"Evening things out" question

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by CarolinaDG
I don't know that AZD's necessarily bad at expanding on larger campusses. I mean, they've been at OSU for a long time, for example. And I think that we've been over and over on GC the point that different GLO's are better for different sized universities depending on a number of different variables. As far as putting a cap on extension, well, size isn't everything. Strength of the GLO is just as important. We pass threads around asking how big everyone is, knowing that this isn't all that matters. It's the same problem that we have on campusses, too. "Well, ABC here is the biggest so they MUST be the best because if XYZ were the best than EVERYONE would want to join it." Then girls get into ABC and find out that the sisterhood isn't as strong, or they are having problems with girls not wanting to participate in anything, etc... Anyway, I think that's my soapbox speech for the day.

This quote is from the thread called "Expansion... Evening things out" on the Greek life board. That thread, plus looking at the sororities on campus for one of my friends who's about to make her final college decision and start thinking about rush, got me thinking.

I was just wondering about something that isn't a problem on my campus. I know on some campus nationally large, powerful GLOs are on campus, as well as smaller GLOs. On my campus, all of the groups would be considered pretty nationally strong (or at least southernly strong), I think. So I have two questions for you that have both nationally big/strong and nationally small/"weak" groups on campus:

1. Do the social reputations of the larger group pair up with their "stronger" national status? Do nationally smaller groups suffer from a "weaker" social reputation?

2. When you went through rush was the national strength a big consideration for you? I know that you have to choose where you truly fit, but the national connections and after-graduation sisterhood possibilites can be a valid consideration, too.

[kddani]

This is a very interesting question. Something I never really thought about.
My answer to (1)- YES, for the most part. There's probably one that's stronger than their national rep, and one that's not quite up to their national rep. But as for the rest, it's pretty dead on.

(2) I didn't have a clue about national rep going into it. Probably b/c no one else in my family had been greek and also b/c i'm from the North in a fairly un-greek area.

[trisigmaAtl]

I come from a school with one well WELL known Glo and two other not so prominant GLO's (my chapter included).

I don't think it matters socially who will hang out with whom. Our school is too small for that. however, the well known chapter's national expects them to represent thier strong reputation, so they are more focused on winning awards and having thier members participate in at least two other campus activities. (not all their focused on, just more than the other chapters). This makes them appear more omnipresent, even though they are not that much larger than the other chapters.

As for recruitment, i think it does matter to some girls. Alumni ties and national rep have some great benefits and that is what some girls really want out of their greek exprerience. They also don't have to "sell" their chapter as much because they have a name that precedes them. I even had a girl in my rho chi group say: "well if you're going to be in a sorority at least be in one somebody's heard of". However, alot of times it can still just come down to how well you mesh (my less nationally known (but no less strong!!!) chapter almost always makes quota). A good national rep certainly can't hurt, except for when a girl gets so caught up in a name that she joins a chapter that she doesn't clique with and that does happen from time to time. All in all, it is a factor, but it is dependent on the Rushee how influential it is. It is by no means an insurmountable obstacle to other chapters.

[shadokat]

D Phi E has a LARGE chapter at University of Florida that has been doing well for years, and it respected, from what I know. Other UFers, feel free to tell me if I'm wrong. There is no stigma on them because they're members of a smaller NPC sorority. The reason why? Because they kick ass...enough said!

[sugar and spice]

(1) We have mostly large NPC groups, but we do have a couple of the smaller ones. The smaller ones are not as popular as most of the larger ones, but I'm not sure if that's necessarily due to their smaller NPC status . . . they both target a different niche (the East Coast girls) than the bigger sororities, and there might not be enough East Coast girls to go around.

Regardless of what the reason is, though, they are smaller.

(2) National strength was a consideration, but certainly not a big one. I was a lot more concerned as to whether or not I was going to mesh with the girls.

[breathesgelatin]

I wasn't trying to imply in my post that there aren't chapters of smaller sororities that aren't totally and completely awesome and that rock your socks off til you can't go anymore. I know there are chapters like that out there!! That rules! I was just curious to see if there were any trends on campuses that have both big and small groups, or if PNMs didn't want certain groups because they were smaller nationally.

For example--we currently have 5 sororities on campus (Pi Phi, KKG, KD, KAT, and XO) and there is potential for a 6th maybe sometime in the next 10 years, if everyone gets at total. When people discuss groups they'd want, pretty much the only names that come up are Tri Delt and Phi Mu, maybe ADPi. Just because of our base of students, those are the ones people tend to know for whatever reasons. If another group comes on campus, my impression is that we can probably pretty much have our pick to a large extent because of the school's academic reputation and strong Greek system. So this problem would probably never occur. However, I have a friend that's probably going to a small college nearby next year. On that campus are several very strong southern sororities founded in the 50s, and a nationally smaller group that was founded a little over a year ago. I have no idea of the reputations or anything on this campus, but I thought it was unusual (but cool!) that they chose a group that is not traditionally found in the south to expand last year. Personally, I know that if smaller group ever came on my campus, it wouldn't last long. I think that is tragic, but I know this. People (not in my chapter, thank god!) have made nasty comments to me about smaller, non-southern NPC groups. So I was just curious, in line with helping smaller groups expand and not losing any of our NPC groups, which are all awesome w/ rich traditions and strong chapters, if this was a problem elsewhere. I wasn't trying to say that smaller NPCs can't have awesomely strong chapters.

