Yale's Comprehensive Sexual Misconduct Guide

[DrPhil]

GCers typically love a good debate. It can get heated. There are some dissenting opinions that can rub people the wrong way and especially with a particular tone. Every GCer gets told to fuck off if people tire of our message and/or our tone. That includes being placed on "ignore". Honorgal is not exceptional in this and, again, will not be able to martyrize herself.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

GCers typically love a good debate. It can get heated. There are some dissenting opinions that can rub people the wrong way and especially with a particular tone. Every GCer gets told to fuck off if people tire of our message and/or our tone. That includes being placed on "ignore". Honorgal is not exceptional in this and, again, will not be able to martyrize herself.

Martry: a person who pretends to suffer or who exaggerates suffering in order to get praise or sympathy

I'm definitely not suffering. Fascinated would be a better description.

Placing someone on ignore always conjures up a tantruming child sticking their fingers in their ears and humming "lalalalalalalalala". But, whatever floats your boat.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Martry: a person who pretends to suffer or who exaggerates suffering in order to get praise or sympathy

I'm definitely not suffering. Fascinated would be a better description.

About time you properly applied a concept. You are pretending to be the lone voice or lone fighter for your perspective. That is why you attempted to dismiss the majority of people in this thread as "group think".

It is one thing to think people are clueless and shortsighted regarding a topic, I think that quite often in GC discussions. But you come across as though you think you have some inside knowledge of campus dynamics that is not shared with the "group thinkers".

You are certainly not the only GCer who either knows people who work in a college/university or works at a college/university. You are also not the only GCer who knows alleged victims, alleged perpetrators, people who lied, people who were falsely accused, alleged victims who were telling the truth, etc. Therefore, many of us are well aware of these dynamics and still manage to have varying perspectives.

Originally Posted by honorgal

Placing someone on ignore always conjures up a tantruming child sticking their fingers in their ears and humming "lalalalalalalalala". But, whatever floats their boat.

FYP.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

About time you properly applied a concept. You are pretending to be the lone voice or lone fighter for your perspective. That is why you attempted to dismiss the majority of people in this thread as "group think".

Would be hard to pretend when it's not something I think. Unless you can show me where I have said I'm the lone voice, then you are simply making up what YOU think I'm thinking. If you are not sure, you can just ask.

is one thing to think people are clueless and shortsighted regarding a topic, I think that quite often in GC discussions.

I'd call this projection.

But you come across as though you think you have some inside knowledge of campus dynamics that is not shared with the "group thinkers".

You are certainly not the only GCer who either knows people who work in a college/university or works at a college/university. You are also not the only GCer who knows alleged victims, alleged perpetrators, people who lied, people who were falsely accused, alleged victims who were telling the truth, etc. Therefore, many of us are well aware of these dynamics and still manage to have varying perspectives.

Again, maybe this is projection. Someone already made this same observation and I replied that I don't claim to be an expert or insider knowledge. I have my own observations and experiences, we all do, and I have read widely from a variety of factual sources on this topic. That's what forms my opinions. No need to make it into something its not.

FYP.

LOL...of all the numerous times you've tried to put words in my mouth, this one takes the cake.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Would be hard to pretend when it's not something I think. Unless you can show me where I have said I'm the lone voice, then you are simply making up what YOU think I'm thinking. If you are not sure, you can just ask.

I'd call this projection.

Again, maybe this is projection. Someone already made this same observation and I replied that I don't claim to be an expert or insider knowledge. I have my own observations and experiences, we all do, and I have read widely from a variety of factual sources on this topic. That's what forms my opinions. No need to make it into something its not.

I'm sure you believe this and that's fine. I am only telling you how your posts are interpreted by some people. All of our posts are interpreted differently by different people. Welcome.

Originally Posted by honorgal

LOL...of all the numerous times you've tried to put words in my mouth, this one takes the cake.

Boohoo to you.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You are certainly not the only GCer who either knows people who work in a college/university or works at a college/university. You are also not the only GCer who knows alleged victims, alleged perpetrators, people who lied, people who were falsely accused, alleged victims who were telling the truth, etc. Therefore, many of us are well aware of these dynamics and still manage to have varying perspectives.

