GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Chapter Operations

Chapter Operations Share plans, ideas, and brainstorm problems related to chapter operations. Topics also include parliamentary procedure, national programs, innovations & etc.


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 316,471
Threads: 115,725
Posts: 2,173,455
Welcome to our newest member, PhilippPax
» Online Users: 430
1 members and 429 guests
PhilippPax
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:02 PM
ham1 ham1 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
Former members & drop outs hanging on

Writing in from a small chapter (around 20 ideal size) at a small school in a rural area. We have some brothers who for whatever reason have transferred out back to community college or have dropped/failed out entirely. These former brothers incorrectly assume they count as alumnae because they were a part of the chapter then had to leave for a reason other than dropping the fraternity. They continue to invite themselves to functions and ask to have current brothers let them into the house. Some of our current brothers are understandably really good friends with some of these former members as they pledged together or joined together as friends but some other brothers are uneasy about the situation and think their behavior is clingy and kind of sad. I understand these guys don't have much going on but they don't pay dues (they paid their debts but obviously aren't on the roster anymore) and don't even go to our school anymore.. their only connection is past membership for only a couple semesters at most and friends they still have.

Being too heavy handed on these guys would have the effect of pissing off their friends still in the chapter, and might cause some discord in our chapter, but letting these guys continue to cling to our chapter is not our responsibility.

Am I being a bit of a bitch here or has anyone else had this problem? I know at larger schools the system works a lot smoother and is more like a machine but our school support is limited and we play most things by ear
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-29-2020, 12:55 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,144
Ummm....I advise you to look at your national policies. Unless they had their membership terminated by the fraternity, they ARE alumni. And you’re not being a bit of a bitch, you’re being a straight up a-hole.

If the problem is that they’re eating your food or drinking your drink for free, ask them to pitch in some money. When they refuse to do that is when you can get irritated at the situation. From what you say, they aren’t misbehaving or causing problems, so it’s not a risk management issue.

This is really common at smaller rural schools, so if you find it so annoying, I suggest you transfer.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil

Last edited by 33girl; 07-29-2020 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Boys not girls
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:47 AM
chi-o_cat chi-o_cat is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 488
Do you have chapter advisors who can help?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:55 AM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Ummm....I advise you to look at your national policies. Unless they had their membership terminated by the fraternity, they ARE alumnae.
This is something you seem to be missing. As alumni of your chapter, they should be welcome to come back when they want to. Our organizations encourage membership for life. It's truly sad that you can't see that distinction.

Perhaps empathy is needed here. They probably wish they were still enrolled. They may have had to leave for financial reasons or other issues out of their control. To add to that pain by telling them they are no longer welcome at a place that feels like home to them is pretty crappy.

What does your brotherhood really mean to you?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-29-2020, 09:50 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 5,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by ham1 View Post
Writing in from a small chapter (around 20 ideal size) at a small school in a rural area. We have some brothers who for whatever reason have transferred out back to community college or have dropped/failed out entirely. These former brothers incorrectly assume they count as alumnae because they were a part of the chapter then had to leave for a reason other than dropping the fraternity. They continue to invite themselves to functions and ask to have current brothers let them into the house. Some of our current brothers are understandably really good friends with some of these former members as they pledged together or joined together as friends but some other brothers are uneasy about the situation and think their behavior is clingy and kind of sad. I understand these guys don't have much going on but they don't pay dues (they paid their debts but obviously aren't on the roster anymore) and don't even go to our school anymore.. their only connection is past membership for only a couple semesters at most and friends they still have.

Being too heavy handed on these guys would have the effect of pissing off their friends still in the chapter, and might cause some discord in our chapter, but letting these guys continue to cling to our chapter is not our responsibility.

Am I being a bit of a bitch here or has anyone else had this problem? I know at larger schools the system works a lot smoother and is more like a machine but our school support is limited and we play most things by ear
To the bold: It sounds like these brothers are still members in good standing with the fraternity. In other words, membership wasn't revoked. If not, and they simply dropped out of school or transferred, they are still members of your fraternity. Your membership doesn't start and end with the school/chapter you pledged and were initiated at. It's for life.

Also, what events are they showing up to that is making some brothers uneasy and uncomfortable? I can understand there being a problem if they were showing up to recruitment/rush events drunk, for example, and making the fraternity look bad in front of potential members, or if they crashed formal having not paid for anything. But if they're just hanging out at the fraternity house, where's the issue?

