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  #31  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:48 AM
victoriana victoriana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
What typically happens:

Girl goes through FR.
Girl has an unfavorable outcome (doesn't get a bid, gets bid and turns it down, etc.)
Girl decides to start local.
Girl bases that on bashing other sororities and what the other sororities aren't doing.
Girl alienates all sorority members.
Girl fails at starting local.
Girl has no shot at all of joining any other chapter because well, she spent an entire year bashing them.
You're right. It's just sad to watch this in action. The OP seems like a nice enough girl who could do well in a smaller chapter like Peggy Olson and really help turn things around. Wasted potential.
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  #32  
Old 04-04-2011, 11:05 AM
SC2013 SC2013 is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
OK, I'm sorry, but I just gotta say it.

How old are you? REALLY?

Heaven knows I love when current students come on here and are well spoken - it reaffirms my faith in the youth of today - but you sound like a 50 year old professor teaching a sociology course. It's more than a tad off-putting.
I'm nineteen! Sorry if that's off-putting...

Anyhow...to clarify. Oh boy. I have every intention of rushing that small sorority that many of you have recommended to me in the fall, but as of now I am ineligible to rush because of formal recruitment rules. As such, I decided to reach out to the GC community in the meantime to see if perhaps starting up a new sorority with a 100% clean slate would be an even better bet. I saw that there was a local forum, didn't know much about locals, but asked the question to get the cogs in my brain turning while I bide my time til the fall.

The resounding response is first and foremost I already have to be within the Greek community (which I plan to be for sure) in order to make effective change, and that joining an already established but smaller sorority is better than starting from scratch (which I definitely didn't know). This is the advice I had been seeking so I thank you.

So I hope that we are all actually somewhat on the same page in terms of, you need to become Greek to know Greek to improve Greek. I thought that forming a local could be that "becoming Greek", but maybe I jumped the gun by posting on here without thoroughly scanning the locals forum, where locals are viewed more negatively than I anticipated. I did not realize locals were viewed as anti-Greek-but-trying-to-be-Greek organizations, and that colored my question badly. I am not anti-Greek. In any case, I still see the inherent problems of our university's social system (Greek vs. GDI, the Row vs. the University, guys' treatment of girls, girls being ok with it, alcohol being necessary for people to attend things, etc.) and still hope to turn things into a more positive environment, hopefully in the fall in that sorority.

In terms of my prior recruitment: I am not a status hungry person. (If you're wondering, then, why on earth I would want to be the founder of a local, it would be in order not to alienate girls already in a house, a new member coming in with a new mission statement and direction and things. But! You have all said that I would be more effective already in an established sorority for reasons ranging from financial to practical and I appreciate that, because I hadn't considered it and came to you for advice.) I was gung-ho to get very involved with leadership positions in my sorority, but I went to pref for a sorority I felt comfortable in and one I did not. I received a bid to one I did not feel comfortable in, and that one happened to be the house that has trouble during formal recruitment.

I had a whole moral dilemma with declining that bid, which you are free to PM me about or check out my recruitment thread. But I would have declined a bid at any house where conversation was forced and stilted during pref. (I consider it practically a sacred thing. I'm weird.) Status was not an issue. I mean...starting a local would mean having a group of 8 girls tops, and that's pushing it.
Being a writer, I decided to share my recruitment story with you on GC because I feel like it's an interesting case and in any case learned things that future PNMs could benefit from. But I had moved on, immersed myself in classes, work, volunteering, relationships, and my professional fraternity. Meanwhile my best friend has been going through dilemmas of her own within her sorority, and one roommate dropped hers out of lack of time. It wasn't until these recent USC scandals that I reexamined the Greek system and how we (as in USC, as in the Greek community, as in the media in general) are handling it.

USC students received an email from the administration after the Kappa Sig email, saying how it was wrong, offensive, etc...and then essentially "but someone from Harvard wrote it, thank god it wasn't us! So we're good!" which I and many people felt was a cop out. It was no comfort to those offended by the email, and they would prefer to see something along the lines of, yes it was wrong, and doesn't matter who wrote it, but this is a good opportunity to discuss what caused this email to be written and to discuss how to treat each other with respect. Instead no discussion came of it.
And now recently the Greek system was put on probation, which sucks because a girlfriend said that formal recruitment might be cancelled in the fall if more problems occur this semester. However, the overwhelming response to the punishment has been "shit! When can we party again!?" I say overwhelming but lots of people are negatively affected by this apart from partying. I know because I have friends that are officers in Kappa Sig, other fraternities, other sororities, student government, leaders in Panhellenic, and they often say how difficult it is to make positive change in a group that already has an entrenched history. As a member of a fraternity trying to move forward and be the best we can be, I know how that is. I'm not saying any group is perfect, and I'm not saying that I am better than anyone. I thought that a clean slate might be effective and your advice has been pointing to look elsewhere. So I appreciate your advice and will do so.
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  #33  
Old 04-04-2011, 11:11 AM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2013 View Post
maybe I jumped the gun by posting on here without thoroughly scanning the locals forum, where locals are viewed more negatively than I anticipated. I did not realize locals were viewed as anti-Greek-but-trying-to-be-Greek organizations, and that colored my question badly.
There are many locals that have long histories on their campuses and are very highly respected. There are other locals that are newer, but have a specific purpose that differs from most of the groups in the NPC. Nobody looks down on "locals". We look down on women with founderitis that think starting a local is the solution to their failed formal recruitment attempt.
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  #34  
Old 04-04-2011, 11:53 AM
AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2013 View Post
I'm nineteen! Sorry if that's off-putting...

