Auburn Spring Rush 07

[shinerbock]

If you can't carry something around, there are obviously problems. It is a very simple task of pledgeship we use as an indicator to see if pledges are keeping up with their other responsibilities. If you constantly are without your pin or a lighter or whatever, that makes us look further into what other things you may be overlooking (academics, house responsibilities, responsibilities to your pledge brothers).

I'll rephrase about the collared shirt thing, if you don't wear one regularly, you don't belong in a fraternity at Auburn, or at Auburn for that matter. The reason being that it makes you look like an adult, which you pretty much are. Now, wearing a t shirt now and then, of course, whatever, but if you're constantly walking around in mall t-shirts which have some catchy slogan from A&F, its time to go back to high school. Acting and dressing like responsible adults is something that many people like about AU, and as greeks you should hold yourselves to even higher a standard. You shouldnt worry about it, considering you don't go there. I imagine there is a difference in such standards on the respective campuses.

[robertearlkeen]

Originally Posted by BrendanMcGrail

That's odd, since I wear a collared shirt only when I must, and I'm in a fraternity. The only reasoning I can see that even remotely supports this is that it's a sign of "gentlemanly conduct", which I would assume should be based more on, well, conduct, and less on dress.

Furthermore, if you need to make a guy carry cigarettes or tell him how to dress, or any other sort of inane behavioral corrections to make him part of your fraternity - why the hell did you give him a bid in the first place?

First off, I cant believe that you dont have a dress code for your pledges. Do you really allow them to walk around in tshirts or whatever they want? Carrying cigarettes is to give to brothers when they need one. Pledges are not allowed to use any form of tobacco. As for "telling him how to dress, or any other sort of inane behavioral corrections to make him part of your fraternity," we are not making them dress in a way to conform to what we believe they should dress. To be honest they would never recieved a bid if we thought that they would not dress with class and in accordance to what a southern gentleman should look like. It dumbfounds me that some greek organizations make their "pledges" do hardly anything besides learn the organizations history. Im not saying you have to beat them, but I do not beleive in short 8 week pledgeships, non hazing, or not making them follow simple rules such as carrying smokes for brothers or dressing nicely. Also you should probably start wearing collared shirts, in the real world companies dont tend to hire people who show up in emo gear or american eagle tshirts.

[BrendanMcGrail]

Originally Posted by robertearlkeen

First off, I cant believe that you dont have a dress code for your pledges. Do you really allow them to walk around in tshirts or whatever they want? Carrying cigarettes is to give to brothers when they need one. Pledges are not allowed to use any form of tobacco. As for "telling him how to dress, or any other sort of inane behavioral corrections to make him part of your fraternity," we are not making them dress in a way to conform to what we believe they should dress. To be honest they would never recieved a bid if we thought that they would not dress with class and in accordance to what a southern gentleman should look like. It dumbfounds me that some greek organizations make their "pledges" do hardly anything besides learn the organizations history. Im not saying you have to beat them, but I do not beleive in short 8 week pledgeships, non hazing, or not making them follow simple rules such as carrying smokes for brothers or dressing nicely. Also you should probably start wearing collared shirts, in the real world companies dont tend to hire people who show up in emo gear or american eagle tshirts.

The only point you've made that I agree with is that I also do not believe in an 8 week pledge program - ours lasts the entire semester, and I absolutely feel it should. It's impossible to adequately communicate the nature of the organization in a shorter period. However, both before and after that, you failed to produce a single statement I agreed with beyond the tangential "real world companies dont tend to hire people who show up in emo gear or american eagle tshirts", which I will address after tackling the larger issue(s) at hand.

