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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


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  #61  
Old 05-08-2003, 11:42 AM
AlphaXi4983 AlphaXi4983 is offline
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I am aboslutely disgusted by this article. Why would you ever intentionally harm someone? In high school, the seniors on the varsity teams would haze the freshmen on the varsity teams for a week, but it was like all the freshman had to wear grass skirts or hawaiian things, or shirts that the seniors made that said "seniors rock" or "freshman suck" and the football/lax teams shaved the heads of the freshman varsity players, but nothing harmful. We hazed in the marching band during the first week of the year, but it was nothing horrible, making the freshmen/new members do drills longer or harder than the upperclassmen, but if they were uncomfortable or felt ill we let them out without a thought. What we did was in good humor and out of tradition and we NEVER forced anyone to do something that would hurt them or made them feel uncomfortable. What happened at this high school is just absolutely barbaric.
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  #62  
Old 05-08-2003, 11:47 AM
LXAAlum LXAAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlphaXi4983
What we did was in good humor and out of tradition and we NEVER forced anyone to do something that would hurt them or made them feel uncomfortable. What happened at this high school is just absolutely barbaric.
Therein lies the problem - I would assume all hazing begins with the best of intentions to have fun, and "tradition" - but remember, in high school and college, our knowledge of tradition is only 4 years old...and things can slowly turn out of hand.

Leave it to one Senior that has some sort of grudge on one freshman to make it a little harder for that person, then you get the whole class making it harder, and harder, and harder....

I'm not pointing a finger of blame at you- it sounds like things were kept under control. This new situation mushroomed because it took place away from school grounds...
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  #63  
Old 05-08-2003, 12:17 PM
MoxieGrrl MoxieGrrl is offline
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This morning, two of the junior girls were on The Early Show with their lawyer. Matt Lauer asked them, "Did you ever think to tell them to stop?" The girls said no because they were too afraid.

Ok, this makes no sense to me. If someone was punching me in the face, I would be screaming bloody murder for them to stop! Peer pressure to be a part of the cool crowd would not override physical pain. Especially in this situation where it looked like a free for all.

Has it not been established that if you allow yourself to be hazed, you are just as guilty as the hazers? (That wasn't meant to be rhetorical; I seriously don't know)
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  #64  
Old 05-08-2003, 12:29 PM
precious25 precious25 is offline
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The 8th graders in my area used to haze the 6th graders at the end of the year who were going to be 7th garders next year and going to thier jr high. you would see all the kids walking home from school covered in flour and shaving cream. one year i heard they were putting nair in the girls hair and stuff like that. no one cared or did anything about it.
In high school we had the thespians, a drama group, which i guess was hard to get into. if you did get in you would get hazed for a week, you had to wear rediculous outfits to school and if a thespian asked "how do you feel?" you have to get up and yell "I FEEL GOOD, OOH I FEEL SO GOOD HUH!" everyone else really enjoyed the show that week... they would make the new kids run thru the cafeteria singing mary had a little lamb or get up on tables and make speeches. the school never bugged them, and no other groups really hazed (if they did it was mild enough that no one knew).
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  #65  
Old 05-08-2003, 12:38 PM
LXAAlum LXAAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by precious25

In high school we had the thespians, a drama group, which i guess was hard to get into. if you did get in you would get hazed for a week, you had to wear rediculous outfits to school and if a thespian asked "how do you feel?" you have to get up and yell "I FEEL GOOD, OOH I FEEL SO GOOD HUH!" everyone else really enjoyed the show that week... they would make the new kids run thru the cafeteria singing mary had a little lamb or get up on tables and make speeches. the school never bugged them, and no other groups really hazed (if they did it was mild enough that no one knew).
I, too, endured thespian hazing - I had to dress as Snoopy for a day, and allow the other thespian upperclassmen to beat me with a rolled up newspaper if they wanted to.

Thankfully, I only had to deal with the humiliation of the outfit - and only one senior, a good friend of mine, acted "the beating" - it looked bad, but he didn't hit me hard at all.

That's the only high school hazing I endured.

However, the most serious hazing occurred for me in the Navy - crossing the Equator was very bad, and the Captain even put a stop to some of it due to safety concerns (he happened to be a Sigma Chi)....that and boot camp was awfully rough.
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  #66  
Old 05-08-2003, 12:51 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Angry Grrr...

This reminds me of my high school, even though nothing like this occured (to my knowledge, at least). There was a lot of pressure to conform, and we had essentially the equivalent of high school sororities/fraternities (complete with rush-like teas) that were probably harder to get into than my own sorority.

Anyway, the fact that this kid whose father's trying to justify his apathy is going into the Marines scares the hell out of me...what would he do to protect our nation if he can't protect his classmates when feces and pigs' intestines are being thrown at them? I also loved how the son was removed from any and all implication in the article...including the fact that "he wasn't drinking."

