Gamma Phi Beta University of North Dakota Punished for Showing School Pride

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's 2014. Move if you don't like it.

You're an idiot. I'm just gonna repost this:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Seriously? THIS is your solution? Just move? Wow.

I'm pretty sure if we could all leave our problems behind and move to this utopia you seem to think exists, we would.

[DrPhil]

I know some of you are primarily concerned with the school's punishment of this sorority chapter. But, something rubs me the wrong way about this thread concluding with "it sucks to not have a mascot" and "the school should've hurried and gotten a new mascot."

LOL. Cry me a river. Is that really the crux of all of this? Okay.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I know some of you are primarily concerned with the school's punishment of this sorority chapter. But, something rubs me the wrong way about this thread concluding with "it sucks to not have a mascot" and "the school should've hurried and gotten a new mascot."

LOL. Cry me a river. Is that really the crux of all of this? Okay.

My point is that I don't see what was written on the sign deserves anyone being sent to sensitivity training. The sign said what the facts are: they don't have a mascot, but they're proud of their team. They didn't make a culturally inappropriate reference or call for bringing back the mascot. Yes, no mascot isn't the end of the world.

I understand, appreciate, and agree with your points about cultural appropriation. That stuff ain't cool. I just don't understand how saying what they said is culturally insensitive. The cowboys and Indians party the article said the chapter hosted 6 years ago, sure. The sign, no.

[DrPhil]

I interpret “you can take away our mascot but you can’t take away our PRIDE" as a "fuck you" to the people who opposed the mascot and "fuck you" to the school for going along with it.

No, I don't believe in the concept of sensitivity training and diversity training. Those are dumb.

I do believe in that chapter being told the different interpretations of that sign. There are different interpretations. Plain and simple. Should they have been punished? Maybe--I wasn't there to know if there was a back-and-forth.

If there was a group of men on that campus who used a "Boobs and Buttocks" logo for their events and there was protest to get the logo removed, I'm sure the protesters wouldn't be thrilled if that group created a "you can take away our logo but you can't take away our coolness" poster. It would probably be interpreted as tongue-in-cheek and a "fuck you".

ETA: If the sorority's sign said "we did away with that mascot but we didn't do away with our PRIDE" there may not have been a problem. It may have seemed more like the chapter was in agreement with getting rid of the mascot rather than speaking out against the naysayers and the school. If the sorority wanted to protest or encourage discussion they had plenty of time to do that before now and this isn't the way to go about it.

[amIblue?]

You think they serve Kumbaya Kola at sensitivity training? Lol.

I don't know enough about the campus culture to know if this was an eff you to the school for getting rid if the Sioux mascot or an eff you to the school because there is no mascot. I interpreted it as the latter because that would be what I would find most annoying as a college aged person and because it seemed from my read of the article that a majority of the people voted in favor of the change.

[DrPhil]

Mango flavored.

Either way, an eff you to the school is totally unnecessary and the chapter probably deserved to be reprimanded. Grow the hell up, cry baby college students, and find something else to give a damn about. Getting rid of a mascot that some people deemed offensive is worth not having a mascot for a while. Time keeps on slippin' into the future.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well, that makes the banner make much more sense. They're not saying they want the Sioux mascot back, they're saying not having a mascot at all is hella lame. Schools are so pissy when you inform them they're being idiotic. They should have just had an interim mascot and then if people ended up liking it, make it permanent.

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

I personally think this situation could have been avoided if they'd picked a new mascot right away. Have a naming contest like other schools have done, and move on. Instead of initiating a 3 year "cooling off" period, when current students could be mad they don't have a mascot to cheer on for the duration of their college years, turn it into a positive situation with an educational awareness campaign, followed by a positive, fun, spirited campaign to select and roll out a new mascot.

Exactly, to both. Leaving students in limbo for 3 years just doesn't help anything, seems to me.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I know some of you are primarily concerned with the school's punishment of this sorority chapter. But, something rubs me the wrong way about this thread concluding with "it sucks to not have a mascot" and "the school should've hurried and gotten a new mascot."

LOL. Cry me a river. Is that really the crux of all of this? Okay.

Ha! No, it's hardly the crux. Just an interesting side story.