First, the issue of hazing. It's not who we are, or want to be. It goes against our fundamental principles to haze - if you're a Beta, I'll be more than happy to delve deeper into this with you, but if you're not, then trust me - it does. This also covers rules like carrying cigarettes for brothers. Aside from the obvious issue that none of us smoke, I absolutely fail to see the benefit that can come from having someone carry object x around with him. And again, we don't have a dress code for ourselves, so why would we have one for pledges? Clearly, there is one for chapter meetings and other events, but for day to day purposes, we're much too practical for that. Perhaps it's because we are (with only 1 exception), all science and engineering majors and value practicality, our founding principles, and logic over concerns of whether we are being sufficiently ostentatious; our reputation on campus and in the community speaks to the character of both our brothers and pledges in a light that is more than positive.

And now the collared shirt issue. I'm slightly bothered by the fact that you think I lack the class to dress appropriately for work-related activities. Clearly, if the situation warranted it, I would. Fortunately, it seldom will in my life, since I plan on spending most of my professional career in academia, where again, practicality trumps social convention.

Maybe I just lack an understanding and appreciation of why the idea of a "southern gentleman" is still around in 2006. Shouldn't you be more concerned with being a good global citizen? The world extends beyond the Mason-Dixon Line - in fact, it gets a lot better(well, politically, anyway).

[shinerbock]

Politically, haha. Sure it does pal.

Theres a difference here. I know some places in the world you can spike up your hair and wear a shell necklace with cargo pants and an abercombie shirt on thursday night, and then wear a suit to your interview the next day without any problem. However, if you dress like that here, you'll have problems. First, I don't know if its more intense than other parts of the country, but who you know is very important in the south. Thus, the person who gets you that interview might not be somebody you meet at a job fair, its equally likely to be someone you meet at the bar or game. Second, future interests aside, if you dress like I just said, you're gonna have a tough time being taken seriously by anyone. Girls won't really have much to do with you (especially sorority girls) and you probably will have trouble getting into bars. You'd certainly have trouble getting into a decent fraternity. Obviously, tradition is a big part of southern lifestyle, and classic and simple things play into that.

[robertearlkeen]

Originally Posted by BrendanMcGrail

The only point you've made that I agree with is that I also do not believe in an 8 week pledge program - ours lasts the entire semester, and I absolutely feel it should. It's impossible to adequately communicate the nature of the organization in a shorter period. However, both before and after that, you failed to produce a single statement I agreed with beyond the tangential "real world companies dont tend to hire people who show up in emo gear or american eagle tshirts", which I will address after tackling the larger issue(s) at hand.

First, the issue of hazing. It's not who we are, or want to be. It goes against our fundamental principles to haze - if you're a Beta, I'll be more than happy to delve deeper into this with you, but if you're not, then trust me - it does. This also covers rules like carrying cigarettes for brothers. Aside from the obvious issue that none of us smoke, I absolutely fail to see the benefit that can come from having someone carry object x around with him. And again, we don't have a dress code for ourselves, so why would we have one for pledges? Clearly, there is one for chapter meetings and other events, but for day to day purposes, we're much too practical for that. Perhaps it's because we are (with only 1 exception), all science and engineering majors and value practicality, our founding principles, and logic over concerns of whether we are being sufficiently ostentatious; our reputation on campus and in the community speaks to the character of both our brothers and pledges in a light that is more than positive.

And now the collared shirt issue. I'm slightly bothered by the fact that you think I lack the class to dress appropriately for work-related activities. Clearly, if the situation warranted it, I would. Fortunately, it seldom will in my life, since I plan on spending most of my professional career in academia, where again, practicality trumps social convention.

Maybe I just lack an understanding and appreciation of why the idea of a "southern gentleman" is still around in 2006. Shouldn't you be more concerned with being a good global citizen? The world extends beyond the Mason-Dixon Line - in fact, it gets a lot better(well, politically, anyway).