Yet another reminder why I am so glad not to be in high school now.
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  #67  
Old 05-08-2003, 01:32 PM
AXJules AXJules is offline
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Powderpuff at GBN began in 77, when it was used as a Homecoming fundraiser on campus. In 80 it was banned b/c most of the crowd watching got too drunk and rowdy. Girls had been gettting increasingly physical so the school stopped it.

It continued to go on, underground, every May afterward. IThere is a HUGE amount of pressure to go through with it. If you've seen Dazed and Confused its really similar to that - if I remember correctly no one was physically hurt, it was just kind of demeaning stuff that the girls shrug off as "initiation."

There is an unwritten rule that no one will be injured purposely (as I said, there's usually like 1 one on one fight each year, but it doesn't take place at the event, its usually before or after.) The biggest unwritten rule is that boys are NEVER allowed to participate. They all watch and cheer it on (more degrading to the juniors) but NEVER join in. There's also an unwritten rule that if someone is bleeding, they are taken out of the game. Believe it or not every year I was at GBN these rules were followed to a T.

Everyone has a sister or friend who's been to one, and we've all seen the tapes at least once or twice at a party the weekend after.


Either way, this mob mentality present this year has NEVER been ok at Powderpuff.
Essentially, the girls show up at school Monday wearing their bruises proudly. They're like battle wounds. It means they're basically seniors, since the seniors usually graduate the week after it happens. When I first heard that powderpuff was on the news, I thought it was stupid. They know exactly what they're getting into. However, once more information came out I think the injuries are no worse than normal, but the ACTIONS aren't even comparable. They were totally inhumane.

Last edited by AXJules; 11-06-2004 at 01:20 AM.
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  #68  
Old 05-08-2003, 01:52 PM
AXJules AXJules is offline
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This past Sunday, the crowd met at Chipilly Woods. Apparently they tried to actually have a football game, but it quickly escalated into the sick video you saw.

What did not- no one purposely broke that girl's ankle. Chipilly Woods is really hilly and the ground has tons of holes in it, she was walking and stepped on it incorrectly. None of the guys sexually abused the girls in any way, shape, or form.
Again I'm not sitting here going, "hey at least they didn't do this!" but I'm sick of hearing people say things that didn't happen.

Glenbrook North is one of the top 5 high schools in the country, with about 2000 students. We've been given awards for leadership, academics, state sports, and the degree to which all of the students get along.
In the 4 years I went to school there, there were 2 fights on school property. The students have class, and just because 10 girls who need to have charges filed against them went out of control, does not mean that the whole HS is crap. Anyone would be lucky to grow up on the North Shore of Chicago and graduate from GBN, New Trier, GBS, or Stevenson.

Yes, I think the students of the ENTIRE area can be accused of being snobby and being handed much of what they have. But this incident had nothing to do with money- it has to do with pure stupidity. Powderpuff has been going on for 26 years, and nothing has ever happened like this. Northbrook has always been an affluent area, and the people haven't changed. Something went wrong in the raising of the 3 girls who brainstormed ways to torment the juniors. As for the rest of the crew, they were sheep. "They did not sit there and go, Mommy and Daddy have a lawyer so I'll get away with this." Instead, they too were pressured to do what was depicted as "bad ass" by a few of the popular girls. If these girls didn't have any money, it probably still would have happened. In high school its all about what a few people say- what would have happened to them if they didn't go along with it??? Its so easy to tell them to not participate, but until you have 40 people hunting you down you might not know how it feels.

Finally, I don't agree with this being on national news. I think its a horrible thing and I think the girls shouldn't graduate and should get arrested....but I honestly think it was blown out of proportion b/c the Iraq war is done, Lacy's body has been found and we're out of exciting news.

Last edited by AXJules; 11-06-2004 at 01:23 AM.
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  #69  
Old 05-08-2003, 02:08 PM
xo_kathy xo_kathy is offline
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AXJules - Thanks for the info.

However, I don't care how many ways you slice it (and by you I don't mean AXJules, I mean in general), there is no excuse for this kind of behavior at all. End of story.

And I think it should be on the National News - in hopes of preventing anything like this from happening anywhere else. Our society needs to realize that you cannot treat other people like garbage under the guise of "Hey, it's not like we killed someone!". Obviously these kids' parents aren't teaching them that, so maybe the news will.
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  #70  
Old 05-08-2003, 02:21 PM
FuzzieAlum FuzzieAlum is offline
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Quote:
not even the "hey, wouldn't it be cool if we made the fish line up and spray them with water, throw flour on them, put shaving cream all over them and stick jello in their pants then take them through the carwash in the back of a truck to rise off"? No sort of initiation?? That's kind of sad... your school must have really sucked. It's traditions like that that bring classes which wouldn't ordinarly be close together...
Nope, none of that.

