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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


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  #1  
Old 05-22-2016, 04:02 PM
robinseggblue robinseggblue is offline
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University Of Wisconsin Suspends SAE

I'm surprised their charter didn't get pulled. This behavior is deplorable.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnash...xVY#.foly5LAX3

http://gawker.com/university-of-wisc...kin-1777655159

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2644044
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  #2  
Old 05-22-2016, 04:35 PM
robinseggblue robinseggblue is offline
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I'm not that familiar with what diversity training is but I'm wondering whether that will have any impact on a toxic culture within an organization. Is attending forums and talks (what I'm assuming this training is) really going to change the hearts and minds of these young men?

Is there a better way to make sure that things like this don't happen in Greek Life in the future?

Those are things I'm wondering.
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  #3  
Old 05-22-2016, 05:42 PM
Cheerio Cheerio is offline
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Students sometimes perform tasks for instant gratification without knowing and understanding consequences. Their minds focus on the task itself: does it "bring laughs or relief from boredom", not "do other people plan on expanding what is being said or done into a national debate".

It's called a process of growing up. Growing up used to be done more privately before the instant social mediazation of the world.
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  #4  
Old 05-23-2016, 10:03 PM
navane navane is offline
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I can't even begin to comprehend this right now. On what planet did these members think that this would be OK? Even if they were confused about acceptable use of certain words, then their confusion should have been set straight the first time the complainant told them that the N-word was not OK.

Worse yet, they show a complete lack of respect for the complainant as a brother and a human being by continuing the offensive behavior even after he asked them to stop.

Even worse than that, their excuse for that is "Well, the gay guy doesn't complain when we use gay slurs, so it's all good."

This situation makes me feel sad.
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  #5  
Old 05-24-2016, 12:37 AM
NWguy NWguy is offline
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Interestingly, the SAE chapter at the University of Washington was investigated for a similar problem just last year.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...-frat-members/
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  #6  
Old 05-24-2016, 01:29 PM
BlueCarnation BlueCarnation is offline
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There is an increased awareness at Wisconsin right now of incidents like this. Wisconsin is not a diverse state or campus, and we are struggling with many problems like this one. It is a campus-wide issue.

Sadly, one of this chapter's brothers died over the weekend. I don't know what happened, but by all accounts he was beloved by the chapter, the Greek System, his teachers, and all who knew him. While the chapter may have a lot of work to do, and I'm not condoning any poor behavior, it's a sad time for them and our campus.
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  #7  
Old 05-25-2016, 08:55 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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The story here is that these men had every opportunity to simply be decent human beings to their brothers. For so long as our memberships are made up primarily of men who come from non-diverse backgrounds, we're going to continue to have these issues. The benefits of being compelled to diversity training are questionable.

But the fact is, you can't educate kids in 6 months of pledging to change their 18 years of prior upbringing--and in SAE's case, they've even banned pledging, so you pretty much find these kids as you recruit them and you have no opportunity to weed out the bad apples.

All of that said, here's a case where they had a member who apparently exhausted every internal remedy at his disposal and was still left with a pretty hostile environment. That's some epic douchebaggery.

I'm not really surprised the charter wasn't pulled. There are probably millions of dollars invested in that chapter facility, alumni have their names on the notes, the national organization is going to protect those alumni. The Oklahoma SAE house being closed was much easier because apparently, the school owned the property, which is now the office of Diversity and Inclusion.
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  #8  
Old 05-25-2016, 10:19 AM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
For so long as our memberships are made up primarily of men who come from non-diverse backgrounds, we're going to continue to have these issues. The benefits of being compelled to diversity training are questionable.
Maybe we should all do a better job of screening for douchebags during recruitment and pledging.
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  #9  
Old 05-25-2016, 01:05 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby View Post
Maybe we should all do a better job of screening for douchebags during recruitment and pledging.
While I wish I could agree, that is a very hard thing to get done.

What should and must be done, is expell them asap. Contact the National H Q to make them aware of the situation and ask for guidance if the chapter feels they cannot handle internally and needs help! It is better to get rid of a few bad apples rather than lose the whole Chapter. That benefits no one.
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  #10  
Old 05-25-2016, 01:49 PM
NWguy NWguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
But the fact is, you can't educate kids in 6 months of pledging to change their 18 years of prior upbringing--and in SAE's case, they've even banned pledging, so you pretty much find these kids as you recruit them and you have no opportunity to weed out the bad apples.

Kevin, doesn't SAE have an expedited Initiation? I seem to recall they initiate their members within a few weeks of becoming new members, or maybe it's another fraternity I'm thinking of.
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  #11  
Old 05-25-2016, 02:33 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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As far as I know, you're correct. SAE doesn't have any pledging process. These guys are full members within a very short period of time after signing their bid cards. Expecting that you can weed out all of the bad apples prior to that point is not realistic, and as those within this lane know well, expelling initiated members is no simple task (at least in my fraternity, I'm assuming SAE also probably has a fairly extensive, undergrad driven process for expulsion of members).

As long as we have kids coming from non-diverse backgrounds and we are given little to no opportunity to weeding them out, we're going to have kids which say and do stupid things. It's how our chapters respond which makes all of the difference. In Wisconsin's case, from this side of the story (I guarantee you there's at least one other side to this thing, probably several sides) that the member exhausted internal remedies and felt he needed to go to the school for help. That he didn't know of or choose to utilize internal SAE options going above the chapter level (e.g., going to nationals or alumni advisers [or that he did that and got no help] would be additionally troubling.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2016, 02:37 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Earp View Post
While I wish I could agree, that is a very hard thing to get done.

What should and must be done, is expell them asap. Contact the National H Q to make them aware of the situation and ask for guidance if the chapter feels they cannot handle internally and needs help! It is better to get rid of a few bad apples rather than lose the whole Chapter. That benefits no one.
This is where alumni involvement plays a key role. If this chapter has advisers who are plugged in, who undergrad members can all bring these sorts of issues to if leadership isn't managing things, then unless those alumni are also terrible people (I assume they are not), then this never becomes a national headline.

If we as alumni want our chapters to be successful, we need to invest enough face-time with the chapter to where at a minimum, members know that if things get out of hand, they can contact you directly. I would think this would be especially true for SAE now since with their no longer having any sort of pledging or associate membership, they have no opportunity to weed out bad potential members until it's really too late.
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2016, 03:41 PM
LaneSig LaneSig is offline
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Kevin, doesn't SAE have an expedited Initiation? I seem to recall they initiate their members within a few weeks of becoming new members, or maybe it's another fraternity I'm thinking of.
SAE new members must be initiated within 96 hours of receiving their bids.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2016, 04:16 PM
NWguy NWguy is offline
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Originally Posted by LaneSig View Post
SAE new members must be initiated within 96 hours of receiving their bids.
Wow, that is quick.
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2016, 04:56 PM
NWguy NWguy is offline
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This particular issue with race has now surfaced at three SAE chapters - that I'm aware of - in two years, Oklahoma, Wisconsin and Washington. The Washington chapter remains active, but the matter was investigated.

I read a Buzzfeed article that detailed a similar issue at Oklahoma State in 1987 involving the SAE chapter there hosting a "Plantation Ball". The same article mentions another incident, in 1992, at Texas A&M, where the SAE chapter there hosted a "jungle party".

I wonder if SAE's national office has been pro-active in educating and raising awareness of the matter to their chapters. This is stuff that shouldn't be happening in the first place, but I wonder if new members, as well as active members, understand why they shouldn't be doing it, and what the consequences are if they do.

Buzzfeed article link: https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnash...kr#.skvVZddPrv
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