I do realize that the world extends past the Mason-Dixon, yet I have no desire to go north of it, except to hunt, and certainly will never live above it. Also the way you dress was a joke, obviously you feel like you wont have to dress the way I do to get your job. However, Shinerbock is right in that, the South we tend to dress nicely at all times. And as for "why a "southern gentleman" is still around in 2006?" Maybe it is because in the South we appreciate the fact that men still hold doors for women, we dress nicely, and adress our elders with respect. I visited some relatives that unfortunately moved to Michigan a few years back and I was amazed at how rude and inconsiderate the people were. That isnt an attack on their personal character, but it was strange to me to hear cars honking at everyone and men not holding doors for women, and much less the profanity used in public, especially with women present. I also have no desire to be a good "global citizen" because I put my interest in my country before the rest of the world. I know that business is now completely global, and interaction with other countries is far from avoidable, but I do not really care about the rest of the world as much as my own country.

I am not a beta, but I do know that the betas here do make their pledges wear khakis and collared shirts with pledge pins and im sure that they have to carry items on them such as smokes.

[shinerbock]

haha, I can't believe you referred to the practicality of academia.

[BrendanMcGrail]

Originally Posted by robertearlkeen

I am not a beta, but I do know that the betas here do make their pledges wear khakis and collared shirts with pledge pins and im sure that they have to carry items on them such as smokes.

I believe it - I just think it goes against our principles. Clearly, my remarks regarding the south were a joke - my only real gripe is that all the southerners I've met seem to lack what one of my brothers refers to as "Northern Hustle".

[SigmaPsi_Star]

Originally Posted by robertearlkeen

And as for "why a "southern gentleman" is still around in 2006?" Maybe it is because in the South we appreciate the fact that menstill hold doors for women, we dress nicely, and adress our elders with respect.

being from the north myself...I have to say that on my campus, at the very least, the vast majority of men, especially fraternity men, will hold doors open for women, and do adress their elders with respect. And as far as dressing nicely, you have to understand that on my campus, most people are far too concerned about the vast amounts of engineering/science based work they need to do on any given day to put that much effort into getting dressed on a daily basis. They're not dirty, they don't look messy, and in general, they don't look like they belong in high school. They just look like they're going to class. It isn't really all that important to dress nicely to go to class...you're there to learn, not to be pretty.

[shinerbock]

Who goes to college to learn? Thats what grad school is for.

[robertearlkeen]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Who goes to college to learn? Thats what grad school is for.

People who dont have a job lined up go to college to learn, it is an unfortunate scenario mostly found in greek communities above the Mason Dixon.

[BrendanMcGrail]

Originally Posted by robertearlkeen

People who dont have a job lined up go to college to learn, it is an unfortunate scenario mostly found in greek communities above the Mason Dixon.

Or people who just like learning.

[robertearlkeen]

Originally Posted by BrendanMcGrail

Or people who just like learning.

These people do not exist

[Coramoor]

I was just down at Auburn for a few weekends.

Now if I went by only what I read by other memebers here posting about Auburn or the South I would be extremely impressed and think it is the coolest place in the world. However, I've been there and experienced the scene. I've also been to about 30 other campuses all over the country.

While Auburn was pretty good...it really isn't anything to write home about. I'd put it in my top five, but Ohio University (Athens Ohio), Miami (Oxford Ohio), WVU (Morgantown WV), and Texas A&M all have better bars, parties, and women.

The one cool thing about Auburn was the Supper Club. The girls are no harder to get or talk to there. College girls are the same everywhere...they want to hook up just like guys do, it just takes a little more alcohol to make them admit it sometimes.

[macallan25]

TEXAS A&M..............BETTER BARS AND WOMEN?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good God you have to be joking me. College Station is a step above Waco and Lubbock as the arm pit of Texas. That place sucks out loud. The bars are horrible, the women are the least attractive of any major university in Texas and the fraternity parties are loaded with GDIs and douchebags............save SAE Chili Fest....which is pretty fun. Either you have horrible taste............or you really haven't experienced crap. Go to Austin perhaps, or maybe Tuscaloosa, Oxford, Athens, etc. etc. etc. I've had more fun getting drunk at my grandmother's backgammon game than in College Station.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by BrendanMcGrail

Or people who just like learning.

.....and who are these people?