Indiana University Recruitment - Page 8

IUHoosiergirl88 · #**106** 07-07-2009, 10:08 AM

I really have no opinion on the bed versus quota debate, I think there are advantages to each, and if we went to quota...quite frankly I think we'd have no choice but to add another chapter due to the number of girls that have to be placed.

VAgirl leaves out one crucial group though: the sophomore rush group, which I was a part of last year. I saw girls get cut from all houses after the first round, all but one, or all but two, and they were the one or two that they wanted to cut because they didn't click with them. As a sophomore, unless you ARE that girl with the friends/money/looks/etc, it's a very very tough road, often full of tears. I was in half-sophomore half freshman rho gamma group (so ~10-12 sophomores), and of the sophomores...only 2 of them got bids, 3 if you count my COB later. One actually was rushing for a second time because she wanted to go greek that bad, got cut again, and transferred out of IU. She's now a member of a house at an SEC school (don't ask me how, I have no idea, haha).

I just think that IU's system does have some flaws, and I'm saying that as a current member. We change the party structure this year, but I really don't necessarily see that helping much. It gives a chance for houses to invite back girls that they are borderline on, but does that translate to bids? I really don't think so.

VAgirl18 · #**107** 07-07-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88

I really have no opinion on the bed versus quota debate, I think there are advantages to each, and if we went to quota...quite frankly I think we'd have no choice but to add another chapter due to the number of girls that have to be placed.

VAgirl leaves out one crucial group though: the sophomore rush group, which I was a part of last year. I saw girls get cut from all houses after the first round, all but one, or all but two, and they were the one or two that they wanted to cut because they didn't click with them. As a sophomore, unless you ARE that girl with the friends/money/looks/etc, it's a very very tough road, often full of tears. I was in half-sophomore half freshman rho gamma group (so ~10-12 sophomores), and of the sophomores...only 2 of them got bids, 3 if you count my COB later. One actually was rushing for a second time because she wanted to go greek that bad, got cut again, and transferred out of IU. She's now a member of a house at an SEC school (don't ask me how, I have no idea, haha).

I just think that IU's system does have some flaws, and I'm saying that as a current member. We change the party structure this year, but I really don't necessarily see that helping much. It gives a chance for houses to invite back girls that they are borderline on, but does that translate to bids? I really don't think so.

You can't add another house when there are houses that still have space. It will never happen. Before that, a house would have to close and would most likely be given the chance to recolonize a few years later. They would probably form an agreement with a closing house so that no other houses will open during their dormancy.

Being a sophomore seriously isn't much of an issue. The problem stems from many women going through the process for a second time. Though people deserve second chances, many women acted horribly immature to the point of being remembered the next year and automatically getting cut. Another huge faux pas is getting invited to a few homes and then deciding not to continue with rush. They're most likely going to get those houses back during their second time through and why would a house want someone who didn't even have the respect to attend the party they were invited to the year before? THAT'S where the cuts stem from. That and if you're a sophomore, more people know you from seeing you around campus or being around class. Remember to be nice to everyone. If we hear you talking about people during class or being less than classy at frats, chances are you're getting cut for that reason.

The fact is that not all people are meant to be in houses and just because one wants to be in a house doesn't mean they are a good fit for any of the houses on campus. Its unfortunate that they can't find a fit, but they're naive to think that they automatically deserve a spot because they participated.

The other think I think is going to backfire is increasing the number of invites. Its already a daunting task to go from 12, 6, and 3 parties in a few days. Adding more parties is just going to increase fatigue. People may not be putting their best foot forward just for the simple fact that they're tired. Another flaw is that people think just because they only got 3 houses instead of invited back for 12 that they're not sorority material. Obviously someone thought something of you to invite you back. There are no houses that automatically invite everyone back, contrary to popular belief.

IUGreekGirl · #**108** 07-08-2009, 01:38 PM

VAGirl,
There are a good number of women that go through rush and decide to drop out. Like you said, not everyone can be Greek. But rush is the time where girls who are considering Greek life find out if it's a community they want to be a part of. And some of those girls get houses back and chose not to go through with it, not because of petty reasons. But because they have decided that Greek life in general isn't for them. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But the numbers show that the majority of women who are left without a bid on bidday have gone though the process as far as the process would allow them to go, have made grades, and have had a good clean rush. Our Rho Gammas strongly advise us against suiciding, and out of all the girls I've met who've gone through rush- I only know one who suicided. And she got that house.

