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04-26-2014, 09:51 AM
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I'm just glad Joffrey is dead. His character was downright evil.
What gets me is that the internet is in an uproar over the rape scene with Jamie and Cersei.
Okay, I'm not advocating rape at all, but come on people, how demented is it that Jamie and Cersei, who are BROTHER AND SISTER are having consexual sex and reproducing in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!
The scene in the novel had them having sex, at their sons body (as in the show). The writers changed it from consensual to nonconsensual, either way it would have been demented. Their whole relationship is demented.
What I've read is that people are upset that he raped her (which I get) but the relationship is incest, how is that okay in general. Eww. I don't get it.
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04-26-2014, 02:42 PM
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You don't understand the difference between consensual and non-consensual sex?
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04-26-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby
You don't understand the difference between consensual and non-consensual sex?
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Maybe you need to reread what I said.
I find it IRONIC that people are up in arms over Jamie's rape of Cersei when the relationship is INCESTUOUS in the first damn place!!!!!!
I find their while relationship disturbing and now that he has raped her, even more disturbing. But I never once said that he didn't rape her, don't put words into my mouth. I do know the difference between consensual and nonconsensual.
I have a feeling that if the writers had done what the book called for, which was consensual sex at the site of their dead son's body, that no one would be pitching a fit.
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but the capacity to act despite our fears" John McCain
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
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04-26-2014, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASUADPi
I'm just glad Joffrey is dead. His character was downright evil.
What gets me is that the internet is in an uproar over the rape scene with Jamie and Cersei.
Okay, I'm not advocating rape at all, but come on people, how demented is it that Jamie and Cersei, who are BROTHER AND SISTER are having consexual sex and reproducing in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!
The scene in the novel had them having sex, at their sons body (as in the show). The writers changed it from consensual to nonconsensual, either way it would have been demented. Their whole relationship is demented.
What I've read is that people are upset that he raped her (which I get) but the relationship is incest, how is that okay in general. Eww. I don't get it.
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It changes who Jaime is in a really fundamental way. Jaime loves Cersei in a deep and abiding way. He loves her so much that he betrays his oath as Kingsguard to sleep with the Queen and father her children. He throws a child out of a window to protect he and their children. (She could have been charged with treason and executed for trying to pass her illegitimate children off as the King's children.) He will do anything for her. He would not hurt her, not like that.
Jaime is also a character that hates rape. He hates Robert because Robert rapes Cersei. He protects Brienne from being raped. He's terrified of being raped himself. Jaime wouldn't rape someone.
Jaime's stories in the book moves from being a complete villain to being something less of a villain. Putting a rape in the middle of that character arc derails it.
Last edited by KDCat; 04-26-2014 at 04:25 PM.
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04-26-2014, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASUADPi
Maybe you need to reread what I said.
I find it IRONIC that people are up in arms over Jamie's rape of Cersei when the relationship is INCESTUOUS in the first damn place!!!!!!
I find their while relationship disturbing and now that he has raped her, even more disturbing. But I never once said that he didn't rape her, don't put words into my mouth. I do know the difference between consensual and nonconsensual.
I have a feeling that if the writers had done what the book called for, which was consensual sex at the site of their dead son's body, that no one would be pitching a fit.
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You are correct. I would not be upset about consensual sex. Depicting gratuitous violence against women on a popular television show is not okay.
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04-26-2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDCat
It changes who Jaime is in a really fundamental way. Jaime loves Cersei in a deep and abiding way. He loves her so much that he betrays his oath as Kingsguard to sleep with the Queen and father her children. He throws a child out of a window to protect he and their children. (She could have been charged with treason and executed for trying to pass her illegitimate children off as the King's children.) He will do anything for her. He would not hurt her, not like that.
Jaime is also a character that hates rape. He hates Robert because Robert rapes Cersei. He protects Brienne from being raped. He's terrified of being raped himself. Jaime wouldn't rape someone.
Jaime's stories in the book moves from being a complete villain to being something less of a villain. Putting a rape in the middle of that character arc derails it.
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I haven't read the books so all my character knowledge is purely from the shows (which lets face it isn't going to be as thorough as the novels).
I'm now wondering how they (the writers) are going to attempt to redeem him (to the fans).
I guess I can now see why the fans are up in arms over what the writers did. It was basically character assassination.
