What to do when you know something sensitive about PNMs?

[sigmagirl10]

I'm recruitment chair for my chapter--we just recently colonized and are holding an informal (but still structured) recruitment in April. We have quite a list of girls who we know are planning on/interested in participating in recruitment, but not too long ago one of our members (who knows a couple of the girls) revealed some information to us about several of the girls on our list--that they have been arrested and received alcohol citations. We're not sure how to approach this, as obviously the girls are liabilities in terms of risk management, and along with some other behavior we know about them, are liabilities in terms of our reputation. Since we're new on campus, of course we're worried about that, and we're also really trying to increase our numbers.
The question is, how do we deal with this? We want to give out as many bids as possible, and besides the alcohol stuff, these girls would really be assets to our chapter--we don't know what to do! Please help/opinions.

[Just interested]

An advisor should be able to advise you.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl10

I'm recruitment chair for my chapter--we just recently colonized and are holding an informal (but still structured) recruitment in April. We have quite a list of girls who we know are planning on/interested in participating in recruitment, but not too long ago one of our members (who knows a couple of the girls) revealed some information to us about several of the girls on our list--that they have been arrested and received alcohol citations. We're not sure how to approach this, as obviously the girls are liabilities in terms of risk management, and along with some other behavior we know about them, are liabilities in terms of our reputation. Since we're new on campus, of course we're worried about that, and we're also really trying to increase our numbers.
The question is, how do we deal with this? We want to give out as many bids as possible, and besides the alcohol stuff, these girls would really be assets to our chapter--we don't know what to do! Please help/opinions.

Not being privy (and not wanting to be) to your membership selection guidelines, figure out how your organization handles a "no confidence" vote,

Or, you can treat EVERY pnm the same and do a background check so that you know if they have been arrested/charged and decide to dismiss all pnms who meet whatever criteria you set,

Or, you can ignore one person's rumors about "reputation" and get to know the girls yourself.

[MysticCat]

I'm confused. In one place you say (with my emphasis):

Originally Posted by sigmagirl10

We're not sure how to approach this, as obviously the girls are liabilities in terms of risk management, and along with some other behavior we know about them, are liabilities in terms of our reputation.

But then you say:

We want to give out as many bids as possible, and besides the alcohol stuff, these girls would really be assets to our chapter.

Which is it? Would they be assets or would their behavior be a liability? Is this just about the alcohol issues (which are in the past and may stay in the past) or is there more?

I agree that this is something to talk with an advisor about.

[33girl]

Define "arrested" and "alcohol citations." Were they drunk and naked in the middle of the town square, or was it from a high school party where they had one beer? It would be ridiculous to not bid someone because of a HS indiscretion - if we all operated that way, we wouldn't have sororities.

You're right to worry about your campus reputation - since things done in the early days are often something that chapters never recover from. But quite frankly, I think giving bids to girls who are socially backward or unliked (but who've never had a drop of alcohol) would do far more damage to the image of your chapter.

[sigmagirl10]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

Or, you can ignore one person's rumors about "reputation" and get to know the girls yourself.

I am familiar with the girls myself--not friends (as one of my sisters is, the one who gave us the information) but certainly acquaintances, and I've seen some of their questionable behavior myself.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Which is it? Would they be assets or would their behavior be a liability? Is this just about the alcohol issues (which are in the past and may stay in the past) or is there more?

The main issue is the alcohol issues, both the citations and the behavior some of us have witnessed (let's just say they spend waaaaayyy too much time at a particular fraternity)--an obvious liability, as well as possibly making some of our shyer sisters uncomfortable. Beyond that, they are the sweetest, nicest girls, very pretty, with definite leadership potential.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Define "arrested" and "alcohol citations." Were they drunk and naked in the middle of the town square, or was it from a high school party where they had one beer? It would be ridiculous to not bid someone because of a HS indiscretion - if we all operated that way, we wouldn't have sororities.

You're right to worry about your campus reputation - since things done in the early days are often something that chapters never recover from. But quite frankly, I think giving bids to girls who are socially backward or unliked (but who've never had a drop of alcohol) would do far more damage to the image of your chapter.

It's not about whether or not they've had alcohol (come on, we're in college!) it's whether they can be discrete and ladylike about it. We pride ourselves on classy behavior, traditional values, and high academic achievement...but it was not high school, it was a citation in the last couple of months (which they all got)--some unfortunate incident involving minors in possession though I'm not sure the exact circumstances.

