I don't feel like voting this election

[1964Alum]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

I guarantee that if Trump is elected President, ISIS and many others will try to attack us repeatedly.

Originally Posted by thetalady

I don't think that ISIS has EVER needed any justification whatsoever to attack the US or Europeans. I don't think it matters to them who our president is. They will attack us again, no matter who the POTUS is.

I disagree. Saber-rattling, carpet-bombing talk only adds fuel to the fire and creates a recruiting tool for them. Our administration right now is quietly taking out Isis primary leaders and disrupting plans without a single collateral victim. How would you feel if your parents or children were killed by US weapons? I doubt you would have much love for them. And find it very hard not to want to get back in some way.

Our misguided War in Iraq created a whole generation of Isis members and destabilized the entire Middle East, as many of us both lay and professional predicted. We are reaping the bitter harvest of that now. Will Isis be able to slip through our defenses and attack us or our allies again? Quite possibly. IMO we need to look at the big picture. We have already been spared many attacks. And as someone up-thread said, we have the collaboration of our allies. A POTUS who is not respected on the international stage will destabilize what is now in place.

[DubaiSis]

Just to correct and clarify a smidge, the UAE, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Jordan and to a lesser extend Lebanon and Bahrain are stable. Yemen is stable but not in a way we like. Iran is stable but not in a way that American media like to discuss because it's easier to call them an evil empire than accept that they just don't run their government the same way we do. But their people are educated, fed and clothed, and I don't think there is any immediate threat of a coup.

Saudi Arabia continues to be a mess but that's internal and has little to do with us (except for us being complicit). Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey and Israel are unstable and fully the US' making. If you want to call Egypt Middle East, it is reasonably stable, but I wouldn't place bets on long term viability of any government. Maybe, maybe not.

Did I miss any? And please don't think of THE MIDDLE EAST as Iraq and Afghanistan. It is a big and peaceful place with minimal crime, great education, great food, great people and (mostly) fair governments. And any arguments against fairness needs to be compared to the atrocities the US government commits against its people.

[1964Alum]

^^^ Thanks for your insight, DubaiSis. Yes, I know that Middle Easterners as a culture are well known for their hospitality and generosity. Members of these violent, radical fringe groups are not at all representative of their larger cultures, either here in the US or in the Middle East. We certainly need mainstream and peace-loving Middle Easterners as our allies.

Are you still in Dubai? I have found that actually living in a foreign culture varies tremendously from what we are told about it. And the ideas I had about them before I got there!

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

I disagree. Saber-rattling, carpet-bombing talk only adds fuel to the fire and creates a recruiting tool for them. Our administration right now is quietly taking out Isis primary leaders and disrupting plans without a single collateral victim. How would you feel if your parents or children were killed by US weapons? I doubt you would have much love for them. And find it very hard not to want to get back in some way.

Our misguided War in Iraq created a whole generation of Isis members and destabilized the entire Middle East, as many of us both lay and professional predicted. We are reaping the bitter harvest of that now. Will Isis be able to slip through our defenses and attack us or our allies again? Quite possibly. IMO we need to look at the big picture. We have already been spared many attacks. And as someone up-thread said, we have the collaboration of our allies. A POTUS who is not respected on the international stage will destabilize what is now in place.

So you don't think that Obama is respected on the international stage, or at lest within the Middle East? I don't see how we will ever have a president more sympathetic toward the Middle East & Muslims in general than Obama.

[NWguy]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Just to correct and clarify a smidge, the UAE, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Jordan and to a lesser extend Lebanon and Bahrain are stable. Yemen is stable but not in a way we like. Iran is stable but not in a way that American media like to discuss because it's easier to call them an evil empire than accept that they just don't run their government the same way we do. But their people are educated, fed and clothed, and I don't think there is any immediate threat of a coup.

Saudi Arabia continues to be a mess but that's internal and has little to do with us (except for us being complicit). Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey and Israel are unstable and fully the US' making. If you want to call Egypt Middle East, it is reasonably stable, but I wouldn't place bets on long term viability of any government. Maybe, maybe not.

Did I miss any? And please don't think of THE MIDDLE EAST as Iraq and Afghanistan. It is a big and peaceful place with minimal crime, great education, great food, great people and (mostly) fair governments. And any arguments against fairness needs to be compared to the atrocities the US government commits against its people.

Unless you addressed Syria in a different post, that one is missing. And that's a big one, because so much activity in recent years and months has taken place in Syria.

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

^^^ Thanks for your insight, DubaiSis. Yes, I know that Middle Easterners as a culture are well known for their hospitality and generosity. Members of these violent, radical fringe groups are not at all representative of their larger cultures, either here in the US or in the Middle East. We certainly need mainstream and peace-loving Middle Easterners as our allies.

Are you still in Dubai? I have found that actually living in a foreign culture varies tremendously from what we are told about it. And the ideas I had about them before I got there!

No, I'm in Kansas City. Cuz you know. Same/same. LOL.
And as far as how Arabs (and the entire rest of the world frankly) see president Obama, they ADORE him. And when you live outside the US you get to spend a great deal of time trying to explain why American government is they way it is. "You mean your people would seriously let a person die as opposed to providing good healthcare?" "Well, yes." And try to explain the candidacy of the candidate who shall go unnamed to a German. Good luck with that.

[1964Alum]

^^^ Thetalady, Oh, no, Obama is respected internationally. For several years running he has been named the Most Admired Man internationally. DubaiSis likely has a better take on that than I for that part of the world.