I take issue with the sentiment that it's PNMs who have problems, and not the system. PNMs are completely educated by the Rho Gams as to the wrong ways to act, and the fact that just because you know a girl in a house or are a legacy there is no sure way into a bid. We all know how competitive rush is, so we put our best foot forward and hope that we either get a bid, or decide that it isn't for us. As a collegiate who has recently been on both sides of recruitment, I think that most of the PNMs understand fully what is good taste and bad taste during rush. That isn't to say that there are exceptions, there are rude girls, but with 1500 PNMs and you're trying to narrow that down to 40 girls for a new pledge class, it isn't difficult to weed out.

As to the bed quota system, I've decided for myself that it's a necessary evil, but ultimately fair, way to determine quota number. The fact that all our chapters are different sizes is truly an asset to the uniqueness of each chapter, and the IU Greek Community as a whole. However, out of the 19 chapters, only one has in recent years not made quota. The rest have more girls interested in the house that they can possibly take. While I think the bed quota system should stay, it is increasingly evident that another chapter should be invited to colonize on campus. There is more than enough interest in Greek Life to support another chapter, and I have faith that IUHoosierGirl88 and VAgirl's house will be again making quota very soon.

IUHoosiergirl88 · #**109** 07-09-2009, 07:48 PM

I completely agree with IUGreekGirl...I don't think every PNM who doesn't get a bid has something drastically wrong with her that makes her socially inept and whatnot. Sometimes the numbers just work against you, or your grade, or the girls you talked to.

I didn't recieve a bid through formal recruitment, and does that mean there's something horribly wrong with me? I certainly hope not, considering I'm a member of an amazing chapter. Granted, there are rude girls, or party girls or whatever that go through rush and get cut because of that, but there are perfectly normal girls that get cut in the same manner.

xp2k · #**110** 09-17-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAgirl18

You can't add another house when there are houses that still have space. It will never happen. Before that, a house would have to close and would most likely be given the chance to recolonize a few years later. They would probably form an agreement with a closing house so that no other houses will open during their dormancy.

This actually isnt the case.

A struggling chapter should rarely (if ever) be used as an excuse to hold off expansion.

IU (re)added AOII in 99/2000. Not only was the colony able to get 150 girls, but the excitement that they generated encouraged MORE women to go through recruitment which in turned helped increase pledge size classes for a few chapters that were a little shy of the numbers they needed.

The chapter that was struggling didnt die...but still continues to struggle.

Had the university held off on adding a sorority to "help" the struggling group...that would be another 50+ women per year who would not have the opportunity to go greek.

A good friend of mine is helping the struggling chapter and I think they're going to be on a great upswing in the next few years. This year's recruitment will be very crucial. Keep the momentum going ladies!

I think IU could maybe add one more sorority for the time being.

barnard1897 · #**111** 09-18-2009, 12:27 AM

What are the remaining NPC groups that don't have chapters at IU? I believe there are a small handful, and some of them had chapters there that folded. Didn't Sigma Kappa build a gorgeous house on that campus some years ago, only to have the chapter not make it? I may be recalling the wrong house, so please forgive me if I don't remember the story right anymore.

AOII did return to campus successfully, but it was a recolonization after a relatively short housecleaning, shall we say. I'm really happy that it generated such positive upswing for recruitment as a whole. But since it had a long history at IU, with a groundswell of alum and national support for a newly built home and return to active status, the chapter was on optimal footing to make a great comeback. I imagine the campus panhellenic wanted and needed this chapter to have a strong return, too, to accommodate more of the many wonderful women who go through recruitment. You really need that perfect storm, though, for everything to go right for the long term.

I am not convinced that letting go of the bed quota and live-in requirements at IU would sound the deathknell of successful chapter life at IU. Many other large state campuses do not require full chapter live-in and seem to do just fine with chapters as large as 200 women. I am sure women from those other schools are not lamenting a year living out of the house or saying that they have lost a uniqueness in chapter character for it. IU is not the only campus to have over 1,000 women going through, and yet, the placement stats there are by far the worst on a national scale. To simply say it is mostly a matter of PNM quality (or lack thereof) is inaccurate. Many of the 150 who found no match last year had maximized their options throughout recruitment. Some had a full dance ticket. Were they not worthy of membership in a house?

Yes, many IU freshmen succumb to tent talk and fail to keep an open mind. They don't make it because they don't know how or don't want to play the game. But many more DO play the game, do have the grades and other positive qualities, and would make great members. Yet, everyone's still sitting around counting beds?!!

