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  #31  
Old 10-21-2002, 11:23 PM
Optimist Prime Optimist Prime is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by starang21


here's an effective way...

plege the shit out of her enough to get her to drop. probably wouldn't work, huh?
Save the trouble and don't give her a bid to begin with. NOt everyone can be what they want.
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  #32  
Old 10-22-2002, 09:51 AM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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I don't know about any of you all, but when we vote on PNMs, and someone has something not so nice to say about a PNM, you are supposed to trust your sisters that they are helping make the right decisions. If you have a strenuous objection to someone, you need to make your voice heard, and make sure you have credibility among your chapter members.

Quote:
Originally posted by honeychile


I agree - with the caveat that, if you know something truly sinister about the pnm, you have an obligation to speak up.
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2002, 10:32 AM
dzrose93 dzrose93 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by starang21
but if you don't accept her, why would she say anything good about it anyway? i'm pretty sure she'll resent you if you've already rejected her. you're already going to burn a bridge, might as well be truthful to yourself as well as to her. if you don't like her, don't prance around like you'll be her friend after you reject her. that's bogus. why would she tell her friends to join if you didnt' even accept her? and you didn't tell her what you didn't like about her, then why would she change for better? she doesn't know her faults. its pointless to roll your eyes and just pretend there isn't a problem, that doesn't solve anything, and it's 2 faced for that matter.
It's common knowledge that if someone has a bad experience somewhere, that they will usually mention that experience to an average of 6 people. Knowing that, I would MUCH rather let a girl down easy by being polite and showing some couth than to look her dead in the eye and say, "Your reputation as a slut precedes you, and we don't want that in our organization." Saying that not only embarrasses her, but it also would make you look like a cold-hearted b*tch. At least by being polite, you don't provide the rushee with any nasty stories to spread around about how rude and snobby XYZ sorority members are -- and you don't make the girl herself feel like a second-class citizen whenever she runs into one of your sisters on campus.

Being polite does not equate to being "two-faced." I don't know how your organization works, but in mine there is silent voting -- which means that if a girl isn't extended a bid, then it's a strong possibility that many of the chapter members won't know why. Only the nominating committee really knows for sure, and they are not allowed to talk about any negative votes. So, it would not be two-faced for a sister to say that she doesn't know the reason for a rushee not getting a bid, and it would not be "bogus" for her to continue being polite to that rushee in the future. Not all rushees have the qualities that a sorority is looking for in a new member, but that doesn't mean that the girls can't be friendly to each other outside the chapter.
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2002, 11:23 AM
doubleblue&gold doubleblue&gold is offline
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In COB, it helps to have different types of events. There may be activities that you may invite a large group of women to, after posting notices around campus. It helps draw PNM and increases the numbers that you can consider. Then, there are invitation only parties. You should always tell the women that as the process continues that invitation only events occur.

If you make it clear to the PNM that COB is still a selection process and the chapter may not extend bids to everyone, it makes it much easier. I think it's appropriate to tell them the chapter makes the final decision, not you. Then you can still remain cordial with her if she doesn't receive a bid.
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  #35  
Old 10-22-2002, 12:58 PM
starang21 starang21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dzrose93


It's common knowledge that if someone has a bad experience somewhere, that they will usually mention that experience to an average of 6 people. Knowing that, I would MUCH rather let a girl down easy by being polite and showing some couth than to look her dead in the eye and say, "Your reputation as a slut precedes you, and we don't want that in our organization." Saying that not only embarrasses her, but it also would make you look like a cold-hearted b*tch. At least by being polite, you don't provide the rushee with any nasty stories to spread around about how rude and snobby XYZ sorority members are -- and you don't make the girl herself feel like a second-class citizen whenever she runs into one of your sisters on campus.

Being polite does not equate to being "two-faced." I don't know how your organization works, but in mine there is silent voting -- which means that if a girl isn't extended a bid, then it's a strong possibility that many of the chapter members won't know why. Only the nominating committee really knows for sure, and they are not allowed to talk about any negative votes. So, it would not be two-faced for a sister to say that she doesn't know the reason for a rushee not getting a bid, and it would not be "bogus" for her to continue being polite to that rushee in the future. Not all rushees have the qualities that a sorority is looking for in a new member, but that doesn't mean that the girls can't be friendly to each other outside the chapter.
being polite is all fine and dandy, but if you don't tell her what's wrong with her, how is she going to fix it? are you just going to let her continue to be at fault? if i don't like someone, i'll be cordial, but i'm not going to pretend like i like them. who care's if someone see's you as a cold hearted b*tch? if that's what they think fine, it's whatever. people's opinion of me matters really doesn't matter. if they're really going to base their opinion of me on what i said to someone i don't like, cool. if she's going to harp about being rejected and not put it past her, then she really is a weak willed person. but then again, NPHC groups really don't have to worry about things you guys do.
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Last edited by starang21; 10-22-2002 at 01:03 PM.
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  #36  
Old 10-22-2002, 01:43 PM
FuzzieAlum FuzzieAlum is offline
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If I know a girl who has a hard-core drug problem, do you really think that just because I tell her that's why she didn't get a bid, she's going to wake up and say, "Oh, I do? I guess I never noticed. Well, bye, I'm off to go check myself into rehab!"

