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

With all due respect, what in the hell is this post about?

I wanted you to be sarcastic but I think you're serious. Beliefs like yours are exactly why "boys will be boys" persists.

Where is the sarcastic emoticon? I don't see one that is capable of conveying the correct level I was trying to express. So your use of the term "beliefs" reveals your mistaken interpretation.

There was an enormous amount of sarcasm in my post....and yes,

there was a lot in there to slam on "boys".


Rape is an ugly and heinous crime. Drugging women should NOT be an easy thing to accomplish in a room full of informed and aware females, and women have to know this and be smarter than men.

Because men who drug and then rape women are admitting that they aren't good enough to get a woman in bed any other way. I'm just saying that we're smarter than that. Or should be.

[Elephant Walk]

If she wants to get rid of that, she should probably close the basketball teams.