Anyhow...to clarify. Oh boy. I have every intention of rushing that small sorority that many of you have recommended to me in the fall, but as of now I am ineligible to rush because of formal recruitment rules. As such, I decided to reach out to the GC community in the meantime to see if perhaps starting up a new sorority with a 100% clean slate would be an even better bet. I saw that there was a local forum, didn't know much about locals, but asked the question to get the cogs in my brain turning while I bide my time til the fall.

The resounding response is first and foremost I already have to be within the Greek community (which I plan to be for sure) in order to make effective change, and that joining an already established but smaller sorority is better than starting from scratch (which I definitely didn't know). This is the advice I had been seeking so I thank you.

So I hope that we are all actually somewhat on the same page in terms of, you need to become Greek to know Greek to improve Greek. I thought that forming a local could be that "becoming Greek", but maybe I jumped the gun by posting on here without thoroughly scanning the locals forum, where locals are viewed more negatively than I anticipated. I did not realize locals were viewed as anti-Greek-but-trying-to-be-Greek organizations, and that colored my question badly. I am not anti-Greek. In any case, I still see the inherent problems of our university's social system (Greek vs. GDI, the Row vs. the University, guys' treatment of girls, girls being ok with it, alcohol being necessary for people to attend things, etc.) and still hope to turn things into a more positive environment, hopefully in the fall in that sorority.

In terms of my prior recruitment: I am not a status hungry person. (If you're wondering, then, why on earth I would want to be the founder of a local, it would be in order not to alienate girls already in a house, a new member coming in with a new mission statement and direction and things. But! You have all said that I would be more effective already in an established sorority for reasons ranging from financial to practical and I appreciate that, because I hadn't considered it and came to you for advice.) I was gung-ho to get very involved with leadership positions in my sorority, but I went to pref for a sorority I felt comfortable in and one I did not. I received a bid to one I did not feel comfortable in, and that one happened to be the house that has trouble during formal recruitment.

I had a whole moral dilemma with declining that bid, which you are free to PM me about or check out my recruitment thread. But I would have declined a bid at any house where conversation was forced and stilted during pref. (I consider it practically a sacred thing. I'm weird.) Status was not an issue. I mean...starting a local would mean having a group of 8 girls tops, and that's pushing it.
Being a writer, I decided to share my recruitment story with you on GC because I feel like it's an interesting case and in any case learned things that future PNMs could benefit from. But I had moved on, immersed myself in classes, work, volunteering, relationships, and my professional fraternity. Meanwhile my best friend has been going through dilemmas of her own within her sorority, and one roommate dropped hers out of lack of time. It wasn't until these recent USC scandals that I reexamined the Greek system and how we (as in USC, as in the Greek community, as in the media in general) are handling it.

USC students received an email from the administration after the Kappa Sig email, saying how it was wrong, offensive, etc...and then essentially "but someone from Harvard wrote it, thank god it wasn't us! So we're good!" which I and many people felt was a cop out. It was no comfort to those offended by the email, and they would prefer to see something along the lines of, yes it was wrong, and doesn't matter who wrote it, but this is a good opportunity to discuss what caused this email to be written and to discuss how to treat each other with respect. Instead no discussion came of it.
And now recently the Greek system was put on probation, which sucks because a girlfriend said that formal recruitment might be cancelled in the fall if more problems occur this semester. However, the overwhelming response to the punishment has been "shit! When can we party again!?" I say overwhelming but lots of people are negatively affected by this apart from partying. I know because I have friends that are officers in Kappa Sig, other fraternities, other sororities, student government, leaders in Panhellenic, and they often say how difficult it is to make positive change in a group that already has an entrenched history. As a member of a fraternity trying to move forward and be the best we can be, I know how that is. I'm not saying any group is perfect, and I'm not saying that I am better than anyone. I thought that a clean slate might be effective and your advice has been pointing to look elsewhere. So I appreciate your advice and will do so.
You say you are a writer. Is editing still considered part of the writing process? Please review Grice's maxims or cooperative principles. That's a great place to start.