They're your brothers. Not former brothers, or past brothers, just your brothers. You initiated them and welcomed them into your organization, so why is there suddenly an issue with them? Because you think their life is sad? Please tell me that's not it.
__________________
I believe in the values of friendship and fidelity to purpose

@~/~~~~
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-29-2020, 10:04 AM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of Chaos
Posts: 9,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by ham1 View Post
Writing in from a small chapter (around 20 ideal size) at a small school in a rural area. We have some brothers who for whatever reason have transferred out back to community college or have dropped/failed out entirely. These former brothers incorrectly assume they count as alumnae because they were a part of the chapter then had to leave for a reason other than dropping the fraternity. They continue to invite themselves to functions and ask to have current brothers let them into the house. Some of our current brothers are understandably really good friends with some of these former members as they pledged together or joined together as friends but some other brothers are uneasy about the situation and think their behavior is clingy and kind of sad. I understand these guys don't have much going on but they don't pay dues (they paid their debts but obviously aren't on the roster anymore) and don't even go to our school anymore.. their only connection is past membership for only a couple semesters at most and friends they still have.

Being too heavy handed on these guys would have the effect of pissing off their friends still in the chapter, and might cause some discord in our chapter, but letting these guys continue to cling to our chapter is not our responsibility.

Am I being a bit of a bitch here or has anyone else had this problem? I know at larger schools the system works a lot smoother and is more like a machine but our school support is limited and we play most things by ear
QFP. Yep, being a real bitch here. As has been noted, they are indeed alumni unless you are a local with some sort of weird qualifications for alumni status. If they are trying to come to events that are for actives only, that is one thing. You would be perfectly within your rights to tell ALL alumni that it is an active only activity. But overall - do you not want any alumni support? Because this is how you end up with no alumni support. Just because their lives took a different path shouldn't mean they are somehow "less" than, and it may well be that they end up in a position to do the chapter a lot of good, unless you completely alienate them. And if they are at a difficult place in their lives, shouldn't your brotherhood be supporting them? What is your fraternity about - a good time while at college, and then nothing else?
__________________
Gamma Phi Beta
Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, love is given.
Proud daughter AND mother of a Gamma Phi. 3 generations of love, labor, learning and loyalty.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-29-2020, 10:41 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 4,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
QFP. Yep, being a real bitch here. As has been noted, they are indeed alumni unless you are a local with some sort of weird qualifications for alumni status. If they are trying to come to events that are for actives only, that is one thing. You would be perfectly within your rights to tell ALL alumni that it is an active only activity. But overall - do you not want any alumni support? Because this is how you end up with no alumni support. Just because their lives took a different path shouldn't mean they are somehow "less" than, and it may well be that they end up in a position to do the chapter a lot of good, unless you completely alienate them. And if they are at a difficult place in their lives, shouldn't your brotherhood be supporting them? What is your fraternity about - a good time while at college, and then nothing else?
Oh, you go girl!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-29-2020, 01:34 PM
Iota_JWH Iota_JWH is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 155
There was a similar situation at an NPC chapter that I advised, small school, small chapter. There were a string of women who either dropped out or went through the process to take Early Alumnae status (usual reasons were money and time.) However, many of these women continued to show up at nearly all "fun" meetings, essentially enjoying the benefits of collegian membership without paying any dues. So, the chapter decided to clearly list what events were open to Alumnae and when they could come (like Bid Day, Big-little reveal), and which events were Collegian only (Sisterhood nights, socials, etc.). There schedule was clearly disseminated to all. This really helped.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-29-2020, 01:40 PM
PhilTau PhilTau is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 160
Now days, a bad alumni can get your chapter in big trouble really fast. So your concerns are not unreasonable. Contact your chapter's alumni group officers and get them involved with the issue. Let them be the "bad guy" on this issue/problem not you, the active.

I was an executive officer for my chapter my entire time as a chapter active. My chapter is not unlike the original poster's chapter. It was years ago. We also had a lot of alumni hanging around, which was good, but we had strict rules. Though I never saw them written down, I'll just list what I remember.

1. Alumni (which included any member not enrolled in the university) fell into two groups. Initiated and uninitiated. As actives, we never knew who was not initiated, but the alumni group's officers did. Though looking back after I graduated, it seems that uninitiated alumni never came back.

2. Alumni (and actives not current with active chapter dues) were not allowed to come to mixers or any event with a sorority or any official chapter social function where unmarried women were present.

3. Alumni could come to the homecoming party and spring formal if current with active member dues. (We told the alumni group president that alumni who owed substantial dues as actives were showing up at formals. So at the spring formal he stood at the door and made them pay the past dues along with the party fee before they could enter.)

4. Unmarried alumni enrolled in graduate programs at the university and who were on the faculty as graduate teaching assistants were not required to be actives and were welcome at all active fraternity functions. If they were not on faculty, they had to be actives in order to attend social functions.

5. For informal parties, alumni were always allowed. We expected them to behave (and they did). Any sign of drugs or problems and that person was persona non grata.

