Always good to list legacies? Sometimes not?

#1 08-06-2008, 12:35 AM

For fraternity rush, is it always good to list legacies, for example to show family and personal support for the greek system? But what if a rushee is pretty sure he is not as interested in his legacy houses at a given school as he is in other houses? Will listing these legacies hurt his chances at houses other than his legacy chapters?

Kansas City · #2 08-07-2008, 10:39 AM

My experience is on the sorority side of things but I don't think that it huts you. My chapter based our recruitment on the individual and if we wanted another house's legacy we would actively persue them ("rush them hard"). It was almost a challenge for us (the non-legacy house) to see if we could convince someone join us instead of their legacy house. If you are a desirable PNM then being a legacy at another house should not matter.

violetpretty · #3 08-07-2008, 10:49 AM

I would *think*, and any fraternity members correct if I'm wrong, that it wouldn't hurt you even in the SEC to list a legacy for fraternity rush.

The reason it is a predicament for PNMs in sorority recruitment is because of the release figures. Some chapters are forced to cut half (or more) of the PNMs after the first round. The assumption (albeit unfair and often incorrect) is that the PNM will go to the legacy chapter (particularly if it is well-regarded) and that the other chapters shouldn't waste an invite on someone who won't end up at their chapter.

Since fraternities aren't bound by the same sort of numbers game that NPC sororities are, if you show interest in the chapters you are rushing, you'd be considered just like any other potential member. Mentioning that you are a legacy shows that you know about the commitment of fraternity life through your relative(s). Just don't talk too much about the legacy chapter; talk about what you are looking for based on your relative's experiences.

ClassicUNC · #4 08-08-2008, 05:47 PM

I would think hard before telling people about your legacy status.

I know that my chapter declined membership to perfectly decent individuals based on where their father, uncle, brother, etc were members. I know it is a real stupid practice, but I'm sure that we aren't alone in doing this...

The funny thing about it is trying to watch someone rationalize that you don't want "John" because his father was an "Alpha" thirty years ago and we would never associate with an Alpha, not realizing that Alpha was a strong chapter just ten years ago. Silly boys.

#5 08-08-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClassicUNC

I know that my chapter declined membership to perfectly decent individuals based on where their father, uncle, brother, etc were members. I know it is a real stupid practice, but I'm sure that we aren't alone in doing this...

Where they were members. You mean, bottom-tier chapters?

Canadian · #6 08-08-2008, 08:35 PM

It's never been a problem up in Canada. We prefer our members to have some semblance of an idea what Greek life is about, and quite honestly I'd rather have a legacy try to rush than a guy who's straight out of school and thinks American Pie and Animal House are the standard.

Legacies often bring an understanding that there are parts which are secret and spiritual. My dad wasn't a Greek, but my uncle was. I don't know his secret ritual, and he doesn't know mine. My sister was Honoured Queen of the province (Equivalent to being an DGM or very senior GM) in a freemason organization, and I understand that it's not about the things which a non-legacy might not understand.

So to briefly answer your question, in a strong greek system, it might be a disadvantage, assuming the legacy is from a top-tier org, and they are actively considering all their options. But in a weak greek system, like my alma mater (very few orgs, no official recognition by campus) it matters a lot less.

Also, my founding GM was a Pike pledge before he pledged Kappa Sigma, and by some miracle, he was GM until chartering. He's got an award named after him which we give out every year at formals, and it's not a super-big deal that when he was in a stronger Greek system, he didn't choose Kappa Sigma as his first choice. What mattered was that he understood the serious nature of the Greek world.

Long story short, I doubt it really matters except in very competative schools.

Thomas

EE-BO · #7 08-08-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrdavis5

For fraternity rush, is it always good to list legacies, for example to show family and personal support for the greek system? But what if a rushee is pretty sure he is not as interested in his legacy houses at a given school as he is in other houses? Will listing these legacies hurt his chances at houses other than his legacy chapters? This is for rush at U of Kentucky, if that helps.

Generally good advice. For the most part, listing your legacies is a good thing. Fraternity rushees do not undergo anywhere near the scrutiny of sorority rushees in advance of formal rush, and so for the majority of chapters the ability of a rushee to show the fraternity and the degree of family acceptance of a rushee pledging are very important considerations. Being a legacy goes a long way toward showing you come into the process with supportive parents who understand the costs involved.

For top tier schools at very competitive campuses, this is not a worry since they know all about the guys they plan to pledge well before rush starts- but for 99% of rushees, it is usually helpful to list your legacies.

Here is where it is not a good idea- when the general social level of the chapters you want to rush and feel you could be a part of is significantly above the chapters where you have legacies. If you are a legacy for a low-tier chapter at Kentucky, for example, best to not list it in my view. If you are a legacy for one of the handful of fraternities that is considered weak nationally, best not to list it.