I am just not persuaded that, simply because IU has done things this way forever, it should remain the case. IU markets itself as a school with tradition, and a big part of that tradition and package is Greek life. The school sells that to parents and incoming students. Does it mention in the brochure that about 50% of those girls who go through recruitment will likely never see a sorority bid? We do not promise or guarantee membership, but as part of NPC, we should all work towards greatest opportunity possible for PNMs. I think work needs to be done at IU to achieve that.

irishpipes · #**112** 09-18-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnard1897

What are the remaining NPC groups that don't have chapters at IU? I believe there are a small handful, and some of them had chapters there that folded.

Previously at IU:
Sigma Kappa 1918-1994
Theta Phi Alpha 1920-1959
Delta Phi Epsilon 1946-1952
Sigma Sigma Sigma 1989-1994
Alpha Sigma Alpha 1990?-1994

Never at IU:
Alpha Sigma Tau
Phi Sigma Sigma

Hoosierxgirl · #**113** 10-01-2010, 08:09 AM

Does anyone know why three chapters left IU all in the same year? That's kind of bizarre.

33girl · #**114** 10-01-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoosierxgirl

Does anyone know why three chapters left IU all in the same year? That's kind of bizarre.

I know with ASA and I'm guessing also Tri Sigma, we didn't have houses and couldn't compete with the other groups because of it. Admirable experiment (Greek life for those who don't want to have to live in a house) that didn't work, apparently. I know we had a dedicated consultant (she was a grad student there) and tried REALLY hard to keep that chapter going. But it appears that living in a house at IU is every bit as much a part of the Greek experience there as mixers, meetings, or ritual. If you didn't want to live in a house, you wouldn't rush to begin with.

Have no idea what happened with Sigma Kappa.

DubaiSis · #**115** 10-01-2010, 12:52 PM

Since the houses at IU are mammoth, there's going to be a LOT of women living in, even if they did allow live-out members. I think this is the case at all of the big campuses of the Big 10, Big 12, SEC, etc. Yes, a new chapter would need to have a house on this type of campus, but I don't see why they need to have ALL their members living in.

Is there a member retention issue with requiring girls to live in that 3rd year?

Titchou · #**116** 10-01-2010, 06:32 PM

No, IU has bed total so a group can only pledge up to the number of empty beds. Greek women, beyond freshman year, only live in the house.

ladybug12 · #**117** 10-01-2010, 08:38 PM

I believe that is incorrect. Tradition on IU campus has been to pledge bed total, but chapters can pledge over that number...has been going on for at least 4 years that I am aware.

There is no set "quota" number as on other campuses...so I am not sure how release figures are handled.

Drolefille · #**118** 10-01-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladybug12

I believe that is incorrect. Tradition on IU campus has been to pledge bed total, but chapters can pledge over that number...has been going on for at least 4 years that I am aware.

There is no set "quota" number as on other campuses...so I am not sure how release figures are handled.

I think you have to have some sort of target number for formal recruitment...

DeltaBetaBaby · #**119** 10-01-2010, 09:03 PM

I think part of the live-in deal is that the Greek area isn't really near much else. I don't know what housing is like for upperclassmen at IU, but perhaps it is difficult to live outside of the house and feel connected?

I dunno, I remember a visit to IU had my pledge sisters saying they really wished our house was as nice as the one there, and I reminded them how we'd all be horrified to live in a chapter house our senior year.

DubaiSis · #**120** 10-02-2010, 06:26 AM

This is one of those philosophical arguments where I could pick either side and fight for it. I lived in 3 years and wouldn't have it any other way, but I know a lot of women drop out if their choice is live in or deactivate.

But the part that I would find a little frustrating is the inability to take all the members you'd like, within some sort of competitive framework of course. But if Ladybug is right, then that's cool. It just might not be TRADITION to exceed bed total. But I could see getting around that (a senior annex of some sort in a different part of campus or town?) to accommodate more PNMs without having to build 19 airport hangers on campus. At least when I visited IU, the houses did seem very remote, but that was a long time ago. Maybe it doesn't seem like it's out in a corn field any more.

GEEK ALERT Sorry, one more question. If a campus doesn't function under quota (Nebraska being another one) do they use RFM? Both of these colleges have successful Greek systems, so whatever they do seems to work; I just don't understand the process.