Just a clarification. Sorry it took so long

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I didn't know anything about national reputation or number of chapters when I rushed. I had the opportunity to be a founding sister of a colony of a larger and older international sorority, but I chose D Phi E because I liked the sisters and fit in the best.

You also have to realize that as a New Yorker it doesn't matter to me personally that we have only a handful of chapters in the South or Midwest. When I was in college, we had almost twenty chapters in New York State many within a two hour drive of my campus. Not too many other sororities can make the same claim.

My campus had 7 sororities including 6 NPCs, 4 of which would be considered smaller. We didn't have any of the 5 that breathesgelatin's campus has or might have in the future. Ironically, two of the largest three sororities on campus were smallest in terms of number of chapters inter/nationally. I guess things are different in the North and New York.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by Cream
You also have to realize that as a New Yorker it doesn't matter to me personally that we have only a handful of chapters in the South or Midwest. When I was in college, we had almost twenty chapters in New York State many within a two hour drive of my campus. Not too many other sororities can make the same claim.

My campus had 7 sororities including 6 NPCs, 4 of which would be considered smaller. We didn't have any of the 5 that breathesgelatin's campus has or might have in the future. Ironically, two of the largest three sororities on campus were smallest in terms of number of chapters inter/nationally. I guess things are different in the North and New York.

I'm first generation Greek, too. I wouldn't have known the difference, either, honestly, except for the fact that I was thrown into the mix of people's whose mammas and mammas mammas and mammas mammas mammas had been KKGs, and they knew they were going to be, too! LOL

It really is amazing how different things are in the North! These problems just may not occur there as much... It's like a different world.. I think it's great that smaller groups can succeed there, and I wish it was the same for the south (not that there aren't great chapters of smaller groups in the south--there just aren't as many chapters). I think what we're all asking is--how can we get there?

[trumana]

Hey there Cream
I agree with you 100%. The "popular" sororities up North are sometimes unknown(for the most part) down South IMO

[FuzzieAlum]

I think geography plays a role. AXD had about 14 chapters in Ohio when I rushed - sort of like DPhiE in New York. So locally everyone had heard of it more than they maybe did some other sororities that were a little bigger on a national level.

On my campus, though, the local would get dropped sometimes because girls wanted a national organization, but otherwise, I have to say the other orgs we had were probably fairly equally regarded on a national level, and each one has risen and fallen on my campus in its day. My chapter is gone, but the other three nationals have each had their moment as "the top house" in the nearly nine years since I first came to campus.

[trisigmaAtl]

I don't think anybody was thinking that you were putting down smaller national groups, I just think that those of us who are from those groups don't want to talk about "strong reps" without putting in some props for our own group. I understand your question and think about it every year when rush rolls around.

[XOMichelle]

At my campus we only have big national sororities, and I don't think the girls care at all about national reputation when they rush. It's too bad!
-M

[stargirl725]

1. Do the social reputations of the larger group pair up with their "stronger" national status? Do nationally smaller groups suffer from a "weaker" social reputation?

Definitely not. It's a little hard for me to gauge "national strength" at my school because we have some chapters that are HUGE in the south but not well known in other parts of the country. That being said, the one group that I could definitely pinpoint as having a less strong national status (I hesitate to say weak because all of our sororities are pretty solid nationally) does just fine. On the other side of a coin, we lost a chapter to low numbers (and yes, it did have a weak social reputation) that had a REALLY strong national status.

2. When you went through rush was the national strength a big consideration for you? I know that you have to choose where you truly fit, but the national connections and after-graduation sisterhood possibilites can be a valid consideration, too.

It wasn't a consideration, but it was a fringe benefit. Because my org is so strong nationally, I got to know a lot of alums before I came to college and that made me focus a little more on the chapter. But if I had encountered the same girls but a different set of letters, I still would have joined.

[honeychile]

1. Do the social reputations of the larger group pair up with their "stronger" national status? Do nationally smaller groups suffer from a "weaker" social reputation?

Sometimes. I would think it varies from campus to campus, and from year to year.

2. When you went through rush was the national strength a big consideration for you? I know that you have to choose where you truly fit, but the national connections and after-graduation sisterhood possibilites can be a valid consideration, too.

In my case, this meant more to my parents than to me. They knew that joining a sorority was a lifelong commitment, and they wanted a sorority that would be strong in the long haul. One of the sororities that I had chosen for the round prior to pref didn't enjoy a strong, national reputation, and I was discouraged from it. Okay, I'll be honest - my parents were horrified!

Luckily for me, the sorority I chose and love has a good, strong national reputation!

honeychile

[shadokat]

I know when I went through rush (and YES, it was rush then ), I didn't know D Phi E from ASA from Tri Sigma. And as for "national reputations", didn't know, wasn't thinking about it. When I went to pref, I went to D Phi E, Tri Sigma and a local, and I couldn't have cared less about national or local. I cared about the women I met and how I gelled with the group.

As trisigmaATL said, nobody was putting down the big guns. We smaller national/international sororities just want our props too