Mississippi Election Row Sees Race Roles Reversed

[Kevin]

Mississippi election row sees race roles reversed

Amid fingerpointing, Justice Department and black Democratic chairman fail to come up with a remedy.

By Patrik Jonsson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor from the August 17, 2007 edition Macon, Miss. - As Noxubee County voters last week took to firehouses and community halls from Prairie Point to Shuqualak, hints of old Mississippi hung over the polls. Federal election observers witnessed:


•Suspicious manipulation of minority voters' ballots.


•Hired hands at the polls working to "assist" voters in selecting certain candidates.


•A suspiciously large number of absentee ballots in a county where, inexplicably, 127 percent of the adult population is registered to vote.
But nothing is quite what it seems in Noxubee. The minority here is white. Local politics is dominated by blacks. In a further twist, blacks here charge that the US Justice Department investigation into political manipulation is in part an act of intimidation intended to give Republicans a foothold in staunchly Democratically controlled local governments.


"This story has all these odd sort of mirror-image resonances," says Steven Mulroy, a University of Memphis law professor and former Justice Department civil rights attorney. "It used to be local officials that intimidated black voters and federal people came in to stop it. Now you've got black voters saying it's federal observers doing the intimidating."

Rest of story: http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0817/p...sju.html?s=hns

-- So is this bad, or is it justice?



Whites in the South did this sort of thing to minority voters for many, many years. Some would argue that such oppression still occurs. Is this justified by history? Or does history merely explain it? Do black voters feel as if they must stuff the ballot boxes, or else, they'll get out-stuffed by the minority whites?

I really didn't think this stuff still really went on anymore.

[AlphaFrog]

Just a general question.... How accurate/reliable is "The Christian Science Monitor"?? It seems like a publication that would be extremely biased and skewed.

[Kevin]

It's reliable. Probably more reliable than a newspaper produced by corporate conglomerates. Other than one religious story per day (which is clearly identified) the rest of the paper focuses on real news. At any rate, this article seems to be citing a number of sources, so the integrity of this particular article, at least in my opinion isn't questionable at all.

[Drolefille]

Not commenting on the article itself, but the Christian Science Monitor is very reputable.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So is this bad, or is it justice? Is this justified by history? Or does history merely explain it? Do black voters feel as if they must stuff the ballot boxes, or else, they'll get out-stuffed by the minority whites?

I really didn't think this stuff still really went on anymore.

It is only my opinion...

This situation is bad and history merely explains it. There is NO justification for stuffing ANY ballot boxes ANYWHERE no matter WHO you are.

Notice how the Christian Science Monitor did not name the Feds. They themselves are probably African American trying to do the right thing by the State... But, I am not from Mississippi and I have never lived there. All I know is A LOT folks want to leave if they haven't already.

Why are Black folks in MS doing this? "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely..." (Lord Acton, 1887).

2 wrongs don't make a right, but it sure does make it even... Or 3 rights make a left? Is it justice or JUST US?

[DeltAlum]

That's quite an answer, Monet.

The most important part, I think, is:

"There is NO justification for stuffing ANY ballot boxes ANYWHERE no matter WHO you are."

Maybe we should add, "And there never was," but we can't revise history.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

It is only my opinion...

This situation is bad and history merely explains it. There is NO justification for stuffing ANY ballot boxes ANYWHERE no matter WHO you are.

I agree with that. I was just wondering (and anyone can tell me) whether there's stuffing going on for both sides?

The media certainly doesn't help the situation when they rove around battleground states giving air time and credence to the members of the loosing party who have stories about the police impeding their access to vote, etc. Of course, those stories may be on the up and up. I have no idea as I've never been a repressed minority (unless you count being a Catholic in Oklahoma).

Notice how the Christian Science Monitor did not name the Feds. They themselves are probably African American trying to do the right thing by the State... But, I am not from Mississippi and I have never lived there. All I know is A LOT folks want to leave if they haven't already.

It sounds like what you're saying is correct regarding the feds. I honestly am unconcerned whether they are A.A. or not -- that they're carrying out the letter of the law without fear of reprisal from Mr. Brown (the election supervisor who condones and promotes these alleged corrupt practices) is enough to earn my seal of approval. I suppose that factor might validate the feelings of many who would hope that this is a lawful vs. unlawful fight rather than a political, or worse, racial one. I fear the later to be the case, however.

Why are Black folks in MS doing this? "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely..." (Lord Acton, 1887).

It could get very interesting down there if the closed primary forced most Republicans to switch tickets, thus watering down the Democrat base. I think in the long run, this more-less exposes the weaknesses of the closed primary system and how it tends to disenfranchise minority-party voters.

2 wrongs don't make a right, but it sure does make it even... Or 3 rights make a left? Is it justice or JUST US?

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that the above is an impression of another poster on this forum.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Maybe we should add, "And there never was," but we can't revise history.

C'mon, MS is NOTORIOUS for voter fraud and tampering over 30-40 years ago... That is WHY Eldridge Cleaver and the three young voter registrars were killed... It is a very ugly and negative chapter in history.

The only reason I know is because it was drilled in my head as a child by my parents. Whether that makes it right or wrong, who knows? But my husband's parents gave the middle name of "Eldridge" to my husband and "Cleaver" to his brother's middle name (dunno if that sounds right)?

Originally Posted by Kevin

I was just wondering whether there's stuffing going on for both sides?

The media certainly doesn't help the situation when they rove around battleground states giving air time and credence to the members of the loosing party who have stories about the police impeding their access to vote, etc. Of course, those stories may be on the up and up. I have no idea as I've never been a repressed minority (unless you count being a Catholic in Oklahoma).