Or even if I say, "Well, we just found you loud and obnoxious," is she going to say, "Guess I better pipe down!"? No, she's going to say, "I am who I am, and screw them if they don't want me." And I can't say I blame her!

Quite frankly, it's not my job to reform all the women on campus with serious issues. Even if I decided I wanted to I couldn't. That's the job of a counselor or a psychiatrist, not a sorority.
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  #37  
Old 10-22-2002, 01:57 PM
XOMichelle XOMichelle is offline
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arrowgirl-
Yeah the thread is crappy, but I want you to know that I (and my chapter) *always* error on the side of giving someone a chance. However, we've had lots of problems with it! We have a hard time with attendance since we extend bids to girls who aren't gung-ho about a sorority (we think we can change their minds, but they go back to boyfriends and studying anyway). We've had bad publicity from the behavior of other pledges, and have had internal arguements and problems due to the rude behavior of another.

I am saying, because of these bad events, I advocate selection! Every GLO is based on selection, and I think it has a good purpose. Selection is not just picking out the good, but trying to identify people who would not be good memebrs of an org. Identifying people who would not be good fits is much harder than identifying people you think would really add soemthing to your group. Obviously you don't know people from a 30 min conversation, but I think it is a good idea to try and use sisters' knowledge of PNM's behavior outside the rush room as part of the process. That's what recs are about! And if you know someone is unstable, or a liar or habitually behaves in an inappropriate fashion, chances are they'll do that in your org too. Anway, you can say I'm a bitch for it, but if your in an org, you do it too.
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  #38  
Old 10-22-2002, 02:03 PM
starang21 starang21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
If I know a girl who has a hard-core drug problem, do you really think that just because I tell her that's why she didn't get a bid, she's going to wake up and say, "Oh, I do? I guess I never noticed. Well, bye, I'm off to go check myself into rehab!"

Or even if I say, "Well, we just found you loud and obnoxious," is she going to say, "Guess I better pipe down!"? No, she's going to say, "I am who I am, and screw them if they don't want me." And I can't say I blame her!

Quite frankly, it's not my job to reform all the women on campus with serious issues. Even if I decided I wanted to I couldn't. That's the job of a counselor or a psychiatrist, not a sorority.
so being in a sorority means that you smile in someone's face you really don't like? then i guess all of those stereotypes of women in sororities are true? ok, cool with me. might as well be truthful with them instead, or just not tell them period.
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  #39  
Old 10-22-2002, 02:14 PM
sugar and spice sugar and spice is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by starang21


so being in a sorority means that you smile in someone's face you really don't like? then i guess all of those stereotypes of women in sororities are true? ok, cool with me. might as well be truthful with them instead, or just not tell them period.
And yet it's not two-faced to offer somebody a bid to your organization when you really don't want them there, and just spend the next semester beating them up in hopes that they quit? Because that seemed to be your suggestion a few posts up.

Being in a sorority means you try to live up to the ideals and principles your organization was founded upon. Most of the time this includes kindness to EVERYONE whether they are a member of your organization or not. Just because you don't want somebody in your sorority doesn't mean that you have any excuse to be mean.
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  #40  
Old 10-22-2002, 02:18 PM
starang21 starang21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sugar and spice


And yet it's not two-faced to offer somebody a bid to your organization when you really don't want them there, and just spend the next semester beating them up in hopes that they quit? Because that seemed to be your suggestion a few posts up.

Being in a sorority means you try to live up to the ideals and principles your organization was founded upon. Most of the time this includes kindness to EVERYONE whether they are a member of your organization or not. Just because you don't want somebody in your sorority doesn't mean that you have any excuse to be mean.
nah, that was a joke. my thing is, if you really don't like a person, what's the point of letting them in and dealing with their crap? cut them and call it a day. they'll be pissed whether or not you told them nicely.
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  #41  
Old 10-22-2002, 02:26 PM
dzrose93 dzrose93 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by starang21


so being in a sorority means that you smile in someone's face you really don't like? then i guess all of those stereotypes of women in sororities are true? ok, cool with me. might as well be truthful with them instead, or just not tell them period.
Starang21,

That's not what we're saying at all. What I and some other GCers are trying to get across is that being blunt to a rushee isn't how we do things in the NPC. And just because we don't give a rushee a specific reason for why she didn't get a bid does NOT mean that we're being two-faced or that "all of those stereotypes of women in sororities are true." Frankly, I would consider it EXTREMELY rude for one of my sisters to say something insulting to a rushee about her personality, morals, etc. To me, that would be very disrespectful to a girl who showed enough interest in my GLO to take the time to attend a Rush party. Just because that girl may not be a good "fit" for the chapter doesn't give me the right to insult her.

