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  #61  
Old 04-04-2023, 05:26 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
My closest transgender friend, Laura, does in fact have a vagina, and no penis. It may have been a surgical intervention, but in fact is so. She should not have to show it to prove her status.
Betting nobody wants to look at it either.
  #62  
Old 04-04-2023, 05:53 PM
thetalady thetalady is offline
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I can't claim to be a legit black woman any more than a man can claim to be a real woman... and THAT is a much smaller leap. Has the world lost its ever loving mind??

All Caitlin Jenner's Fault
  #63  
Old 04-04-2023, 06:52 PM
joliebelle joliebelle is offline
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+1 to everything Clemsongirl said.
The transphobia in this thread is horrifying and it seems like discussion of this lawsuit was just an excuse for people to be hateful.
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  #64  
Old 04-04-2023, 06:59 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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No one here is afraid of transsexuals. What we are nauseated about here is them forcing their way into supposedly secure women's societies. I bet if the women in the KKG chapter here were allowed to revote secretly with a neutral vote counter--as they are supposed to--Boner would be an ex-Kappa.

You should see all the stuff that people at Wyoming are writing about what they've seen him do and heard him say. This business started even before he pledged.
  #65  
Old 04-04-2023, 08:21 PM
*winter* *winter* is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
No one here is afraid of transsexuals. What we are nauseated about here is them forcing their way into supposedly secure women's societies. I bet if the women in the KKG chapter here were allowed to revote secretly with a neutral vote counter--as they are supposed to--Boner would be an ex-Kappa.

You should see all the stuff that people at Wyoming are writing about what they've seen him do and heard him say. This business started even before he pledged.
It seems as if women wanting to feel safe does not matter in the least. The needs of one have transcended the needs of the majority in this situation and itís sad to see.

Said person also has/had a legislative internship. With a 1.9 GPA. HowÖinteresting.
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  #66  
Old 04-05-2023, 01:01 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
No one here is afraid of transsexuals. What we are nauseated about here is them forcing their way into supposedly secure women's societies.
How did this person force their way in? Did they threaten the membership? Bribe them? Rig and manipulate the recruitment system to work in their favor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *winter* View Post
It seems as if women wanting to feel safe does not matter in the least. The needs of one have transcended the needs of the majority in this situation and it’s sad to see.
Who prioritized the "needs" of this member?

Again, assuming all the allegations are true, where is the outrage at KKG for forcing the chapter to accept this unqualified, unacceptable, and creepy new member?
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  #67  
Old 04-05-2023, 02:32 AM
*winter* *winter* is offline
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I personally am not going to rage against KKG membership selection. That wouldn’t be my place as I have zero familiarity with it, coming from a non NPC sorority.

I can also understand that people and organizations nowadays are afraid of lawsuits. That’s why I mentioned the internship. It’s not unheard of for people to get denied things for perfectly valid reasons and then turn around and sue for discrimination.

Every post I’ve read on other sites is attacking the women who have come forward and automatically assuming it could not be true and any and all allegations are based in transphobia. That’s making transphobia the important issue here and not the validity of the women’s feelings or experiences. It’s okay for them to feel unsafe but not to point out that the transgender member might have done things to cause them to feel that way?
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Last edited by *winter*; 04-05-2023 at 02:58 AM.
  #68  
Old 04-05-2023, 11:58 AM
thetalady thetalady is offline
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 View Post
How did this person force their way in? Did they threaten the membership? Bribe them? Rig and manipulate the recruitment system to work in their favor?

Who prioritized the "needs" of this member?

Again, assuming all the allegations are true, where is the outrage at KKG for forcing the chapter to accept this unqualified, unacceptable, and creepy new member?
Clearly you did not bother to read the article posted, which answered each of your questions. "TLDR" doesn't cut it. The "outrage at Kappa" is the LAWSUIT, for God's sake.
  #69  
Old 04-06-2023, 10:58 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by *winter* View Post
Every post Iíve read on other sites is attacking the women who have come forward and automatically assuming it could not be true and any and all allegations are based in transphobia. Thatís making transphobia the important issue here and not the validity of the womenís feelings or experiences. Itís okay for them to feel unsafe but not to point out that the transgender member might have done things to cause them to feel that way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetalady View Post
Clearly you did not bother to read the article posted, which answered each of your questions. "TLDR" doesn't cut it. The "outrage at Kappa" is the LAWSUIT, for God's sake.
I'm addressing what people here are saying.
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  #70  
Old 05-02-2023, 05:25 AM
jbakajp jbakajp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 View Post
I know there are many chapters out there that have been very welcoming of transgender/non-binary members...There are already thousands of these members within our ranks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
...I'm convinced the numbers of trans women in the 18-22 age group attending college and seeking sorority membership are minuscule.
If we already have "thousands" of transgendered/non-binary members, it is reasonable to think that there is only a "minuscule" possibility that more will want to join our groups in the near future?