[33girl]

Getting an MIP has nothing to do with being "ladylike" - you can get an MIP sitting in your apartment drinking a glass of Arbor Mist. But if they're getting shitfaced and doing all the Sigma Chis on a weekly basis, then that could be a real problem and you probably shouldn't bid them.

And those "shyer sisters" need to get used to being around all kinds of women, the sooner the better. I would hardly use their discomfort as a reason not to bid someone.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

And those "shyer sisters" need to get used to being around all kinds of women, the sooner the better. I would hardly use their discomfort as a reason not to bid someone.

Unless of course they're shying away from drunk sluts who get arrested.

No one here is going to be able to tell you what to do in this situation, because we don't know the girls personally, and we don't know the full scope of the situation. Your chapter will have to make the decision that they feel is best for them.

However, I will say this:

DO NOT give a bid to anyone that you feel is unsuitable for your chapter simply because you need numbers!

I guarantee that there are plenty of other girls on your campus who would make great sisters, and you don't need to "settle" simply because you want a larger pledge class.

[ThetaPrincess24]

As a recruitment advisor myself, my advice would be to talk to your advisor (or if you dont have one talk to your district/regional advisor/officer over recruitment, if you dont have one of those, talk to the respective advisor at your HQ) about "no confidence" voting and your concerns.

Here are a few things I like to teach the young women of the chapter I advise that may be helpful to you:

Look at the entire picture of a PNM. Yes they may have a great personality, but what about everything else? Are their academics in the toilet? Would their behaviors cause a risk management issue? Are they of the belief that fun cannot be had unless alcohol and/or boys are always involved? How well to they present themselves(if they dont take pride in their appearance in recruitment are they going to take pride in their appearance when representing the chapter on campus and/or to alumnae)? If you already know them, are they reliable? Do they show up when they say they will or blow things off? Do they occasionally use inappropriate language in an appropriate setting or are they constantly using inappropriate language regardless of the situation? Are they someone who enjoys drama to the point of moving a chapter backwards rather than forwards?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl10

these girls would really be assets to our chapter--we don't know what to do! Please help/opinions.

Question: Why do you feel they would be assets to your chapter?

Maybe there's a PNM who has made a few small mistakes in the past, but her grades are amazing, she's involved on campus, and she helps out at a soup kitchen every weekend. That would be something that you could work with, and you might be able to look past those issues (assuming that they're nothing too outrageous).

However, if you're analyzing a PNM, and you find yourself answering "yes" to many of these questions:

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

Look at the entire picture of a PNM. Yes they may have a great personality, but what about everything else? Are their academics in the toilet? Would their behaviors cause a risk management issue? Are they of the belief that fun cannot be had unless alcohol and/or boys are always involved? How well to they present themselves(if they dont take pride in their appearance in recruitment are they going to take pride in their appearance when representing the chapter on campus and/or to alumnae)? Do they show up when they say they will or blow things off? Do they occasionally use inappropriate language in an appropriate setting or are they constantly using inappropriate language regardless of the situation? Are they someone who enjoys drama to the point of moving a chapter backwards rather than forwards?

... and the PNM has nothing else going for her except she's fun to hang out with, that would probably be a completely different story.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Unless of course they're shying away from drunk sluts who get arrested.

My point was that just sounded like fishing for an excuse, and if you really have members who are such delicate flowers that they wilt away at the least hint of sex or alcohol, you're going to have a very dull chapter if you cater all your bidding so as not to "upset" them.

If you're being pressured (from within or from above) to pledge tons of girls just to pledge tons of girls - don't sugar coat it when telling whoever the pressurer is WHY you don't want to bid these girls (or any other girls for that matter). "They've done some questionable things" doesn't cut it. "They chugged a bottle of Jack and pulled a train with the whole TKE pledge class" does.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl10

I am familiar with the girls myself--not friends (as one of my sisters is, the one who gave us the information) but certainly acquaintances, and I've seen some of their questionable behavior myself.

