NPC appoints Community College Task Force

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

The affiliation problems would get vicious, especially if women expected automatic affiliation.

That’s exactly what I was thinking.

My question is, has this come up because there is a groundswell of women at CCs contacting NPC about establishing chapters? Or has it come up because NPC is afraid of losing members due to the crappy economy and amount of people out of work, who won’t be able to send their kids to a 4 year college let alone pay sorority dues.

[NYCMS]

Originally Posted by 33girl

My question is, has this come up because there is a groundswell of women at CCs contacting NPC about establishing chapters? Or has it come up because NPC is afraid of losing members due to the crappy economy and amount of people out of work, who won’t be able to send their kids to a 4 year college let alone pay sorority dues.

My question as well. And this: when I was in college, the people I knew who went to CC's did so for financial reasons - big cost savings plus they often lived at home. If kids are going to CC's often to save money, will they have the money for sorority membership? (without a house, of course). And if they've living at home (sometimes up to 30-45 minutes away from what I've seen) or working part-time, will they have time for membership while in a CC?

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by NYCMS

My question as well. And this: when I was in college, the people I knew who went to CC's did so for financial reasons - big cost savings plus they often lived at home. If kids are going to CC's often to save money, will they have the money for sorority membership? (without a house, of course). And if they've living at home (sometimes up to 30-45 minutes away from what I've seen) or working part-time, will they have time for membership?

I feel fortunate to have lived during an economic time when working to save money while attending a CC meant I could afford to join a sorority once I enrolled at a four year institution, instead of having to work during college to help my family pay for life necessities.

[navane]

PRO:

1) More opportunities to women to have a sorority experience

2) Financial benefit to the GLOs by having more members


CON:

1) This is my #1 issue: Women who join at CC, transfer to a 4-year university and then re-rush and join a different sorority. No. No. and No.

2) Women who try to join a chapter at a CC and then attempt to affiliate at a flagship university with a highly-desired "top tier" chapter of that organization. This creates potential for even more attempts to game the system than we see already.

3) Affiliation at any transfer chapter is usually not guaranteed and this can cause upset. Then....see "Con #1" women then trying to rush somewhere else.

4) There's no guarantee that a woman who joined at the CC would continue on to 4-year university afterward. So we would then see a bunch of 2 year members disappear. Further, some (not all!) CC students are a bit aimless. They weren't ready for university and are still trying to find themselves. CC is a great strategy for those students! They may try out a few classes and realize college is not for them. That's totally ok; but, it does impact member retention and experience.

5) CC tend to have a higher proportion of non-traditional students. For example, we might see some middle-aged women trying to rush or whathaveyou. This isn't "terrible" in and of itself, but as we've all pointed out many times, what does that woman have in common with a bunch of 18-22 year olds? These students may also not have the time to commit, the financial means, etc etc etc.

6) CC are usually commuter campuses and don't have a traditional series of events such as sports, homecoming, etc. I'm not sure how GLOs would plug-in.

7) What about NIC fraternities? Are the sororities supposed to exist in a CC vacuum? Now, NPC doesn't "need" fraternities to operate; but, mixers and such are part of the Greek Life experience and NPCs at CC would be a bit lopsided.

8) Oversight. Who is going to be supervising these chapters? Many of our GLOs are already stretched thin on volunteers.

9) Where do we draw the line in terms of scholarship? If a woman who is studying for a professional certificate in culinary arts or auto body shop or private pilot's license allowed to rush even if those programs of study are not available in a 4-year university program? Or do we limit recruitment to women who are only currently enrolled in a university transfer pattern?

10) Finishing with my #2 issue: Liability. I can foresee having additional risk management issues from members who just figured that Greek Life is what they saw on TV. Sometimes, we need the greater Greek Life community to help us develop norms for conduct and behavior. Yes, of course there are RM problems at university, even with large Greek systems and a Fraternity and Sorority Life Office in place. But, I still feel concerned that the CC would be something of a new frontier where there's not enough structure or community norms to inform these chapters on acceptable behavior.

[Titchou]

THere is a task fore researching this and reaching out to all NPC groups for input. I suggest you send your thoughts to your group's Council membership/extension officer.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Or has it come up because NPC is afraid of losing members due to the crappy economy and amount of people out of work, who won’t be able to send their kids to a 4 year college let alone pay sorority dues.

This is my bet for winner winner chicken dinner.

Four year colleges are in trouble. They were in trouble before the coronavirus. Now?

Look at how much colleges and universities are struggling with just one semester going out of whack financially. What are they going to do if enrollment drops a steady 8-10% over the next few years? Sure, some of them will be fine because there will always be enough families with money to send their kids to school. But there aren't enough of them to keep all these schools afloat indefinitely, including the Greek organizations on them.

I wondered a while back if some of the NPC groups were trying to pivot a bit for the future based on rebranding, verbiage, etc. Not even just to keep up with the times, but to be viable as a woman's organization if things went sideways with college enrollment and cultural trends.

I have nothing against community colleges. My daughter may very well start at one. I lived at home and commuted to a Big Ten university so I have nothing against commuter students either. But putting NPC organizations on community college campuses is one of the most daft ideas I've seen floated on this board lo these many years.

If the NPC groups think they need to go to community colleges to survive, sorority life as we've known it is basically done.

[33girl]

Andthen or any other older Penn State people- didn’t there used to be a fraternity that had mini chapters at all the branches and when they got to Main they all were in the fraternity?

[PGD-GRAD]

A few years ago Indiana’s community college system called Ivy Tech (I’m NOT fond of the name!) had millions of dollars poured into it...new buildings, etc. It hurt the larger 4-year schools—IU, Purdue, etc.—but it made sense to the state: Ivy Tech was much cheaper, no libraries, dorms, unions, auditoriums to fund. The state also allowed them to expand to include some 4 year programs, again hurting larger established colleges.