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but the capacity to act despite our fears" John McCain
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
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04-26-2014, 04:57 PM
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The larger problem is that they are not going to address it as though it was a rape. The director is on record saying it was not rape. It is not okay to perpetuate the idea that if a woman says no, you can just keep going and eventually she will like it. They showed Jamie rape a woman on camera, and all indicators is that they are going to continue to treat his character as a fundamentally good guy in the process of redemption.
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04-26-2014, 05:14 PM
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I saw comments online somewhere where one of the people attached to the show says NOW that they created the scene to show Cersei protesting at first but that she gave in to it because she realized how much she missed Jaime. They are also now saying the edit didn't truly show their intentions.
Not buying it...backlash makes people say strange things.
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04-27-2014, 11:39 AM
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Meh. As a reader of the books and watcher of the show, I can't say the scene upset me in any way. Their whole storyline in both the books & the show is downright creepy and disgusting. I like Jaime's path in the books though how they plan on going that route after this scene will be interesting. Can't say much more than that without giving spoilers.
I did read that part of the reasoning behind this scene was to humanize Cersei. She's always been a power player but having her father force her into another marriage she doesn't want (Robert was her first hubby & now she's being forced to marry Loras Tyrell) and the rape scene both show that while she has power, there are men (namely her father and brother) who can and do subject her to humiliations no woman should have to endure but she does and somehow survives them. Cersei is one of the most hated (if not the most hated after Joffrey's death) characters and watching her suffer these humiliations will help watchers of the show understand her motives for what she does.
In the books, Joffrey's death was more gruesome & painful. He started turning black and ripped at his own throat. He deserved way more than what was shown.
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Last edited by BetteDavisEyes; 04-27-2014 at 11:42 AM.
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04-28-2014, 11:40 AM
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Okay, I gotta vent about last night.
I was really happy about the Oathkeeper scene with Brienne, Jaime & Pod (I actually got a bit misty-eyed).
But then the totally-didn't-happen-in-the-books stuff with Locke and the Watch and Bran & the Reeds at Craster's, and the lord of the Others and all that nonsense... It was odd and different enough that I was a bit peeved, but as I've thought about it more, I'm more annoyed because 1) I don't see much reason for the plot changes and 2) they're going to have to add more different plot things to finish up what they started.
OF COURSE I'll still be watching, though. It just means my friends are going to have to hear me continue to complain about how "this doesn't happen in the book!"
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04-28-2014, 11:43 AM
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The fluidity of the episodes is starting to annoy. They start each episode off by neatly wrapping up all of the conflict from the previous episode, then introducing additional conflicts one by one which you know you're going to have to wait at least a week to see resolved.
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04-28-2014, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
The fluidity of the episodes is starting to annoy. They start each episode off by neatly wrapping up all of the conflict from the previous episode, then introducing additional conflicts one by one which you know you're going to have to wait at least a week to see resolved.
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I think Sopranos pioneered this, and it's been the format for dramas ever since.
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04-28-2014, 01:15 PM
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If HBO ends this series like it ended the Sopranos... hell to pay.
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06-03-2014, 01:33 PM
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The Mountain and The Viper
Thoughts? So much to say but my thoughts are everywhere! I'll go by what we saw in the snow and. It bring up what's in the books bc frankly, I go crazy sometimes with comparisons.
Arya and The Hound - I'm getting irritated by them dragging out her storyline. Get on with it! Though I must admit her hysterical laughter was unnerving but pretty awesome to watch. After all she's endured, she's so close and yet so far.
Sansa - Finally we start seeing her come into her own and play the game. She covered brilliantly for Petyr though his creepy looks towards her are pervy. Plus, what's up with her wearing that Maleficent dress and giving him a look while coming down the stairs? Weird. God I hope they decide. To to hook those 2 up. Ewwww!
Jon - Boring scenes from the Night's Watch. Hopefully the fight next week makes up for it.
The BIG Fight - OMG! Oberyn! A friend told me she screamed like Ellaria Sand did I'm that last fight scene. Even though I knew it was coming, it still shocked me at how gory and brutal it was.
Tyrion's face at he end was so heartbreaking. Cersei has the perfect resting bitch face.
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06-03-2014, 02:42 PM
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at least while reading the books, you can skip a couple pages and miss bloody/gory details.
i was catching up on work emails while this episode was on, and *luckily* took a break to let the cat out during the final scene. i still had the tv loud enough to hear it though.
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