Print is flat; no facial expressions or intonations to illuminate intentions. That said and understood, your last post still comes across to this reader as preachy and better-than.

Good luck with your fall recruitment, if you should decide to try again. And remember that recruitment is a mutual selection process, so every GLO is looking carefully at the pool of PNMs as well.
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  #35  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:00 PM
crescent&pearls crescent&pearls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2013 View Post

I had a whole moral dilemma with declining that bid, which you are free to PM me about or check out my recruitment thread. But I would have declined a bid at any house where conversation was forced and stilted during pref.
This is such a mistake, no matter what school you go to, or how "competitive" the recruitment process is perceived to be.

Of course the conversation is stilted! In what other social situation will you be invited to a "party" where it's all women, dressed alike, greeting you by singing or cheering at the door, then pairing you up to have a serious conversation with one to three people you barely know intermittently interrupted by the reading of poems, singing, tossing flowers into fountains or lighting battery operated candles? It's awkward. So what? You're going to spend your whole life experiencing and overcoming a lifetime of awkward social situations but ultimately making friends and meeting career contacts, maybe even finding your true love. People make meaningful lasting connections by doing things together, not trying to impress each other with their social skills.

If you want to join, go through recruitment. If you get a bid, take it and make it the experience you want it to be. That's what the process is really all about!
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  #36  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:16 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2013 View Post
Anyhow...to clarify. Oh boy. I have every intention of rushing that small sorority that many of you have recommended to me in the fall, but as of now I am ineligible to rush because of formal recruitment rules.
OK, pussyfooting over. Since ellebud called a spade a spade I will too. Peggy Olson was obviously AXO, so who is the "small sorority many of us recommended"? SDT? All I saw was DTD Alum saying that it sounded the most like what you are saying you want. I don't think he outright "recommended" that you rush them after not getting the sorority you wanted in formal rush, turning down the bid you did get, thinking of starting a local sorority, finding out that someone on GC said something negative about locals, and abandoning that prospect.

As far as conversation being "forced and stilted" at pref, if you are as loquacious in real life as you are when posting, I question how the sorority member even had a chance to get a word in edgewise.

If you find SDT to be a good match, super for them, and super for you. But in the meantime, please zip it about how the Greek system has misplaced its values.
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  #37  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:34 PM
AnotherKD AnotherKD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
As far as conversation being "forced and stilted" at pref, if you are as loquacious in real life as you are when posting, I question how the sorority member even had a chance to get a word in edgewise.
I almost spit my coffee out at that!
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Last edited by AnotherKD; 04-04-2011 at 12:36 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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  #38  
Old 04-04-2011, 02:28 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
If you find SDT to be a good match, super for them, and super for you. But in the meantime, please zip it about how the Greek system has misplaced its values.
Especially if you truthfully are "biding your time until fall."

You're pretty much done for if anyone from those chapters sees this thread.
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  #39  
Old 04-04-2011, 02:42 PM
agzg agzg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzTheta View Post
You say you are a writer. Is editing still considered part of the writing process? Please review Grice's maxims or cooperative principles. That's a great place to start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
As far as conversation being "forced and stilted" at pref, if you are as loquacious in real life as you are when posting, I question how the sorority member even had a chance to get a word in edgewise.
I have to admit I haven't made it through a single one of the OP's posts. I've been reading what you all have quoted or addressed.

This OP has a major case of tl;dr.
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  #40  
Old 04-04-2011, 02:49 PM
DTD Alum DTD Alum is offline
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I actually went through and read your recruitment story, and am 99.99% sure I've identified Joan Holliday based on a special feature of their house that only they have (and, of course, am highly curious about the rest, you did a good job giving a lot of detail without giving any of them away). I actually can see how going from Joan to Peggy would be a bit of a disappointment, not solely because of status. Despite what you are saying in your recruitment story, Joan is a chapter that a ton of people want, and in recent years they have even stolen several PNMs from the previous "top" chapters. Not only that but they are spunky and down to earth overall. So I can see how Peggy may have paled in comparison. But ironically, this is also a chapter that sometimes gets criticism for social climbing and partying, so if this is truly how you feel about the row, maybe it's best you didn't get them.

That being said, every chapter at USC is going to have some ambitions about partying and social climbing. Not to mention that most chapters are well over 200, it is impossible to have the true, close ideal of sisterhood. There are simply too many girls. When I was there, most of my friends said you bond with your pledge class, and maybe your big/little's friends if you are close with them. But it's not going to be the same type of bond that exists in a 20 person sorority (which will still have cliques).

If these ideals are really want you want 100%, no chapter at USC (and very few in the USA) will fit the bill. These are chapters filled with 18-22 year olds, hardly the most mature age. There will be girls who only show up to the socials, girls that roll their eyes during ritual, girls that shirk responsibility and openly talk badly about their sisters. Not that there won't be fantastic girls as well that uphold the sorority's values, but the way you've spoken about ideals will just lead to disappointment. This is true even in a colony situation.

