GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Risk Management - Hazing & etc.

Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 325,130
Threads: 115,503
Posts: 2,196,062
Welcome to our newest member, zmaisongoogleto
» Online Users: 1,389
0 members and 1,389 guests
No Members online
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 02-19-2019, 03:42 PM
Rod D Rod D is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 110
So the squeaky chicken was a good example. At the end of the day it is entirely harmless and kind of funny. Sure the police use it to keep composure -- part of their job. So that legitimizes it. But what harm is there if a GLO (or other group) did it? They end up in trouble? Do we want to say "that's hazing" in this context?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-19-2019, 04:55 PM
*winter* *winter* is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by navane View Post
I agree. I am both a firefighter and a peace officer. I never had a plastic chicken squeezed in my face in any of my academies; but, I understand the lesson that the instructors were presenting. To tag onto what winter is explaining, fire, military and police have something that GLOs don't - a very real and present need to be able to perform under pressure in a life-threatening situation. Along with that comes the need to be able to follow directions from superiors, think quickly, and act decisively. Fraternity and sorority members do not, I repeat, DO NOT have the same expectation to perform in life and death situations. So, comparisons of GLOs to military or first responders isn't really equivalent and, yes, context matters.

Now, that said.....what about those videos of military personnel getting hazed by having their qualification pins jammed into their chests, or Sailors going through wog/shellback ceremonies, or some firefighter duct taping a probie to the wall or whatever. Not ok. That's hazing and does not have a direct correlation to a real world task or expectation. When I was in my first firefighter academy, we were "punished" with push-ups or flutter kicks for not getting correct answers on questions when asked; but, an instructor was always on the ground doing the punishment exercise with us. The purpose was to impress on us the need to know the information and to maintain our physical fitness. You might be able to argue that forcing fraternity pledges to do push-ups will also convince them to memorize fraternity history, but I still think that is not entirely the same. Being able to remember the names of the 12 founders is not the same as knowing the 10 standard firefighting orders and 18 wildland fire safety rules which are directly related to life and death safety considerations. Further, I'll laugh at anyone who tries to say that maintaining physical strength is a key component of fraternities and sororities.

The chicken squeaking was a little silly; but, I understand the point of it and the video shows to me that none of the recruits were unnecessarily harmed or punished excessively. In terms of GLOs, pledge pictures and hometowns on a bulletin board is NOT hazing and neither is pledge interviews or an innocent scavenger hunt. But, come on, don't act naive. You know full well that things like scavenger hunts were banned as hazing because some idiots decided that, if a scavenger hunt for innocent items was fun, a scavenger hunt for liquor, nudity, vandalism and sexual imagery would be even funnier. So, because some can't be trusted with a basic task, it all gets locked down. I mean, instead of having a party with some beers and good times, they have to shovel entire handles of liquor down pledges throats until 911 is called or a kid dies.

Then we wonder why we can't have nice things and we wring our hands over squeaking chickens, scavenger hunts, bulletin boards, and house chores.
Amen to the whole post
__________________
* Kelsey *
"Apart" of isn't the right term...it is " a_part_of"...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-19-2019, 04:57 PM
*winter* *winter* is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod D View Post
So the squeaky chicken was a good example. At the end of the day it is entirely harmless and kind of funny. Sure the police use it to keep composure -- part of their job. So that legitimizes it. But what harm is there if a GLO (or other group) did it? They end up in trouble? Do we want to say "that's hazing" in this context?
If that's all they're doing, society has bigger fish to fry. However, anyone in any GLO nowadays needs to realize, in light of what's going on, everything. They do and say will be analyzed. Fair or not, that's what it's come to because of the bad apples. If people continue to die at this rate, I honestly don't know what the future holds for Greek life. It's really this generation's to make or break.
__________________
* Kelsey *
"Apart" of isn't the right term...it is " a_part_of"...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-19-2019, 08:53 PM
navane navane is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Then SOME idiots should be punished, not the whole Greek system. As I said, the ones who didn’t haze will feel resentful and the ones who do haze will figure ways around it and not learn a damn thing.

I never said I agreed with the "punish everyone" approach. When it comes to preventing hazing, common sense went out the window.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod D View Post
So the squeaky chicken was a good example. At the end of the day it is entirely harmless and kind of funny. Sure the police use it to keep composure -- part of their job. So that legitimizes it. But what harm is there if a GLO (or other group) did it? They end up in trouble? Do we want to say "that's hazing" in this context?

Frankly, I don't really have an issue with the squeaky chicken in a fraternity scenario. I don't see the harm if it's just a funny game to pass the time. Like, throwing paper basketballs in a wastepaper basket - if you miss, you do 5 push-ups - or something like that. People do that kind of stuff everywhere.

I mean, we even have that thread here at GreekChat - You Laugh, You Lose: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=105269


My point was that this type of "everything could be hazing" policy is an overcorrection for what is seen as an inability of youth to use good judgement and self-control.
__________________
GFB Z
Gamma Phi Beta

True and Constant

Last edited by navane; 02-19-2019 at 08:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-20-2019, 04:46 AM
*winter* *winter* is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 792
The problem comes in, we live in a society where someone WOULD complain about the chicken. And action would be taken, the whole 9 yards. We also live in a society where people think it's okay to urinate on, beat and force feed alcohol to pledges. And the pledges seem willing, for the most part, to take it. It's like, the number of people complaining about stupid stuff being hazing has gone up, but so has the violence and level of harm of the people who are actually hazing. I wouldn't want to work in HQ right now.
__________________
* Kelsey *
"Apart" of isn't the right term...it is " a_part_of"...
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-20-2019, 04:47 AM
*winter* *winter* is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by navane View Post
My point was that this type of "everything could be hazing" policy is an overcorrection for what is seen as an inability of youth to use good judgement and self-control.
This.
__________________
* Kelsey *
"Apart" of isn't the right term...it is " a_part_of"...
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-23-2019, 02:22 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,390
The chicken squeaking isn't the problem, the forcing someone to do the pushups is the problem. What if they can't do the pushups? What does the punishment become then? What if they have a medical problem? How long does this go on? Do they end up going all night because one person keeps laughing? There is risk for it going badly. Next thing, someone is making them do shots if they laugh. Then someone ends up doing 20 shots and is in ER. In too many cases, these students have shown that they cannot make good decisions and they put their brothers/sisters and their organization at risk because they don't know when to stop.

If there's not a purpose to it that relates to the organization's values, why do it?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-27-2019, 05:11 PM
Rod D Rod D is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 110
So back to the original question:

1) Is it hazing to require new members to attend study tables?

2) Is it hazing to require new members to clean "the house?" Or do other house projects?

3) How about "pledge rides" or "pledge uber?"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Define your terms: racism SWTXBelle News & Politics 8 10-04-2009 07:24 AM
Define "BITCH" The Original Ape Alpha Phi Alpha 51 06-13-2008 02:42 PM
Help me define who I am in this lib vs conserv debate moe.ron News & Politics 15 12-12-2003 08:31 PM
Please define "snap bid" AOX81 Greek Life 8 02-06-2001 12:56 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.