As for the rest of us who weren't hazed in high school, we must just be imagining that our high school experience didn't suck. I'm so glad you've removed my illusions. All this time I thought high school was fun and my classmates had spirit, but now I see that I was wrong.
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  #71  
Old 05-08-2003, 02:29 PM
Peaches-n-Cream Peaches-n-Cream is offline
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This whole thing leaves me confused. I can't imagine coming up with the idea to throw "human liquids" on someone. The whole situation seems really vicious and cruel and sociopathic.

I have more to write, but I need to gather my thoughts. This story just has me feeling ill.
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  #72  
Old 05-08-2003, 02:30 PM
Megerts Megerts is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by adduncan
I do remember the Queens of Armed Robbery. Very spooky.

While I think you're right the media is going to play up the sins and crimes of wealthy people for ratings, just as you said, I don't think that's the entire issue.

I think part of it is the kids are spoiled. Not just in this particular part of the country (my SIL lives in Winnetka, so I know some of the area), but any well-to-do neighborhood where kids get whatever they want for the asking and don't have to learn basic values: whether it's the value of a dollar or the value of a life, or the value that actions have consequences. The parents aren't involved, they can financially afford not to be. Then they get all shocked that their darling angel butter-wouldn't-melt-in-their-little-mouths kids are getting hauled off to jail.

Before anyone PMs or replies to this with "Hey, you're wrong because *I* sure don't act like that!".......I know it's not true of *everyone*. But it a number of circumstances you see these common threads-the Houston case reminded me of it.

Back to coffee........
Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

I have to disagree with you whole heartedly! I knew these girls... If their parents gave them all they wanted they wouldn't have to rob a store to get drug money. Hell, one of the girls lived in a ghetto apartment. Her mom had to work and extra job just to keep her on the dance team. I honestly don't think money has anything to do with their actions.... People from unwealthy neighborhoods commit crimes like this all the time! When you turn on the news when isn't there a story about a robbery? Are you telling me that these people are all from Kingwood, River Oaks, and West U?? I don't think so!

As for parents being involved, puhlease! That's not what it was like at Kingwood high school at all. I can't tell you how many parents went to EVERY SINGLE game or performance their children had. There were even many that went to all the practices.

I can't help but think that you make these statemens without any knowledge as to what goes on in the lives of high schoolers no matter their economic situation... because I can tell you that high schoolers in farmersville, Illinois don't behave any better that the wealthiest of Texas (or any other place for that matter)...You just never hear about "farmersville"....
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  #73  
Old 05-08-2003, 02:32 PM
Megerts Megerts is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
Nope, none of that.

As for the rest of us who weren't hazed in high school, we must just be imagining that our high school experience didn't suck. I'm so glad you've removed my illusions. All this time I thought high school was fun and my classmates had spirit, but now I see that I was wrong.
I was just wondering the size of all of your schools?? Did you belong to any organizations?? And there is NO need for an attitude (eye rolling!)...
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  #74  
Old 05-08-2003, 02:40 PM
Peaches-n-Cream Peaches-n-Cream is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Megerts
I was just wondering the size of all of your schools?? Did you belong to any organizations?? And there is NO need for an attitude (eye rolling!)...
I'll answer. I'll try not to roll my eyes.

I went to a small private school with fewer than 400 students from K to 12th grade. Thirty were in my graduating class. I was on the basketball and softball teams and debate, yearbook, newspaper, student council, and a few more. A small private school is very different from a large public school. We were very close as a student body.
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  #75  
Old 05-08-2003, 02:44 PM
Megerts Megerts is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoxieGrrl
This morning, two of the junior girls were on The Early Show with their lawyer. Matt Lauer asked them, "Did you ever think to tell them to stop?" The girls said no because they were too afraid.

Ok, this makes no sense to me. If someone was punching me in the face, I would be screaming bloody murder for them to stop! Peer pressure to be a part of the cool crowd would not override physical pain. Especially in this situation where it looked like a free for all.

Has it not been established that if you allow yourself to be hazed, you are just as guilty as the hazers? (That wasn't meant to be rhetorical; I seriously don't know)
If i'm not mistaken, i swear that one clip of a tape showed girls yelling for them to stop. I remember one girl crying and saying "please stop" then being smacked in the face and kicked...


Maybe i made that up??

As for the not getting up and walking away... your on the ground covered in paint, human waste is being dumped on you, baskets are being thrown on you, and there's a girl pulling your hair and kicking you in the side... don't tell me that you aren't afraid of what they'll do if you got up and tried to walk away... even if you wanted to what if you were too hurt (girl with a broken ankle) ??? just trying to see if from the perspective....
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