What went wrong?

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Sphinxie

Saw this, and I had a question. I posted about my daughter, who dropped out of rush under similar circumstances and then came back older and wiser, having regretted it.

If RFM says that the heaviest cuts are the first invitational party, so sororities should drop girls they have no intention of pledging at that point, why were both this girl and my daughter kept through several invitational parties, only to be dropped by most right on pref night?

My daughter got invited to 8 parties (the max allowed) the first invitational day, 6 parties (the max allowed) the second invitational day, including one chapter considered "top" at that school. So she felt like she could get into that chapter or, at least, she had a good cushion of solidly mid-tier houses. I assume if she had horrible social media or a bad reputation, she'd have been dropped earlier than that. But then, BOOM! On pref night, when she was feeling safe, she got dropped by all but her last two choices. They didn't tell her until RIGHT before the parties, so she cried and messed up her makeup (She's fair, so crying gets her really blotchy), and even though she did like one of the chapters that invited her back, she didn't want to go as a red-faced mess, which is why she dropped out. No one wants to walk into pref, looking like they have been crying hysterically about their parties. If she'd had any advance warning, such as if some of those 4 sororities had dropped her earlier OR if they'd at least told her her invitations more than a few minutes before the parties, she probably wouldn't have dropped.

So my question is, if the heavy cuts are supposed to come on Day 3 (or 2 if it's a school with fewer chapters), why did they come on pref night for both my daughter and this girl?

It did occur to my daughter that a couple of girls in one house must not have liked her as much as she thought they did, but again, wouldn't they know that the first or second day?

Fwiw, Mountainmama, I get why you were shocked and upset. When you have a clear head, you might want to try to join the sorority that did invite you back, either through COB if that's allowed or next year. My daughter did so, and she is very happy.

A stated by others in this thread, we cannot know what happened and will not guess just for the sake of giving answer. Accept what happened as your daughter's experience, and that she will be unable to understand recruitment from an initiated member's perspective because she rejected the opportunities she was given.

[Sororitysock]

Originally Posted by Sphinxie

Saw this, and I had a question. I posted about my daughter, who dropped out of rush under similar circumstances and then came back older and wiser, having regretted it. If RFM says that the heaviest cuts are the first invitational party, so sororities should drop girls they have no intention of pledging at that point, why were both this girl and my daughter kept through several invitational parties, only to be dropped by most right on pref night?

My daughter got invited to 8 parties (the max allowed) the first invitational day, 6 parties (the max allowed) the second invitational day, including one chapter considered "top" at that school. So she felt like she could get into that chapter or, at least, she had a good cushion of solidly mid-tier houses. I assume if she had horrible social media or a bad reputation, she'd have been dropped earlier than that. But then, BOOM! On pref night, when she was feeling safe, she got dropped by all but her last two choices. They didn't tell her until RIGHT before the parties, so she cried and messed up her makeup (She's fair, so crying gets her really blotchy), and even though she did like one of the chapters that invited her back, she didn't want to go as a red-faced mess, which is why she dropped out. No one wants to walk into pref, looking like they have been crying hysterically about their parties. If she'd had any advance warning, such as if some of those 4 sororities had dropped her earlier OR if they'd at least told her her invitations more than a few minutes before the parties, she probably wouldn't have dropped.

So my question is, if the heavy cuts are supposed to come on Day 3 (or 2 if it's a school with fewer chapters), why did they come on pref night for both my daughter and this girl? It did occur to my daughter that a couple of girls in one house must not have liked her as much as she thought they did, but again, wouldn't they know that the first or second day?

Fwiw, Mountainmama, I get why you were shocked and upset. When you have a clear head, you might want to try to join the sorority that did invite you back, either through COB if that's allowed or next year. My daughter did so, and she is very happy.

You don't understand how RFM works. The number of PNMs are whittled down until preference, where every single one of the invited PNMs is someone the sisters would be happy giving a bid to.

Even if the heaviest percentage cuts were made first, or second or third round (they aren't - cuts are based on return rates that vary by chapter), PNMs must be cut each round. Presumably, the chapter gets to know the PNMs better with each round and cuts those who they see as less of a better fit for the chapter. PNMs are presumably doing the same thing each round, which is where mutual selection comes in.

All PNMs are not equal. You can't game the system. It's an absurd new sport that seems to be the snow plow mom game of this recruitment season.

As for when PNMs are informed of their invite list, it varies by school and will never be "long enough" when you're the one facing disappointment. This may be your child's first disappointment, but there will be many to come in her lifetime. Protecting our children from every single disappointment and speed bump in life only magnifies the difficulty they will experience in their lifetime.

[Sphinxie]

Originally Posted by Sororitysock

This may be your child's first disappointment, but there will be many to come in her lifetime. Protecting our children from every single disappointment and speed bump in life only magnifies the difficulty they will experience in their lifetime.

You don't know me, and you really don't know my daughter, so please don't act like you do. First of all, this was hardly my daughter's "first disappointment" (Theater kid who has experienced rejection after rejection, thanks) and, as I stated, I'm writing about something that happened over a year ago, and she's now pledged and is happy. So I was legitimately just curious how it works, not trying to "protect our children from every single disappointment and speed bump in life." If I'd wanted to do that, I'd likely have discouraged her from rushing at all. As it was, I actually encouraged her to go back this year, as a junior, when I knew she'd get very few invitations back, to try again. I was proud of her that she did.

So, again, thanks for the life advice, but I was really JUST CURIOUS. And yes, you're right. I don't know how it works. That's why I ASKED. Is asking questions discouraged around here? I kind of thought that was the point of a message board.