I know that NPHC orgs have different policies concerning Rush, and I can certainly understand that. I have the utmost respect for NPHC organizations, and I'm sure that they handle rushees in a way that is best for them. Please understand and respect the fact that we in the NPC have different policies, and that what works for you may not work for us.
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  #42  
Old 10-22-2002, 02:35 PM
AchtungBaby80 AchtungBaby80 is offline
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I know I'm gonna get a lot of flak over this one, but I'm going to have to side with starang21. While I don't agree with *everything* he (I'm assuming you're a guy...right?) says, he's got a point. Everything is not all sunshine and roses. Why gloss over the truth? I'm not saying we should go around informing PNMs of their faults (like saying "You're too annoying, so we're not going to pledge you"; "You have a bad haircut, you talk too much, and besides, you smell, so you're not getting a bid") but many of them *will* get angry even if you do let them down politely. So instead of giving subtle hints like "These next COB events are invitation only," what's wrong with being honest and saying, "I'm really sorry, but you won't get a bid." Provided you *are* sorry, of course...if not, then just leave that part out.

I don't think this thread is "crappy" at all, because as I said, everything isn't peachy all the time and things like this do come up, and often (gasp!). We shouldn't ignore it.
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  #43  
Old 10-22-2002, 02:39 PM
aopinthesky aopinthesky is offline
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>>>Originally posted by starang21


so being in a sorority means that you smile in someone's face you really don't like? then i guess all of those stereotypes of women in sororities are true? ok, cool with me. might as well be truthful with them instead, or just not tell them period. <<<


No, being in a sorority means that you make every effort to recruit members with whom you share things in common and feel will be a good fit overall and you do not recruit members who will not reflect well on your sisterhood or be contributing members of your organization. Finding the balance for doing this is hard for everyone, I think that was what the thread was about to begin with.

Anna
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  #44  
Old 10-22-2002, 02:42 PM
starang21 starang21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBaby80
I know I'm gonna get a lot of flak over this one, but I'm going to have to side with starang21. While I don't agree with *everything* he (I'm assuming you're a guy...right?) says, he's got a point. Everything is not all sunshine and roses. Why gloss over the truth? I'm not saying we should go around informing PNMs of their faults (like saying "You're too annoying, so we're not going to pledge you"; "You have a bad haircut, you talk too much, and besides, you smell, so you're not getting a bid") but many of them *will* get angry even if you do let them down politely. So instead of giving subtle hints like "These next COB events are invitation only," what's wrong with being honest and saying, "I'm really sorry, but you won't get a bid." Provided you *are* sorry, of course...if not, then just leave that part out.

I don't think this thread is "crappy" at all, because as I said, everything isn't peachy all the time and things like this do come up, and often (gasp!). We shouldn't ignore it.
uhh, yea. last time i checked, i was.
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  #45  
Old 10-22-2002, 02:54 PM
Blaire Blaire is offline
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Okay, let me see if I can clear a few things up. First, my chapter would never "pre-judge" someone. If a girl comes through recruitment, formal or otherwise, and we choose not to extend her a bid, THERE IS A VERY GOOD REASON WHY!!! It's not, "Oh, I didn't like her in high school b/c she stole my best friends boyfriend" or "I didn't like her shoes", its "She says she is more interested in XYZ" or "her GPA is a 2.3 and our requirement to stay off probation is a 2.5".

So here's a little scenario for you...Suzie Q decides to go through Spring Rush. She is invited to one of our social events...we vote. (different process than formal, which is why I can talk about it). If her GPA is not high enough, if she had NO community service in HS or did nothing (ie...2.5 GPA but no activities to speak of), she doesn't get a bid. If we don't know if she really wants to be a member we generally meet with her in a smaller enviornment (ie...4 or 5 of us go out to dinner with her). If we decide not to extend her a bid, more often than not, we'll tell her why. We are not being "two-faced" and its not all sunshine and roses. However, if I haul off and tell her that I don't like the way she dresses or that she acted like a henious b!tch, she'll probably then spread nasty rumors about my chapter and WE will suffer in the end. Guess what...hate to break it to you but that's what happens. Maybe it is different for other organizations/fraternites but we've had this same type of situation happen, unfortunatly. Plus I'm not so sure I could live with myself if I hurt someone's feelings like that.

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