In the past, there was stuffing throughout the South before the Voting Rights Act... That is why President Lyndon Johnson signed the Act into law.

Now, I wouldn't know if there is stuffing boxes in MS in one racial group vs. another. There may be stuffing in that one county, Noxubee unfortunately done by AfAms, who may be thinking that it is okay to turn the tables as retribution. But, wrong is wrong. Vote fraud is overall foul.

I suppose that factor might validate the feelings of many who would hope that this is a lawful vs. unlawful fight rather than a political, or worse, racial one. I fear the later to be the case, however.

Kevin, I really don't think so, if we were truly discussing completely disenfranchised people, that would be one thing. It is a totally different situation from the viewpoint of representation "by the people, for the people".

MS is dead last on several measures - education, health and economic poverty. I think Toyota is leaving and Boeing is avoiding them... There is very little economic success in that state. It is a VERY sad state of affairs. Places like Darfur in the Sudan and Rwanda combined have better economies. That reflects very poorly on the US.

But after Hurricane Katrina, MS, got SOME FEMA assistance... But back to pre-Katrina levels--no.

It could get very interesting down there if the closed primary forced most Republicans to switch tickets, thus watering down the Democrat base. I think in the long run, this more-less exposes the weaknesses of the closed primary system and how it tends to disenfranchise minority-party voters.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that the above is an impression of another poster on this forum.

The issue I think in MS is most AfAms down there do not trust the Republican party. IMHO, that is the problem with the South verses the West Coast, they are still so segregated that people fail to communicate. Confrontation and shouting matches probably don't occur because of the avoidance. So no one ever knows what is really going on if they choose to not speak or fail to communicate.

Whereas, the Caucasian folks have yet to deal with their own issues.

IMHO there sorely needs some "Redemption conferences" to move beyond the hatred.

PM me to know who you think it is.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

C'mon, MS is NOTORIOUS for voter fraud and tampering over 30-40 years ago... That is WHY Eldridge Cleaver and the three young voter registrars were killed... It is a very ugly and negative chapter in history.

The only reason I know is because it was drilled in my head as a child by my parents. Whether that makes it right or wrong, who knows? But my husband's parents gave the middle name of "Eldridge" to my husband and "Cleaver" to his brother's middle name (dunno if that sounds right)?

Just a historical point: Eldridge Cleaver was not killed due to racial problems in Mississippi. He died in 1998.

I think you meant Medger Evers. He was one of the leaders of the NAACP in Jackson, MS. He was murdered arriving home after a meeting. It is the case that the movie "Ghosts of Mississippi" covered.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

Just a historical point: Eldridge Cleaver was not killed due to racial problems in Mississippi. He died in 1998.

I think you meant Medger Evers. He was one of the leaders of the NAACP in Jackson, MS. He was murdered arriving home after a meeting. It is the case that the movie "Ghosts of Mississippi" covered.

Thank you sweetheart. My sometimer's is acting up...

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

C'mon, MS is NOTORIOUS for voter fraud and tampering over 30-40 years ago... That is WHY Eldridge Cleaver and the three young voter registrars were killed... It is a very ugly and negative chapter in history.

Right. I may not have made myself clear. My thought was that there never was a reason to stuff a ballot box -- not that it never happened.

I was in high school and college when what we call the Civil Rights Movement began and remember much (not all) of what was going on then.

"Ugly" is not strong enough to describe what went on, but I don't have a better word.

[kafromTN]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

MS is dead last on several measures - education, health and economic poverty. I think Toyota is leaving and Boeing is avoiding them... There is very little economic success in that state. It is a VERY sad state of affairs. Places like Darfur in the Sudan and Rwanda combined have better economies. That reflects very poorly on the US.

Actually Toyota is building a new $1.3 billion plant in MS along Corridor X (future I-22), the economic conditions in MS have been steadily improving ever since casinos have been allowed.


I do agree there are some areas that are behind economically the rest of the U.S. I by no means would or even could compare it to Darfur. True in the MS delta the average family may not have air conditioning, televisions, cable or late model cars, but they are far better off economically than Darfur. Way more people die in Darfur due to poor living conditions than in MS, I think it is a an extreme stretch to even compare the two since "poverty" is relative.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by kafromTN

Actually Toyota is building a new $1.3 billion plant in MS along Corridor X (future I-22), the economic conditions in MS have been steadily improving ever since casinos have been allowed.

Thanks for the information about Toyota. That is good. I also know that casino monies do not often translate to infrastructure improvements and increased social programs to decrease poverty, which has been a problem for MS for a very long time.

Originally Posted by kafromTN

I do agree there are some areas that are behind economically the rest of the U.S. I by no means would or even could compare it to Darfur. True in the MS delta the average family may not have air conditioning, televisions, cable or late model cars, but they are far better off economically than Darfur. Way more people die in Darfur due to poor living conditions than in MS, I think it is a an extreme stretch to even compare the two since "poverty" is relative.

Have you ever heard about exaggeration to hone in on points? The fact is, WE--ALL OF US--need to right by OUR citizens in poorer states than California and New York. And I think Mississippi and Louisiana has been suffering too long without assistance that they sorely deserve.

What is at stake here is not more poverty... What is at stake is succession, again.

[Kevin]

What kind of help do these people "deserve"?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What kind of help do these people "deserve"?

Ironically, this is one of those points that kind of goes against your general railing against people who don't help themselves, isn't it?

I mean, this is somewhat "backwoods" in that there aren't opportunities or services available nearby, and they lack any sort of money so moving doesn't really seem like a possibility either.

I generally dislike the term "deserve" myself, but here I feel like aid could really have a much more explicit goal of integrating these people into the "city" (or town, really) workforce and moving them from the dregs of civilization.