Of course, if you take a long deep look and realize that maybe the ideals are because of being burned/bitter, then obviously check into rush/COB next year, but just know that most juniors will get released almost immediately from everybody but Peggy. The juniors that receive bids to other houses are generally those that would have had their full choice of houses if they had rushed as a freshman or sophomore, and tend to be transfers (OR they have insanely close friends in the sorority already).
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  #41  
Old 04-04-2011, 02:51 PM
KXEM KXEM is offline
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OP, why don't you just get involved in student government or any other areas (review boards etc) that would allow you to voice your opinion and concern about greeks on campus? it doesn't do much good to come to a message board and air it all out.

also ditto to what the others said about pref conversations. i pretty much suck at talking to people i don't know, its awkward, especially when you get to that point in recruitment and you're constantly being told that the "fluff" convo's aren't allowed anymore. but those awkward uncomfortable situations don't mean the chapter as a whole isn't a good fit, i can almost guarantee that in every chapter there's someone who sucks at talking to people.

if you go around your whole life with a negative attitude toward things you're going to miss out on a lot of awesome opportunities. now i don't know much about USC or its greek life but most of what you say seems to be conjecture, yea i know they've been in trouble recently and blahblahblahblah, but i'm sure they do other things that are positive. it's just hard to take what you say seriously because you aren't a part of greek life, you are an outside observer, (this has been said before) so you really can't speak for member's values etc. also worthy of noting is that these people are young, they make mistakes, who says that once they are done they won't be more like your ideal greeks? i don't think going out and partying is so much a "greek" thing as it is a "young" thing, i think it's probably amplified by greek life activities and is therefore more noticeable in this case.

in closing, nobody is perfect, and it's unreasonable to assume they ever will be.
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  #42  
Old 04-04-2011, 06:01 PM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTD Alum View Post
(a whole bunch of reasonable shit)
I just want to tell you that I appreciate your mature perspective, while the rest of us are just bitching at the OP. That's all.

Also, you can have "close sisterhood" in a larger chapter, it just means something different than it would in a smaller chapter. There are women I was never friends with in college who I am close with as an alumna, and there are women I would never choose to spend time with, but I'd still give the shirt off my back.
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  #43  
Old 04-04-2011, 06:14 PM
ellebud ellebud is offline
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I believe that USC has begun (as of this year) two "free" juniors. That being said, there are lots of transfers, so be advised.

And I have to say that I am very good friends today with women that I really never got to know in my house. Other girls that I thought that I would be friends with...haven't seen them in years.
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  #44  
Old 04-04-2011, 07:21 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I just love the fact that we got to see a boy using girly rush story code names.

Also that I learned two brand-new terms (tl; dr and Grice's maxims).
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  #45  
Old 04-04-2011, 08:59 PM
Barbie's_Rush Barbie's_Rush is offline
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Nothing like a non-Greek lecturing Greeks on the meaning of being Greek. *sigh* I really thought you showed a lot of maturity and thoughtfulness when you wrote about your recruitment experience. Now I can see where you’re really coming from and it isn’t pretty.

You were a sophomore when you rushed after a year of observing what Greek life was all about at USC. You had an entire year to evaluate it and you still went through recruitment because you wanted to join. Sisters didn’t just start walking down the row in miniskirts. They didn’t just start having philanthropy events that don’t meet your exacting expectations. They didn’t just start being interested in having the best social life, looking good and hanging out with the hottest guys. You knew that going into recruitment. You wanted that.

How dare you have the audacity to tell sorority members that their behavior doesn’t represent the ideals of their organizations and that they don’t have a “true” sisterhood? You are not privy to any group’s inner workings. You do not know anything about secrets, rituals and anything else that happens inside the chapters. You’re not there when an entire group of sisters stays up all night to comfort a girl through a nasty breakup. You’re not there to support the sister who just lost her father to cancer. You’re not there to make the late night run for frozen yogurt because you’ve all been studying until your brains are about to seep out of your ears and yogurt is the only antidote. How dare you presume anything about anyone’s sisterhood? You know nothing.

You had a chance to be Greek and make a difference from the inside out. You were offered a bid to the struggling chapter and chose not to accept it. You are actually part of the problem.

You don’t really want to start a local. What you really want is to start an interest group with the expectation that some magical NPC group will come in and scoop you up and give you some kind of shiny new start and eliminate the stigma that you feel you’d have as a member of those struggling groups. Christ on a cracker with cream cheese on top, you’re even looking at potential groups. Do you really think an NPC group is going to come in and spend millions of dollars and man hours to establish a chapter on a campus like yours simply because you perceive yourself to be somehow more virtuous than those awful sorority girls you sought to join just a few months ago? Good luck with that.
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