No, you see, when HG is/knows someone who falls into one of these groups, it makes her an expert, while when anyone else is/knows someone who falls into one of these groups, it means we are unable to escape the groupthink. OBV.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I'm sure you believe this and that's fine. I am only telling you how your posts are interpreted by some people. All of our posts are interpreted differently by different people. Welcome.




Boohoo to you.

Dont worry, I'm not crying. I think you are funny.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honorgal

I think you are funny.

Then you aren't as dense as you sometimes come across. Welcome.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Then you aren't as dense as you sometimes come across. Welcome.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...the language in Title IX puts reporting responsibility on anyone who a student could reasonably perceive to be representing the school, and there seems to be a growing consensus that such language includes a much larger number of faculty/staff members than had previously been trained on this stuff. I found this pretty surprising, because that means that, at some schools, students could report stuff to their academic adviser or professors or RA's, for example, and it wouldn't have gone anywhere. I'm glad that schools are working to remedy that, because 1) it means we'll get a better idea of the true stats, and from there, possibly be better able to address root causes, and 2) it means that victims who are reporting stuff are going to get the appropriate support at the U, rather than some untrained faculty or staff member having no idea what to do.

This aspect, at least, seems very uncontroversial. I don't see how it could possibly be a bad thing to make sure students get the proper support, and the fact that processes were this sloppy in the past underscores, IMO, the need for all these investigations and the attention to this issue.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...the language in Title IX puts reporting responsibility on anyone who a student could reasonably perceive to be representing the school, and there seems to be a growing consensus that such language includes a much larger number of faculty/staff members than had previously been trained on this stuff. I found this pretty surprising, because that means that, at some schools, students could report stuff to their academic adviser or professors or RA's, for example, and it wouldn't have gone anywhere. I'm glad that schools are working to remedy that, because 1) it means we'll get a better idea of the true stats, and from there, possibly be better able to address root causes, and 2) it means that victims who are reporting stuff are going to get the appropriate support at the U, rather than some untrained faculty or staff member having no idea what to do.

[b]This aspect, at least, seems very uncontroversial. I don't see how it could possibly be a bad thing to make sure students get the proper support, and the fact that processes were this sloppy in the past underscores, IMO, the need for all these investigations and the attention to this issue.

for anyone who is interested:

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/lis...cs/shguide.pdf
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/lis...4-title-ix.pdf
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/lis...gue-201104.pdf

[robinseggblue]

Honorgal, is this you?

http://www.salon.com/2014/12/11/prin...ng_experience/

[DrPhil]

Oh crap, not Princeton Mom again. Attention whore.

While we're at it, for most violent offenses and property offenses, the offender-victim relationship is that of family, friend, or acquaintance.

So, to save some much needed resources, let's remove all of these offenses from the books so they can no longer be punishable under the law.

Unless you've been victimized by a complete stranger, there is nothing society and the criminal justice system can and will do to help. I hope it was all a learning experience. Choose better company next time because, after all, we are the company we keep.

[1964Alum]

Honorgal posted:


ETA: My bias is not against any victim. My bias is against political ideology that has no principles and no regard for truth or facts. Last edited by honorgal; Yesterday at 05:16 PM.


It is clear to me that this has been a political rant all along. Go to any right wing blog like Free Republic dot com and you will find the same language. Honorgal posted a link to that very blog on her first go-around on this topic last spring. People on that particular blog are often told to go "Freep" online polls and message boards.

Now where is the "Ignore" button?

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

Honorgal posted:


ETA: My bias is not against any victim. My bias is against political ideology that has no principles and no regard for truth or facts. Last edited by honorgal; Yesterday at 05:16 PM.


It is clear to me that this has been a political rant all along. Go to any right wing blog like Free Republic dot com and you will find the same language. Honorgal posted a link to that very blog on her first go-around on this topic last spring. People on that particular blog are often told to go "Freep" online polls and message boards.

Now where is the "Ignore" button?

I have never posted a link to the Free Republic, on here or anywhere else. Can you show me the post? And while you are at it, perhaps you can show me the post that backs up your other baseless accusation.