But I do have some trouble with the school's punishment. This is a public university punishing students for speech. I think that's a problem.

But I do think I want to try some of that Kumbaya Kola. Does it come in flavors other than mango?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Exactly, to both. Leaving students in limbo for 3 years just doesn't help anything, seems to me.

Then let's vote on a new mascot:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

But I do think I want to try some of that Kumbaya Kola. Does it come in flavors other than mango?

Every flavor.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

The situation with the Washington Redskins also irks me...you know they will eventually cave and change that obviously offensive name. The sooner the better...just get it done and move on!

Not arguing about the offensiveness of the Washington Redskins name or whether it should be changed, but the history of that particular team name (and its historical counterpart, the Atlanta Braves) really does play into much bigger themes about how majority American culture has used American Indians and "Indianness" as a way of defining "Americanness," starting with the Boston Tea Party.

And I'll have lime, Dr. Phil. Thank you very much!

[DrPhil]

Lime is a good choice.

Interesting new article. I would like to read the actual study:
http://t.foxsports.msn.com/mlb/study...ons-of-dollars

[AOII Angel]

My school went through the same thing. We were the NLU Indians complete with a big nosed mascot Indian "Big Chief" that was famous for beating up the NSU Devil in 1992. Still makes the top 10 lists of mascot fights. LOL. He suddenly disappeared around 1994 then in 1999 we were renamed the ULM Warhawks. There are still alumni who won't claim the school, mostly for the change to ULM, some for the change to Warhawks. I called them the Chickenhawks for a long time. Over time, the change set in and we acclimated. The current students are very invested in the Warhawks identity, probably more so than we ever were in the Indian persona.

[Low D Flat]

I know some of you are primarily concerned with the school's punishment of this sorority chapter.

It's not what I'm primarily concerned with in real life. However, it's the topic of the original post in the thread, which is in the chapter risk management section of Greekchat, so it was my concern in the thread.

The UND mascot issue became a done deal following the referendum. Even boosters of Indian mascots would probably agree that a public university shouldn't keep one if the voters of the state want to boot it. So I don't see much to discuss regarding UND, except for the sorority (arguably) voicing disagreement with the voters. As for the Redskins, Illini, etc., those are live issues with lots to talk about. My take is that there is room for debate regarding teams named after specific tribes when the tribal leadership supports them, though I would rather get rid of them, but that slurs like Redskins and caricatures like Chief Wahoo are indefensible and should have been put to rest decades ago. Honestly, I can't believe that the word "Redskins" made it past the 1970s. It ought to be unprintable, not plastered all over the national news in our capital.

[DubaiSis]

That it is our nation's capital REALLY makes it indefensible. If it was in some little backwater town in the middle of nowhere we could at least blame it on the residents being uneducated boobs. It wouldn't make it ok, but we could at least accept that the 20 people in town don't understand the global significance of words.

[IndeDad]

The UND mascot is/was a complicated issue. Many feel that the NCAA were outsiders with unwanted and unneeded influence.

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/10298/

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...ues-ncaa-60972

Further complicating matters is the Ralph Engelstad Arena which is arguably one of the most elegant hockey arenas ever. It's named after the former UND hockey player that donated $100M for arena construction.

http://www.constructionequipmentguid...tribution/739/

The rumor was that the university had difficulty spending the specified amount on the arena and when they consulted the donor he told them to figure out how to spend it. As a result, all concourse floors are granite, and every seat in the arena is leather with cherry wood armrests.

The mascot issue was in early stages when the arena was constructed so there are an intentionally large number of Fighting Sioux logos in the arena. Many of the logos would be very difficult to remove or replace. The NCAA had some signs and logos removed but very many will stay indefinitely.



http://www.uscho.com/2012/09/27/ncaa...gelstad-arena/

Some have claimed that the donation agreement was drafted such that removal of the logos required demolition of the facility. It is probably urban legend, but who knows? It could explain the NCAA giving in so easily on that point.

A cooling off period for a mascot change? Maybe a few decades or so. I don't expect the university to search for a new mascot anytime soon. For now, my sense is that there is pride in not having an official mascot.

If you could go back in time to when the mascot was chosen… But, these are complicated issues to resolve later. We have family in the area and had the chance to hear about this matter very often for many years.