White men in NPHC

[Little32]

Also, from what I have read, Ethel Hedgeman had some Native American ancestry.

The assertion that one has to meet some sort of "blackness" standard to pursue our organization is ridiculous. I agree that such a claim just demonstrates a lack of serious research.

[delph998]

Good luck to you, OldBlue!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Little32

Also, from what I have read, Ethel Hedgeman had some Native American ancestry.

The assertion that one has to meet some sort of "blackness" standard to pursue our organization is ridiculous. I agree that such a claim just demonstrates a lack of serious research.

Please understand that I'm not contradicting you about your, or any other organization as a whole here but in this thread as in others there have been multiple members who stated they would not vote for a white person, usually followed with "that's just what I think" or something similar. I've seen it repeatedly. It isn't hard at all to get the impression that there's a caveat to all the remarks of openness.

I'm not surprised that on some campuses interests might not feel like they're "black enough" and would be discriminated because of it, just as there are assumptions of racism in NPC orgs where they don't exist.

[Jody]

Drolefille,

If you don't think that one of your Sorority Members won't vote for someone "just because" they are white, black, Asian, Latina, from the South, from the North, a naturalized citizen, or whatever, you're either very young or very naive.

When I was in college, I may have not voted for young ladies that had a particular major, if I indicated what that major was and young ladies knew, if they were stupid enough to switch majors for my ONE VOTE they didn't deserve to be Sorors anyway.

So what is three or four or even twenty D9 Sorors on a MESSAGE BOARD said they wouldn't vote for a white girl. If you use that as a limitus test to determine that you would have issues in a D9 Sorority then again, you're either very young or very naive. I say that as a young lady who pledged a D9 Sorority at an HBCU in the South and is the OPPOSITE physical look or what AKA's are supposed to be (tall, light skin and long hair) I'm short, dark skin and short hair...and beautiful I might add.....

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Please understand that I'm not contradicting you about your, or any other organization as a whole here but in this thread as in others there have been multiple members who stated they would not vote for a white person, usually followed with "that's just what I think" or something similar. I've seen it repeatedly. It isn't hard at all to get the impression that there's a caveat to all the remarks of openness.

I'm not surprised that on some campuses interests might not feel like they're "black enough" and would be discriminated because of it, just as there are assumptions of racism in NPC orgs where they don't exist.

Ok, serious question here. Is EVERY member of your org. a member of GC? I'm guessing no. Well, every member of Alpha Kappa Alpha is not a member of GC. Considering that there are over 200,000 members of my Sorority across the WORLD, the small number of us that are actually regular posters on GC make up less than 1% of our total membership. Therefore, if folks are to take what that .08% of persons say to be the LAW as it pertains to the entire Sorority, then they have a problem with reality.

No one will know until they try. If you don't try, well, you never really wanted it anyway. All that "not Black enough" talk is a bunch of bullisht. All we can do is encourage folks to try.

ETA: Soror Jody and I must have been typing at the same time!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by RedefinedDiva

Ok, serious question here. Is EVERY member of your org. a member of GC? I'm guessing no. Well, every member of Alpha Kappa Alpha is not a member of GC. Considering that there are over 200,000 members of my Sorority across the WORLD, the small number of us that are actually regular posters on GC make up less than 1% of our total membership. Therefore, if folks are to take what that .08% of persons say to be the LAW as it pertains to the entire Sorority, then they have a problem with reality.

No one will know until they try. If you don't try, well, you never really wanted it anyway. All that "not Black enough" talk is a bunch of bullisht. All we can do is encourage folks to try.

ETA: Soror Jody and I must have been typing at the same time!

I do understand that, that's why I said I wasn't talking about any organization as a whole. My point was that, despite the bullshit that is "So-and-so can't join XYZ because they're *race*, there are campuses on which that is the feeling given off or where, indeed, there is racism present in the membership process despite the feelings of our organizations as a whole.

I was mostly responding to what I saw as a criticism of an individual who felt ostracized by both NPC and NPHC organizations, whether her mixed race would have actually affected her chances. I suspect she never rushed nor went to interest meetings. However, I don't see that as a reason to criticize her for what she felt or experienced. Does that make sense? Her comments about membership in an NPC org are equally disheartening, but I won't turn around and criticize her how she says she was treated by people on campus, because that was how she was treated.