However, do list legacies for respectable chapters. Those chapters may try to rush you extra hard if they like you, and other good chapters on campus will see that you are a legacy from a good chapter and consider that a plus. They will not automatically assume you are going to go to your legacy chapter either.

Look at listing your legacies as saying something about you as a rush candidate to ANY fraternity. It can only hurt you if you list legacies that could make you look bad even before chapters meet you.

TSteven · #8 08-08-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Generally good advice. For the most part, listing your legacies is a good thing. Fraternity rushees do not undergo anywhere near the scrutiny of sorority rushees in advance of formal rush, and so for the majority of chapters the ability of a rushee to show the fraternity and the degree of family acceptance of a rushee pledging are very important considerations. Being a legacy goes a long way toward showing you come into the process with supportive parents who understand the costs involved.

For top tier schools at very competitive campuses, this is not a worry since they know all about the guys they plan to pledge well before rush starts- but for 99% of rushees, it is usually helpful to list your legacies.

Here is where it is not a good idea- when the general social level of the chapters you want to rush and feel you could be a part of is significantly above the chapters where you have legacies. If you are a legacy for a low-tier chapter at Kentucky, for example, best to not list it in my view. If you are a legacy for one of the handful of fraternities that is considered weak nationally, best not to list it.

However, do list legacies for respectable chapters. Those chapters may try to rush you extra hard if they like you, and other good chapters on campus will see that you are a legacy from a good chapter and consider that a plus. They will not automatically assume you are going to go to your legacy chapter either.

Look at listing your legacies as saying something about you as a rush candidate to ANY fraternity. It can only hurt you if you list legacies that could make you look bad even before chapters meet you.

This is for your son right? In any case, I graduated from The University of Kentucky (GO CATS!) over twenty-five years ago. Unless things have drastically changed since then, for the most part, being a legacy (I am a double legacy) was considered an assist.

Fraternities want men who have an understanding of what it means to be a member. Both financial and with the time commitment. However, as has been noted (and bolded), certain chapters might not be held in high regard by other chapters. So discretion might be necessary depending on the legacy and which chapters are being rushed.

And at UK, a rusheee should never flaunt his legacy. Even if it is to a top tier chapter.

Please feel free to PM regarding UK's rush and the various chapters. While I may not be unbiased, I am fair with my assessment.

pinksirfidel · #9 08-09-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrdavis5

For fraternity rush, is it always good to list legacies, for example to show family and personal support for the greek system? But what if a rushee is pretty sure he is not as interested in his legacy houses at a given school as he is in other houses? Will listing these legacies hurt his chances at houses other than his legacy chapters? This is for rush at U of Kentucky, if that helps.

Don't be 100% sure that a legacy WILL get his/her house, whether they want to or not. On the sorority side, I had a close friend from a competitive SEC school whose sister graduated the semester prior to her rushing. Her sister was quite active in recruitment the year she rushed, so her chapter was WELL aware of her coming through. Anyway, she was dropped. Not because she wanted to be dropped... yes, the sorority chose to drop a legacy and choose anther girl. Needless to say, there were only 2 legacies (including her) going through rush that year. She ended up in a sorority she absolutely loved for four years. So the lesson I learned quickly about legacies? Treat 'em like any other PNM coming through recruitment! You just never know!

FSUZeta · #10 08-09-2008, 03:57 PM

[QUOTE=TSteven;1693079]
. However, as has been noted (and bolded), certain chapters might not be held in high regard by other chapters. So discretion might be necessary depending on the legacy and which chapters are being rushed.

is the same true if the legacy fraternites are not represented at the young mans school?

Elephant Walk · #11 08-09-2008, 04:30 PM

I don't know why you'd list the fraternities you're legacy to if they not at the school?

violetpretty · #12 08-09-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I don't know why you'd list the fraternities you're legacy to if they not at the school?

To show that as a legacy you understand what a fraternity is about?

FSUZeta · #13 08-10-2008, 01:27 PM

as violetpretty said, women list their sorority affiliations even if the sorority does not have a chapter at that school. it lets the campus sororities know that the family understands the obligations of membership and that the family is most likely supportive of the daughter participating in greek life. i just wondered if fraternities think that way.

Elephant Walk · #14 08-10-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

as violetpretty said, women list their sorority affiliations even if the sorority does not have a chapter at that school. it lets the campus sororities know that the family understands the obligations of membership and that the family is most likely supportive of the daughter participating in greek life. i just wondered if fraternities think that way.

My chapter doesn't, personally.

Perhaps others do...anyone?

magichat · #15 08-10-2008, 04:58 PM

Not that way exactly, but when we see a guy's father was in a fraternity we get the idea that his parents may not be so over dramatic about the concept of him pledging and whatever that may entail.

It is not a plus or a negative for him though, just a point brought up in bid deliberation.