I get first hand reports from friends in Colombia, specifically the northern Caribbean coast. This includes Colombians as well as a former country director. I also read the online papers in Colombia, both the two national newspapers as well as those on the coast. The Cartagena newspaper called Obama "The Best Mayor Cartagena Has Ever Had!", this for Obama's successful plan to put into place personal security measures to attract travelers to their World Heritage city. It worked. The last time I was there (2010) there were tourists from literally all over the world. The drug violence there has been greatly diminished. Not entirely gone, but substantially diminished. The current president has continued this progress.

But I digress. I'm not sure I understand what you are suggesting. It was Obama who tracked down and eliminated Osama Bin Laden as well as other Al Queda and ISIS/ISIL kingpins. He doesn't paint all Muslims/Middle Easterners with the same brush. Nor should he or anyone else IMO.

[1964Alum]

DubaiSis posted:

"No, I'm in Kansas City. Cuz you know. Same/same. LOL.
And as far as how Arabs (and the entire rest of the world frankly) see president Obama, they ADORE him. And when you live outside the US you get to spend a great deal of time trying to explain why American government is they way it is. "You mean your people would seriously let a person die as opposed to providing good healthcare?" "Well, yes." And try to explain the candidacy of the candidate who shall go unnamed to a German. Good luck with that."

Oh, yes, I experienced that all the time in my site during my two years in Colombia. One thing that we Peace Corps volunteers were very, very good at was presenting and creating another view of Americans. I was initially surprised and how closely they followed what goes on here in the US. Going back to my old stomping grounds on the northern coast, people in Cartagena thought I was Colombian, then Venezuelan, then Chilean, then Spanish, LOL! (My Spanish is pretty darn fluent!) So I heard many a candid thought about the USA.

Europeans are also very candid with me as for better or worse they don't peg me as an American. It's a real eye-opener to see our country through other eyes. And why they see us that way.

[NWguy]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

No, I'm in Kansas City. Cuz you know. Same/same. LOL.
And as far as how Arabs (and the entire rest of the world frankly) see president Obama, they ADORE him. And when you live outside the US you get to spend a great deal of time trying to explain why American government is they way it is. "You mean your people would seriously let a person die as opposed to providing good healthcare?" "Well, yes." And try to explain the candidacy of the candidate who shall go unnamed to a German. Good luck with that.

"You mean your people would seriously let a person die as opposed to providing good healthcare?"

My response wouldn't been: "Yeah, you mean your people slice someone's head off in public for having an affair, opposing Islam and listening to Western pop music?"

I think that I'd rather have no healthcare.

[Benzgirl]

I was 7th in line this morning to vote. I didn' vote for who I want on the November ballot but voted against who I don't want to see. It's entirely strategic and I hope my plan works out.

[NWguy]

Looks like Kasich won his home state convincingly.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by NWguy

Looks like Kasich won his home state convincingly.

A lot of Democrats that plan to vote for HRC in November crossed the aisle today to make sure Trump wouldn't take the state. I know a lot of my friends did; even my 84 year old father said he would do anything to block a Trump vote. The hashtag I am seeing all over Facebook is #NotInMyState

I wish I could remember the exact statistic but the last time a Republican won the Presidency without taking Ohio in the Primary was in 19xx (xx = a very long time ago)

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by NWguy

My response wouldn't been: "Yeah, you mean your people slice someone's head off in public for having an affair, opposing Islam and listening to Western pop music?"

First, as long as the US continues to commit capital punishment we don't have a leg to stand on. And at least beheadings are instant. Secondly, please refer above to the Middle East is not Saudi Arabia. Beheadings are legal in Saudi Arabia (our ally), Qatar (our ally), Iran and Yemen. And I believe only in Saudi and Iran are they public spectacle. And of course in the US they are very much public spectacle. Most of the spectators just don't get to be inside watching the mayhem.

I would rather have no capital punishment and treat our citizens with dignity. Until then I'd rather have the ones who we choose not to slaughter be treated with dignity. And that means healthcare and education.

[TonyB06]

President Obama's Supreme Court nomination...basically y'all take this 63-year-old highly qualified moderate jurist or wait for Hillary to nominate a 40-year-old liberal who will give y'all the bizness end for 30+ years. ....assuming y'all don't want to bet on Trump.

I see what you did, Mr. President.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

First, as long as the US continues to commit capital punishment we don't have a leg to stand on. And at least beheadings are instant. Secondly, please refer above to the Middle East is not Saudi Arabia. Beheadings are legal in Saudi Arabia (our ally), Qatar (our ally), Iran and Yemen. And I believe only in Saudi and Iran are they public spectacle. And of course in the US they are very much public spectacle. Most of the spectators just don't get to be inside watching the mayhem.

I would rather have no capital punishment and treat our citizens with dignity. Until then I'd rather have the ones who we choose not to slaughter be treated with dignity. And that means healthcare and education.

this (major +1, again)

Originally Posted by TonyB06

President Obama's Supreme Court nomination...basically y'all take this 63-year-old highly qualified moderate jurist or wait for Hillary to nominate a 40-year-old liberal who will give y'all the bizness end for 30+ years. ....assuming y'all don't want to bet on Trump.

I see what you did, Mr. President.

And this.

As for voting: it is a civic duty and responsibility. My feelings have nothing to do with it. It's on me to be informed, and act accordingly.