Also, though seperate from the poster's comments, and more relevant to the overall thread, despite a message board only being a small subsection of the population, even one member saying so can give the impression of an atmosphere of non-acceptance and doubt. Because if one member on a message board says it, expand that to the real world, and that's a significant number. And what are college freshmen but young and naive?

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I was mostly responding to what I saw as a criticism of an individual who felt ostracized by both NPC and NPHC organizations, whether her mixed race would have actually affected her chances. I suspect she never rushed nor went to interest meetings. However, I don't see that as a reason to criticize her for what she felt or experienced. Does that make sense? Her comments about membership in an NPC org are equally disheartening, but I won't turn around and criticize her how she says she was treated by people on campus, because that was how she was treated.

She didn't say that she was treated poorly by anyone and she revealed herself when she stated that she had only "heard and read" about issues in Latina sororities but still based an opinion on the rumors. What she did was project her own insecurities onto the sororities on her campus which is very different from indicating that she didn't join an organization because it didn't focus on her area of interest.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of mainstream Greek bashing among multicultural sororities because the members are often misguided as to the real purpose of their orgs. Or, in some cases, the founders themselves perpetuate stereotypes of other orgs to give their members ammo against questions about why they joined because they are unsure and insecure themselves - particularly when the organization was founded out of an isolated bad experience with a mainstream org.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

She didn't say that she was treated poorly by anyone and she revealed herself when she stated that she had only "heard and read" about issues in Latina sororities but still based an opinion on the rumors. What she did was project her own insecurities onto the sororities on her campus which is very different from indicating that she didn't join an organization because it didn't focus on her area of interest.

Exactly and what we are responding to is that misinformation and how--as we have seen on this board, in this thread--that misinformation can quickly be translated into fact and perpetuated as such. Most black people (most people really--quiet as its kept) are multicultural, multiracial, or multiethnic (whatever term you choose) in some way; so the suggestion that a mixed race heritage would be a hindrance to membership in one of the D9 is really problematic and needs to be addressed.

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Please understand that I'm not contradicting you about your, or any other organization as a whole here but in this thread as in others there have been multiple members who stated they would not vote for a white person, usually followed with "that's just what I think" or something similar. I've seen it repeatedly. It isn't hard at all to get the impression that there's a caveat to all the remarks of openness.

I'm not surprised that on some campuses interests might not feel like they're "black enough" and would be discriminated because of it, just as there are assumptions of racism in NPC orgs where they don't exist.

Oh, I've said it before and I'll say it again I personally wouldn't vote for a white person. I just don't think a white woman can identify with the historical or present day experience that I have or had as a Black woman. But with that said if I met a white Soror I would treat her with respect. I also support people's decision to pursue what is in their hearts regarding anything thing in life. But also as Little32, "stated in her post Most black people (most people really--quiet as it’s kept) are multicultural, multiracial, or multiethnic (whatever term you choose) in some way; so the suggestion that a mixed race heritage would be a hindrance to membership in one of the D9 is really problematic and needs to be addressed." If some of mixed-race/heritage thinks a multicultural organization best fits them, that's great! But to be a person of color and make statements of "not black, Hispanic, or white enough," tells me you aren't comfortable with yourself.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Reds6

Oh, I've said it before and I'll say it again I personally wouldn't vote for a white person. I just don't think a white woman can identify with the historical or present day experience that I have or had as a Black woman. But with that said if I met a white Soror I would treat her with respect. I also support people's decision to pursue what is in their hearts regarding anything thing in life. But also as Little32, "stated in her post Most black people (most people really--quiet as it’s kept) are multicultural, multiracial, or multiethnic (whatever term you choose) in some way; so the suggestion that a mixed race heritage would be a hindrance to membership in one of the D9 is really problematic and needs to be addressed." If some of mixed-race/heritage thinks a multicultural organization best fits them, that's great! But to be a person of color and make statements of "not black, Hispanic, or white enough," tells me you aren't comfortable with yourself.

Oh I completely agree that she isn't comfortable with herself, it was the "I'm Glad someone so screwed up isn't in my sorority" comments that made me post. I'd rather see all of our organizations working towards lifting women up, not breaking them down.

