Phi Sigma Sigma discontinues legacy policy.

[AngelPhiSig]

Long time no post... but I’ve been lurking lately.

We just got an email stating that Phi Sig will be discontinuing the legacy policy.

I’m wondering if every NPC org will continue to follow the ones that have already announced.

[FSUZeta]

I wouldn't be surprised. However, it seems to me that eliminating recommendation letters would have a bigger impact than targeting legacies.

[AngelPhiSig]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

I wouldn't be surprised. However, it seems to me that eliminating recommendation letters would have a bigger impact than targeting legacies.

I know that Phi Sig does not ever require rec letters, even if it is tradition at the school. (We don’t have many chapters in the south, where I feel most schools that want recs are located - I’m a northern girl, I didn’t know this was a thing until GC!)

[Jen]

I'm hoping sorority recs will be changed to "rec from a person who knows you personally and doesn't have to be a sorority member".

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Jen

I'm hoping sorority recs will be changed to "rec from a person who knows you personally and doesn't have to be a sorority member".

Preach! I've been calling for this for a decade at least. It's insane to me that 18-year-old women going through recruitment at some of these schools with 15+ chapters (for example) have to expend all their energy to get just as many recs, if not more (if aiming for two per sorority).

And what do the recs really say if they come from someone the PNM doesn't personally know and ultimately just amount to a formality?

[SWTXBelle]

I would be all for that, in addition to allowing alumnae the opportunity to write recs.

[carnation]

The only thing with allowing non-members to write recs: a member is likely to be cautious about writing a rec for someone who's capable of screwing up her sorority. A non-member is not going to be affected if said girl ends up pledging a group and doing horrendous things once in.

She could say truthfully, "Oh, Patty PNM has great grades and activities!" and rave about that. Maybe she knows that the girl is an advanced drama queen or vicious gossip or flaming racist as well (or maybe she doesn't), but you know what? She won't care if the girl pledges and tears up the chapter or even loses their charter for them. I recall a chapter in Florida that almost lost their charter because 2 (only 2!) members took some NMs out and hazed them.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by carnation

The only thing with allowing non-members to write recs: a member is likely to be cautious about writing a rec for someone who's capable of screwing up her sorority. A non-member is not going to be affected if said girl ends up pledging a group and doing horrendous things once in.

She could say truthfully, "Oh, Patty PNM has great grades and activities!" and rave about that. Maybe she knows that the girl is an advanced drama queen or vicious gossip or flaming racist as well (or maybe she doesn't), but you know what? She won't care if the girl pledges and tears up the chapter or even loses their charter for them. I recall a chapter in Florida that almost lost their charter because 2 (only 2!) members took some NMs out and hazed them.

Practically every NPHC organization requires some sort of external letter of recommendation.

Most people aren't writing letters of recommendation for people they know are terrible people.

[carnation]

See, that's the thing. As a teacher of manymany years, I have known many other teachers who were totally clueless about some of the meanest bullies in school. These kids would act like Eddie Haskell around teachers (or certain teachers) and do horrible things to their "enemies". Once I caught 2 Eddies upending a cooler of KoolAid over the head of another girl in the hall--caught them redhanded!-- and the AP kept saying she went to church with them and they neeevvver would have done such a thing.

So many teachers get fooled because students know that later on, they'll need various recommendations.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by carnation

See, that's the thing. As a teacher of manymany years, I have known many other teachers who were totally clueless about some of the meanest bullies in school. These kids would act like Eddie Haskell around teachers (or certain teachers) and do horrible things to their "enemies". Once I caught 2 Eddies upending a cooler of KoolAid over the head of another girl in the hall--caught them redhanded!-- and the AP kept saying she went to church with them and they neeevvver would have done such a thing.

So many teachers get fooled because students know that later on, they'll need various recommendations.

Agree with you about the "Eddie Haskells" as they can appear as early as elementary school.



When my mother was asked to write recommendations for our high school by the local Panhellenic Alumnae, she came to her three kids to ask for real scoop on these PNMs. Honestly I believe my brother was the best source our of the three of us and she was able to write a rec with confidence. (I believe she only wrote one "non-rec.")

[FSUZeta]

Good point.

[AngelPhiSig]

I could see rec letters being a letter from any sorority alum. I obviously never get to write any, but I know so many former students that I would love to write to a chapter and say, “This is a great woman! You want her!” But alas, I can’t.

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by AngelPhiSig

I could see rec letters being a letter from any sorority alum. I obviously never get to write any, but I know so many former students that I would love to write to a chapter and say, “This is a great woman! You want her!” But alas, I can’t.

If this was to happen, it would also need to be letters that the PNM doesn't ever see. Just like the letters of recommendation that are sent when you apply for college. You request them from the teachers, and unless the teacher shares the letter on it's own, the student has no way of knowing what it says.

Maybe you request letters and they are sent through panhellenic at the university and every chapter gets the same letters or something. That way if your letter is a "danger will robinson" and more of a no-rec, then it doesn't come back on you.

As a recruitment advisor, the no-rec recs always seem more helpful.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

a "danger will robinson" and more of a no-rec, then it doesn't come back on you.

[shadokat]

OK, so I went to Phi Sigma Sigma's website to hopefully understand WHY eliminating this legacy policy is so prudent for NPC organizations. And again, the explanation is that

"continuing to offer any preferential treatment perpetuates and upholds a system of privilege within our membership and does not meet our responsibility to promote inclusivity."

I'm sorry, but sorority and fraternity membership is exclusive, whether we like it or not, and changing a legacy policy isn't going to change that. Being in a greek organization requires several things that signal "exclusivity", one being you have to PAY to be a member. That item, in and of itself, is a HUGE reason limiting women who may be fabulous from joining. Are our national organizations now going to offer scholarship assistance for dues to these fabulous women who can't afford to pay dues?

Let's move on to the recruitment process, which in some places means that a PNM has to buy an entire week's worth of new clothes to "look the part" of a sorority member on their campus. If she can't afford that, is she going to be given a "clothing allowance"? My pledge sister and best friend's daughter is going to be going through recruitment at Alabama in the fall, and let's just say she spent QUITE A BIT of money to get her what she needs to "be competitive". On top of that, you charge a woman at least $250 to GO THROUGH recruitment, with no guarantee that she gets a bid. Should we refund the registration fees if she isn't successful? In-house fees at Alabama average $7,200 PER SEMESTER and out-of-house fees are nearly $3,600 PER SEMESTER. How is THAT not limiting the women who can join a sorority?

I do believe that economics is the first thing that would need to change for sorority membership to stop limiting women from joining. No amount of legacy policy changes are going to change the fact that the cost of joining a sorority or fraternity is the number 1 limiting factor against inclusivity.

Here's a thought. Let's stop the madness with all the fees and nickel and diming that national organizations love to do. Hell, let's get rid of the ridiculous mansions that chapters live in, which cost millions of dollars to build and maintain. Let's have the national organizations find ways to lower their costs, and pass that savings on to the chapters, who can then lower their dues to allow for inclusivity. That makes a WHOLE LOT more sense than removing a legacy policy.

OK, rant over...sorry if I've offended anyone.