6. During summers, we did allow alumni to rent a room at the chapter house. They were required to have an undergraduate active roommate though. This would only be done if during the summer session the room could not be filled with an active. However, the alumni had to have a very good reason for needing the room - like a temporary work relocation, attending classes, etc. There were no official fraternity functions in the summer. (For many reasons, this would likely not be workable today.)

7. Alumni who were married could only attend homecoming and spring formal events. They were not welcome at any other official active chapter event if unmarried women were present.

Though these may attract criticism today, they were what I remember and what we did.

Last edited by PhilTau; 07-29-2020 at 01:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-29-2020, 02:40 PM
APhi2KD APhi2KD is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 272
It’s very normal at my daughters chapter (where she’s a sweetheart). They’re welcome anytime and still hang out. If there is a party, they are expected to contribute cash or supplies. If there is a problem with one/more of them, they’d be asked to leave.

Are you talking guys who just left or did they have their membership revoked? Are they causing problems? Do you feel you’re competing with councils past? Maybe if you explain your issue with it, you’d get a better response.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-29-2020, 06:07 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,144
He says they had to leave for a reason “other than dropping the fraternity” so either they transferred or failed out of school. I would think if they were causing trouble of any sort, he would have brought that up to strengthen his case. It honestly sounds like these guys are just coming back to hang out with their friends. His main complaint seems to be that they’re clingy and sad.

Also, if girls were upset by their presence at mixers or parties, I would think he would have brought that up too. Fact is the girls probably know them and have no problem with it. We’re not talking about 30 year old alums trying to pick up girls at mixers, these are college aged guys.

I realize that if your Greek experience was something very structured it might seem strange, but I honestly can’t think of a group on my campus where recent alums and/or transfers didn’t come back and hang out.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-30-2020, 01:54 AM
knight_shadow knight_shadow is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 14,132
To the OP - I don't think you are being a bitch here. It sounds like these individuals didn't fulfill their end of the organizational deal but are trying to reap the benefits. I understand that frustration both from an undergrad perspective and from a national officer perspective. When I served on our national board, our insurance covered active members and alumni, so when rogue members dropped by it was a clusterfuck for us.

Check your organization's policies (or your regional/national HQ if you have one) to see what the rules are regarding alumni status and/or what happens when members aren't upholding required standards. If there aren't rules and your chapter is still concerned, consider laying out some ground rules about when/where non-active members can show up. If there are rules, then present those to the non-members and their member friends.

Good luck.
__________________
*does side bends and sit-ups*
*doesn't lose butt*

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:30 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,144
They ARE alumni. They became alumni when they left school in good standing with the fraternity. They don’t have unpaid dues so they DID fulfill their end of the bargain.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-30-2020, 01:01 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 3,573
Send a message via AIM to shadokat Send a message via Yahoo to shadokat
So I think policies are different in different organizations, so consulting our national organization would be your first step.

In DPhiE, if you fail out of school or transfer out to a campus that does not have a DPhiE chapter, you do not automatically become an alumnae member. Based off of the semester you were a new member, the year in school that you pledged and what your anticipated graduation year would be (so if I pledged in Fall 2019 as a freshman and my anticipated graduation year is 2023, I'd be active for four years), that determines your status.

In my example, let's say I transferred after spring 2020. So I was active for one year, and if I had stayed at my university, I would have three more active years. Our national organization requires that you pay national dues for the years you would have been active, and THEN you can become an alum. The national organization bills these transfer/non-continuing status folks, and you pay directly to national.

Reasoning behind this is you may apply to and be accepted at a new school that has a chapter of the sorority and you'll be active again OR you may transfer to another school that has DPhiE and you could be active again. That's how it is SUPPOSED TO work. Of the roughly 20 women who took transfer/non-continuing status when I advised my last chapter, there were three women who definitely left school for a year, and then transferred to another school where there was a DPhiE chapter.

Just a real-life perspective...take it for what you will
__________________
Be a leader; Be Yourself; Be DPhiE - Esse Quam Videri
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-30-2020, 01:37 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 4,278
And in Delta Gamma, once you are not in the school where you were initiated, you are automatically an alum. If you transfer to another school where have a chapter, you can seek to affiliate...or not.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spaces When New Members Drop carnation Sorority Recruitment 9 08-24-2013 08:41 PM
Does a shorter associate program lead to more drop-outs? WTH Recruitment 82 10-31-2011 10:17 PM
What does a pig hanging from a tree mean? timessquare007 Chit Chat 33 04-04-2009 10:40 PM
College Drop-Outs DSTRen13 Greek Life 12 01-02-2008 04:09 PM
Hanging out in the Wild West.. NinjaPoodle Sigma Gamma Rho 3 10-30-2001 01:58 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.