Also, while I understand what you're saying that you would not vote for a white person, I cannot help but be offended by it. Perhaps, this is a personal failing but I could never imagine saying or thinking anything like it myself, and I just find it offensive.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Also, while I understand what you're saying that you would not vote for a white person, I cannot help but be offended by it. Perhaps, this is a personal failing but I could never imagine saying or thinking anything like it myself, and I just find it offensive.

Think of it in other terms. I you were a member of a Muslim sorority, wouldn't you be kinda skeptical of a Christian woman looking to join your organization? The cultures are extremely different and the ability of the Christian woman to support the purpose of a Muslim organization would be in question. It doesn't have to be a personal affront. Even this example isn't adequate as a Christian could convert to Islam and understand the culture from the inside out. That can't ever happen with a white person who wants to join a black organization. He/she could never fully understand.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Think of it in other terms. I you were a member of a Muslim sorority, wouldn't you be kinda skeptical of a Christian woman looking to join your organization? The cultures are extremely different and the ability of the Christian woman to support the purpose of a Muslim organization would be in question. It doesn't have to be a personal affront. Even this example isn't adequate as a Christian could convert to Islam and understand the culture from the inside out. That can't ever happen with a white person who wants to join a black organization. He/she could never fully understand.

Except that the Muslim sorority that made news openly accepts non-Muslims who as long as they will follow the rules and values of the sorority. The D9 orgs accept non-black members. Without knowing membership requirements, I doubt many would encourage a white man to go for it, if one had to be black. No, a white person cannot completely understand because they can't be raised and live black. But a white person can be dedicated to the goals of the organization.

I've seen posts where people say they'd challenge a white soror or frat harder upon meeting them because they'd doubt their reasons, even though they're already a member! I'm really not only talking about this one situation. But I do not feel it is right to accept something offensive just because it is someone's feeling. I have nothing against Reds6 and I know why she's saying what she does, but I cannot accept that as ok, particularly when many others of her, and other d9, organization encourage a white man to puruse his interest in the NPHC.

As there were references to my GLO, if I ever heard a sister say something along those lines I would not be silent, so no worries. I'm not naive, I just won't stand for certain things.

[FAMUDva]

Originally Posted by Ilaria Ame

i, of course, meant this personally, not generally. but what i was referring to, especially on my campus, is the seperation that occurs. in order to feel comfortable in a white sorority here i have to be comfortable going to "old south" confederate balls, or having sisters who are openly racist. the divine nine sororities here are so used to being treated with prejudice that unless i was a "home girl" with no white roots whatsoever i'm looked at as just another white girl trying to be black. which is not the case. as far as latina sororities, there aren't any here, so i base this only on what i've heard and read, but i'm not interested in learning to speak spanish or trying to pretend their values are similar to mine, because they aren't. i find i'm most comfortable representing a sorority that openly embraces its sorors' cultural differences.

D9 Sororities are much bigger than a particular chapter or campus... So, I still don't get how you can't be "black" enough, but to each her own.

ETA: And with proper research you would have come to understand and know that the 4 D9 sororities DO have mutlicultural histories although they are historically black. I guess you made generalizations based on what you saw in the bubble of your campus.

[FAMUDva]

Originally Posted by JWithers

I wondered about that. I have a niece who is bi-racial and will be going to college next year and has been accepted to Spelman and UGA. She was leaning towards Spelman b/c of it's liberal arts focus, but I know she had hoped to rush a sorority. Knowing this would be helpful to her in her decision....I hate that it is like this. I would prefer to see her at a smaller school, HBCU or whatever, but I wouldn't like to see her not get into a sorority b/c she is half white.
I don't want to sway her choice, but I do think she should be aware that she might not get accepted in a BGLO. I know it shouldn't be the deciding factor in her college decision, but I do think it is worth considering.

Please don't believe the hype... Your niece would be FINE at and HBCU OR if she expressed interest in a D9 sorority. Bi-racial does not = NON black. AND D9 or HBCU does not = NON blacks are not welcome... Biracial, mutliracial, whatever!

I'm still lost on the whole arguement of what is "black", "white", or "latina" enough. Sounds like you need to feel comfortable in your own skin IMO. I have many Sorors that are bi-racial, mutli-racial, white, latina, and on and on....

[FAMUDva]

Originally Posted by Reds6

Oh BTW, they coming for your azz too.

HILARIOUS!