The main issue is the alcohol issues, both the citations and the behavior some of us have witnessed (let's just say they spend waaaaayyy too much time at a particular fraternity)--an obvious liability, as well as possibly making some of our shyer sisters uncomfortable. Beyond that, they are the sweetest, nicest girls, very pretty, with definite leadership potential.
It's not about whether or not they've had alcohol (come on, we're in college!) it's whether they can be discrete and ladylike about it. We pride ourselves on classy behavior, traditional values, and high academic achievement...but it was not high school, it was a citation in the last couple of months (which they all got)--some unfortunate incident involving minors in possession though I'm not sure the exact circumstances.

1. If YOU witnessed the behavior then don't credit someone else:

"but not too long ago one of our members (who knows a couple of the girls) revealed some information to us about several of the girls on our list"

2. Who cares which guys they spend time with?

3. You keep contradicting yourself.

If you don't want to offer someone a bid, then DON'T GIVE THEM A BID. Posting negative information about PNMs or info regarding issues within your membership selection process, ESPECIALLY with a name that hints to your affiliation, is a NO-NO. Colony or not, you should already know that. If you don't, now is the time to learn your lesson and keep chapter issues WITHIN the chapter.

Why people don't go to their advisors is beyond me (and yes, this is an issue that new members of a colony should discuss with an advisor or trusted alumnae (from a different chapter of course, bc they are new) - how to weed out PNMs).

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

2. Who cares which guys they spend time with?

I don't think it's WHICH guys, rather the amount of time and depth (no pun) of time. In other words I don't think it's a "they're hanging out with a geeky fraternity" issue.

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

Why people don't go to their advisors is beyond me.

If they have a relatively new chapter, they might have advisors that are not familiar with their campus at all and that can hurt. Pledging the party girl is a coup on one campus, social suicide on another. The question is how far these girls have gone along those lines...I mean at some point, a ho is a ho.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

My point was that just sounded like fishing for an excuse, and if you really have members who are such delicate flowers that they wilt away at the least hint of sex or alcohol, you're going to have a very dull chapter if you cater all your bidding so as not to "upset" them.

Oh, yea.. I totally got that. But I wasn't sure to what degree these sisters were "shy". If you have sisters that don't approve of alcohol being consumed at all, and they think they shouldn't give out bids based on that, yes, it's ridiculous. On the other hand, if the sisters are afraid to give these girls letters because they believe that they'll legitimately ruin the reputation of the chapter, then they have every right to feel that way.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I don't think it's WHICH guys, rather the amount of time and depth (no pun) of time. In other words I don't think it's a "they're hanging out with a geeky fraternity" issue.



If they have a relatively new chapter, they might have advisors that are not familiar with their campus at all and that can hurt. Pledging the party girl is a coup on one campus, social suicide on another. The question is how far these girls have gone along those lines...I mean at some point, a ho is a ho.

I was thinking in terms of how to approach making the choices/voting/pinning the tail on the donkey. These girls obviously haven't had to make MS decisions yet. An adviser might be able to give them general suggestions on things to look for, methods of discussions - pro/con lists, role playing, etc. The adviser may not know the campus culture or any of the girls themselves, but guaranteed, as a collegiate member (or part of any type of group or team where decisions had to be made), they faced tough decisions similar to what the colony is going through. An intelligent adult should be capable of helping the girls recognize potential, weigh possible risk factors, and be able to make informed decisions.

A colony faces the challenge of "getting it right" the first time, both in who receives bids, and how they behave (or are perceived on campus). Everyone is looking for them to either succeed or fail. However. their chapter needs to come up with a way for evaluating PNMs (if they are operating outside, in addition to, or without existing MS practices). But there are tried and true methods of making any group decisions, including:

- majority vote
- secret ballot
- veto power
- floor discussions followed by vote


THAT Is what I meant by asking an adviser. Suggestions on HOW TO REACH a consensus or at least, standards agreeable to the majority of stakeholders.

To the OP - make some lists. Write down what is acceptable, what is negotiable, and what's a deal breaker. You better make sure that everything on that list is something that you can trace/confirm on some level. This should at least give you a starting point. Does that help????

Example:

Acceptable - occasional drinker
Negotiable - the girl who got drunk in the quad and passed out because she didn't know the koolaid was spiked
Not acceptable - arrest and charge for DUI


Acceptable - flirty, fun girl wearing cute short skirt
Negotiable - girl who is friendly with a lot of guys and sat on the lap of dude who isn't her bf but he happens to be her best friends from home since grade school
Not acceptable - girl sexting her own pics to fraternity guys