For some time Ivy Tech ran ads showing attractive young high-school age students. One girl said to another: “But they don’t have sororities!” to which the girl replied something like: “it’s still easy to meet new people” while eyeing a cute boy at a nearby table.

In spite of this, and having taught at a community college very early on, I just don’t think many sorority nationals (or internationals) are going to be happy to plant their flag at Possum Crick Community College and have it listed with the likes of century-old chapters at NYU, Berkeley, Stanford, Texas, Ole Miss, etc.

Go ahead—pile on me for being elitist, but I just can’t see it—too many years of rich tradition at seasoned, highly-rated institutions from coast to coast.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by PGD-GRAD

Go ahead—pile on me for being elitist, but I just can’t see it—too many years of rich tradition at seasoned, highly-rated institutions from coast to coast.

It may be elitist, but it's also accurate.

I was on staff with campus ministry in my mid 20s. Trying to establish work on community college campi is very challenging for the staff who take that on (not me). If it's hard enough to establish a solid Bible study cluster and large group with leadership continuity, how in the world do you establish a sorority and all that entails (leadership development, sisterhood, etc.)?

No way this works. Like I said, if NPC groups go this way then we're witnessing the end of sororities as we think of them. They can become glorified women's groups, but that will be it. NPC would be better off pushing for more alumnae initiates if they are really worried about numbers and viability.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Andthen or any other older Penn State people- didn’t there used to be a fraternity that had mini chapters at all the branches and when they got to Main they all were in the fraternity?

How old are we talking here? I graduated from Behrend in 2006, and as far as I know, a group like this didn't exist. Unless they were operating SUPER underground and no one knew who they were. lol.

[AZTheta]

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

Where did this "idea" originate? Who is going to claim it or take credit for it? Step up and identify yourself(ves) please. And for those who are wondering, that's a rhetorical question and I know better than to expect an answer.

Calling out the elephant in the living room: it smacks of desperation at best. And a whole lot of (shall we just say) less than desirable at worst. Yikes. Just, yikes.

Frankly, navane nailed it for me and so did PGD-GRAD. And TriDeltaSallie (waving, long time no hear).Thank you for your diplomacy and tact. I'm all out of both those qualities and don't see a refill coming any time soon.

Let us hope this dies a very quiet death. Soon.

[carnation]

^^^ What they said.

[chi-o_cat]

Here’s an idea I think that could work:

The NPC itself (not individual orgs) would establish some sort of Pre-Greek Club at community colleges for students who are interested in going through recruitment after they transfer to a 4-year institution.

This club could provide:
-An opportunity to learn more about what joining a sorority would be like
-Community Service (something to put on their “recruitment resume”)
-Academic Support
-Recruitment Prep- help to get recs, conversation practice
-Networking with current NPC collegians and/or alumnae

If the members successfully meet Pre-Greek Club goals by say, participating in a certain number of hours of community service and a having certain GPA, they would receive an official status that would give them an extra foot in the door, but not a guaranteed bid when they go through recruitment at their 4-year school. Maybe they would be invited back to the first invitational round, but then after that it’s up to the chapters to decide if they are interested. Or maybe have a special quota number for Pre-Greek transfers.

This obviously avoids all the sticky affiliation scenarios listed in this thread, but it does open up the possibility of NPC membership to a new audience of women who otherwise might have not been interested (or even women who *are* interested, but as a junior transfer, they assume shouldn’t even bother to try).

This does mean collegiate chapters would need to be open to a more diverse group of PNMs- you’re going to have older PNMs, PNMs with jobs, PNMs who live off-campus, PNMs who are first–generation college students. But if the point of the NPC task force looking into CCs in the first place is to expand membership beyond the usual low-hanging fruit, then this could be a place to start.

[carnation]

I don't see this going over well at all.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by chi-o_cat

Here’s an idea I think that could work:

The NPC itself (not individual orgs) would establish some sort of Pre-Greek Club at community colleges for students who are interested in going through recruitment after they transfer to a 4-year institution.

This club could provide:
-An opportunity to learn more about what joining a sorority would be like
-Community Service (something to put on their “recruitment resume”)
-Academic Support
-Recruitment Prep- help to get recs, conversation practice
-Networking with current NPC collegians and/or alumnae

If the members successfully meet Pre-Greek Club goals by say, participating in a certain number of hours of community service and a having certain GPA, they would receive an official status that would give them an extra foot in the door, but not a guaranteed bid when they go through recruitment at their 4-year school. Maybe they would be invited back to the first invitational round, but then after that it’s up to the chapters to decide if they are interested. Or maybe have a special quota number for Pre-Greek transfers.

This obviously avoids all the sticky affiliation scenarios listed in this thread, but it does open up the possibility of NPC membership to a new audience of women who otherwise might have not been interested (or even women who *are* interested, but as a junior transfer, they assume shouldn’t even bother to try).

This does mean collegiate chapters would need to be open to a more diverse group of PNMs- you’re going to have older PNMs, PNMs with jobs, PNMs who live off-campus, PNMs who are first–generation college students. But if the point of the NPC task force looking into CCs in the first place is to expand membership beyond the usual low-hanging fruit, then this could be a place to start.

And then, after a decade of CC women who move on to join an NPC group, possibly noting the great majority of groups have not offered many/any memberships to said CC club women?

I say no to specific CC clubs.

Keep MS as it is now and let each of our 26 member groups make their OWN decision to offer membership to ANY specific "type" of student.