Here's a New York Times article from 6/10/2022 about a study by the Williams Institute, a research center at UCLA's School of Law that may shed a bit of light on what our informal, collective pool of PNMs looks like:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/10/s...al-survey.html

The Williams Institute is reportedly very experienced in studying LGBTQ demographics, behaviors and policy concerns. Its analysis of two CDC health surveys, the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System and the Youth Risk Behavior Survey, is the basis of the NYT article:

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...united-states/

In a nutshell, per the NYT, the institute found that, "[t]he number of young people who identify as transgender has nearly doubled in recent years...."

Quoting the NYT article, the institute found that “[t]eenagers and adults under 25 make up an estimated 43 percent of the transgender population.” Broken down further, “[w]hile younger teenagers [a]re just 7.6 percent of the total U.S. population, they ma[k]e up roughly 18 percent of transgender people. Likewise, 18- to 24-year-olds ma[k]e up 11 percent of the total population but 24 percent of the transgender population.”

Per the webpage for the Williams Institute study, "[n]early one in five people who identify as transgender are ages 13-17."

Other articles I have read all seem to say the same thing - there is a rapid increase in the number of young people that are identifying as transgender. If this is true, then simple logic would indicate that the number of transgendered people wanting to join single-sex fraternities and sororities will also increase.

Last edited by jbakajp; 05-02-2023 at 05:26 AM. Reason: grammer
  #71  
Old 05-02-2023, 05:44 AM
jbakajp jbakajp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbakajp View Post
Some members of the KKG chapter at University of Wyoming are suing their national president and organization for "betray[ing] the central purpose and mission of Kappa Kappa Gamma by conflating the experience of being a woman with the experience of men engaging in behavior generally associated with women."
Sorry to be quoting myself, but I wanted to post an update to lawsuit status:

https://www.thecollegefix.com/sorori...e-male-member/

The article has a link to the actual, amended filing with the U.S. District Court, District of Wyoming.

While the filing is in the public domain, one thing that I would respectfully request is for the GreekChat community to refrain from using the names of the people involved on both sides of the lawsuit. We all have usernames that protect our anonymity, so it would be fair and in the Panhellenic spirit to share that grace with the members of KKG as best we can. Thank you.
  #72  
Old 05-02-2023, 06:28 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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I have taught students who identified as transgender for many, many years. And at least 90% of them have gone back to their birth gender...all I can figure out is that the grass wasn't greener on the other side or the whole thing was for attention (now people will notice me, how can I piss off my parents, etc.) This is why I don't put much stock in statistics about increasing numbers.
  #73  
Old 05-02-2023, 11:51 AM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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I have several transgender friends; I have a family member who is transgender; I have taught transgender students. Not a one of them was doing it for attention, and in fact, they would have loved to NOt have attention given to them for being transgender. That, of course is anecdotal and not something to base a general statement on, but luckily, resources exist which are more far-reaching: https://apnews.com/article/transgend...c77b5371c6ba2b

Some people's fascination with others genitals is worrisome. You start getting into chromosomes and hormones, and open up a whole can of worms that can easily be avoided by simply allowing people to be themselves.

The issue should be the pressure put to bear on KKG members to pledge someone they didn't wish to pledge, and who apparently did not meet the minimum qualifications.

As to creepy, criminal, or bothersome behavior - it should be addressed with the individual via the proper channels, be they the law, administration, or those in charge.
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  #74  
Old 05-02-2023, 12:02 PM
jbakajp jbakajp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
I have taught students who identified as transgender for many, many years. And at least 90% of them have gone back to their birth gender...all I can figure out is that the grass wasn't greener on the other side or the whole thing was for attention (now people will notice me, how can I piss off my parents, etc.) This is why I don't put much stock in statistics about increasing numbers.
While I agree that many will likely revert to their birth gender, there are numerous scenarios that will need to be addressed. After all, the person no longer satisfies the initial membership requirement of being or identifying as the correct sex for that organization, but the person was promised lifetime membership.

What happens to the membership of the now previous transgendered person if the reversion occurs after initiation into the now opposite gendered sorority or fraternity? If the person remains a member, how does that affect the sister- or brotherhood dynamic, living arrangements, etc? If the reversion occurs after becoming a new member (pledge), but before becoming an initiated member, then how should the chapters and national organizations handle? Can a bid be revoked in this scenario? Or, if the reversion happens after graduation, should the national organization turn a blind eye? For this last question, I suspect that the willful blind eye is the current answer, but someone please speak up if you know differently. Also, I think it is safe to say that a blind eye does not work in the collegiate space.
  #75  
Old 05-02-2023, 12:33 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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I'm betting that the huge majority of transgenders wouldn't pledge, except for the people who want to make a big and public splash. Remember the guy at Bama?
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