"Dropping" your girlfriend (with a twist)

AlphaFrog · #1 01-04-2008, 07:52 AM

Ok, so I feel like Dionysus asking this, but here we go anyway....

We are now very much a more progressive society than when lavaliering traditions started. So, I'm looking for thoughts on this: Many fraternities have an unwritten rule, that when a girlfriend is dropped/lavaliered she is then allowed to wear his letters (mostly justified by the fact that most people would know that a girl wearing a TKE shirt was not a member). Also, I remember seeing shirts around my campus that had Pike letters with DZ superimposed over them, and boyfriends wearing sorority letters. So, what about girls with girlfriends and boys with boyfriends?? It probably wouldn't happen much, except on very liberal campuses...but what happens if you're XYZ sorority and you "drop" your girfriend who's in ABC sorority??

Thoughts, anyone? Oh, and I'll go ahead and give the "Fratty" answer, so they don't have to bother, "If I saw some fairie wearing my letters, I'd rip them off of him."

catiebug · #2 01-04-2008, 08:07 AM

PGITY???

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Thoughts, anyone? Oh, and I'll go ahead and give the "Fratty" answer, so they don't have to bother, "If I saw some fairie wearing my letters, I'd rip them off of him."

knight_shadow · #3 01-04-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catiebug

PGITY???

LOL

Senusret I · #4 01-04-2008, 08:53 AM

This isn't directly related because in most NPHC orgs (if not all), non-initiates can't wear the letters.

But I have already put my best friends on notice that we WILL sing the sweetheart song to my husband at our reception. I also told them they more than likely have a few years to get used to the idea, but to get ready now.

starang21 · #5 01-04-2008, 08:55 AM

hell no.

oh wait. i thought this was about my chick wearing my letters.....

:doh:

fantASTic · #6 01-04-2008, 09:40 AM

I don't see the problem...though the only Greek lesbian couple I know is in the same sorority, so it's really not an issue there.

SuperblySigma · #7 01-04-2008, 09:50 AM

I'm with fantASTic--I've only known one Greek lesbian couple, and they are initiates of the same sorority.

33girl · #8 01-04-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Many fraternities have an unwritten rule, that when a girlfriend is dropped/lavaliered she is then allowed to wear his letters (mostly justified by the fact that most people would know that a girl wearing a TKE shirt was not a member).

People would not KNOW a girlfriend of an ASA was not an ASA...therefore, she shouldn't be allowed to wear highly visible letters. I do believe one of the girls in our chapter lavaliered her girlfriend, but she didn't wear letter sweatshirts or her ASA jacket. And I don't even know if the lavalier was actual letters or one of our symbols.

I don't know if any co-ed groups lavalier their significant others, but if they do they would have this same problem.

Ilaria Ame · #9 01-04-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperblySigma

I'm with fantASTic--I've only known one Greek lesbian couple, and they are initiates of the same sorority.

oohhhh, i didn't think that was allowed! i know in LPsiD, we are open to all women, but we specify that a relationship with another sister is grounds for forced deactivation (of both members). it's just too messy.

Senusret I · #10 01-04-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilaria Ame

oohhhh, i didn't think that was allowed! i know in LPsiD, we are open to all women, but we specify that a relationship with another sister is grounds for forced deactivation (of both members). it's just too messy.

I know you didn't make the rule, so I am not asking you to defend it....

I think it is wise to specify the relationships between initiates and prospective members because of the inescapable imbalance of power between Greek and Pledge.

But I don't agree with forbidding two people with an equal power balance from dating. Some things shouldn't be legislated.

I look at APO as an example -- straight people in APO can (and do) date, get married, breed, etc. I don't see why a same-gender couple couldn't also successfully be in a relationship.

Yes, it can get messy if the other members of the organization get involved -- that happens in APO, too.

33girl · #11 01-04-2008, 11:11 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if some chapters of APO DO have a no-dating rule. I know my sorority had a "no dating the sweetheart" rule but let's just say it had varying degrees of compliance, and no one would have ever been terminated over it.

AlphaFrog · #12 01-04-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilaria Ame

oohhhh, i didn't think that was allowed! i know in LPsiD, we are open to all women, but we specify that a relationship with another sister is grounds for forced deactivation (of both members). it's just too messy.

I don't think most NPC orgs have had that issue come up enough to mandate anything to do with it, especially termination. There might be some individual chapters that have made bylaws against it, but I don't think they could turn termination papers in to HQ with the reason being that they dated another sister.

SydneyK · #13 01-04-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

...but what happens if you're XYZ sorority and you "drop" your girfriend who's in ABC sorority??

Good question, AF.

There was a lesbian couple on my campus, and each woman was in a different sorority. I don't recall either one of them wearing the other's letters as a lavaliere, but each had a shirt with the other's letters with "Sweetheart" written in script below the letters. It looked just like the fraternity's Sweetheart's shirts... I guess that's where they got the idea.

Leslie Anne · #14 01-04-2008, 12:12 PM

Interesting question. This is a situation where my heart and my head tell me two different things. I've seen plenty of girls wearing their boyfriend's lettered shirts/sweatshirts and thought nothing of it.

Since I don't have any problem with gays or lesbians, logically I shouldn't have a problem with a girl wearing her girlfriend's letters or a guy wearing his boyfriend's letters...but I do. I think the only reason is because it could be interpreted as that person being a member.

Except when you put a co-ed organization into it, I flip-flop on the issue and think it's okay for a non-member to wear their SO's letters. Or do I? Hmm, maybe not.

I think maybe I'm just a stickler for the importance of wearing letters since I don't even think New Members should wear them until their initiated. (Although my sorority's policy contradicts that.) If I saw a girl/woman wearing a shirt with big Kappa Delta letters on it I'd excitedly say, "Oh my gosh! You're a KD?!" If she replied with, "No, my girlfriend is." I wouldn't say anything about it, but it would bother me. Same situation but with a lavalier...I'd think "Aww, how sweet!"

Okay, so someone help me out here. Given my feelings about letters, why do I think it's okay for a girl to wear her boyfriend's letters? I hate it when I realize I have double standards.

Ilaria Ame · #15 01-04-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I know you didn't make the rule, so I am not asking you to defend it....

I think it is wise to specify the relationships between initiates and prospective members because of the inescapable imbalance of power between Greek and Pledge.

But I don't agree with forbidding two people with an equal power balance from dating. Some things shouldn't be legislated.

I look at APO as an example -- straight people in APO can (and do) date, get married, breed, etc. I don't see why a same-gender couple couldn't also successfully be in a relationship.

Yes, it can get messy if the other members of the organization get involved -- that happens in APO, too.

i think that the rule was made because the founders didn't want to see a split within chapters if a relationship was formed and then broken up. i wouldn't pretend to know for sure though. it makes sense to me but then again, i'm straight, so it really doesn't affect me anyway