Also, not trying to "game the system." She pledged.

[Sphinxie]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

A stated by others in this thread, we cannot know what happened and will not guess just for the sake of giving answer. Accept what happened as your daughter's experience, and that she will be unable to understand recruitment from an initiated member's perspective because she rejected the opportunities she was given.

No. The OP, Mountainmama, will be unable to understand recruitment from an initiated member's perspective because she rejected the opportunities she was given. As I mentioned in my post, my daughter went back a second year and pledged the sorority.

Also, I was a sorority member before the new rush rules, and I was curious about them. Frankly, they would have really benefited my chapter back in the 80s, if they'd existed then. I was in the first pledge class of a sorority that had just colonized the semester before, and though we were solidly mid-tier with many campus leaders, we were never QUITE able to catch up with the older groups. I was rush chair my senior year and got us our biggest pledge class ever (doubling the size of our chapter), but it still wasn't quite enough, and we ended up closing a few years after I graduated. Always made me sad. So I am envious when I see the mid- and even low-tier chapters at my daughter's school that, nonetheless, have huge memberships. I wish we'd rushed like this back then.

So I was curious how it worked and if my daughter's experience was typical. Thanks, though.

[Sphinxie]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

It's a numbers game as much as it is anything else. Chapters have different thresholds for invitations. Chapter A might have to cut 80% of PNMs, while chapter B might only have to cut 20%. Ordinarily chapters will invite back girls that fit what the chapter is looking for in a new member, even if it is only on paper. They will try to give a girl who might not have made a strong impression in the first round, or second, or third, depending on the number of invitations they have to dole out, another chance to live up to her recommendation and resume'. If she can't mesh with the rushers, if she doesn't stand out in a good way, if she doesn't live up to the rec, she will be dropped for someone who does. Taking a PNM up to pref round, the sorority was trying to give her every opportunity to shine. If she was not invited back to that chapter, they ultimately decided she would shine brighter elsewhere. Why that was decided, we will never know.

Thanks. This was helpful.

[Sororitysock]

Originally Posted by Sphinxie

You don't know me, and you really don't know my daughter, so please don't act like you do. First of all, this was hardly my daughter's "first disappointment" (Theater kid who has experienced rejection after rejection, thanks) and, as I stated, I'm writing about something that happened over a year ago, and she's now pledged and is happy. So I was legitimately just curious how it works, not trying to "protect our children from every single disappointment and speed bump in life." If I'd wanted to do that, I'd likely have discouraged her from rushing at all. As it was, I actually encouraged her to go back this year, as a junior, when I knew she'd get very few invitations back, to try again. I was proud of her that she did.

So, again, thanks for the life advice, but I was really JUST CURIOUS. And yes, you're right. I don't know how it works. That's why I ASKED. Is asking questions discouraged around here? I kind of thought that was the point of a message board.

Also, not trying to "game the system." She pledged.

Touchy touchy. I did not say this was about your daughter, simply a trend many of us have noticed this year, trying to assign objective probabilities to subjective data. Yet somehow I hit a nerve.

Your daughter quit her first recruitment in a snit because the "top tier" sorority made the horrible mistake of inviting her to an extra round to get an opportunity to know her better before they passed. She bravely went through recruitment again as a junior and accepted a bid to one of the "lower tier" chapters that had invited her to preference her first time around. I'm glad she matured in those years in spite of having a mother who still seems hung up on tiers.

Originally Posted by Sphinxie

If RFM says thiat the heaviest cuts are the first invitational party, so sororities should drop girls they have no intention of pledging at that point, why were both this girl and my daughter kept through several invitational parties, only to be dropped by most right on pref night?

My daughter got invited to 8 parties (the max allowed) the first invitational day, 6 parties (the max allowed) the second invitational day, including one chapter considered "top" at that school. So she felt like she could get into that chapter or, at least, she had a good cushion of solidly mid-tier houses. I assume if she had horrible social media or a bad reputation, she'd have been dropped earlier than that. But then, BOOM! On pref night, when she was feeling safe, she got dropped by all but her last two choices.

Perhaps if you'd stayed active in your sorority since the 80s, you'd understand how things work today.

[Sphinxie]

Yes, perhaps. However, my sorority was a small national that closed at my university a few years after I graduated, so there aren't a lot of local alums. It's sad, but I've made my peace with it and have volunteered with other organizations such as the Junior League and have had a career. Apparently it is not acceptable to come here to ask a question when my own daughter pledged without being scolded, so I'll leave you to it. You don't seem like you have much else going on.

P.S. I posted in a thread (as you know because you're stalking my posts) that was literally about whether to pledge a lower-tier sorority, and I said yes, you should do it. So I really don't know how that makes me obsessed with tiers, or how I should have answered that question without mentioning tiers.

[33girl]

Was she the only girl they told right before pref where her parties were (or were they were not) or is that just how the timing worked? Your post makes it sound like the former, but I’m guessing it’s the latter. I agree that the timing was unfortunate, but for her to forfeit a whole year of sorority membership because she looked blotchy was a mistake on her part. I’m sure there were sorority members in those parties she was going to walk into who had ALSO been crying because a girl they thought was going to be their sister dropped their chapter. They had to shake it off and go on.

[Titchou]

All the sorority members here belong to groups which have great top notch chapters and some that aren't so much. But we love them all. Any time someone comes here and posts about tiers, my eyes glaze over and I tune out....that is such a demeaning phrase and insulting to us and to your own organization. What hubris!

[Sphinxie]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Was she the only girl they told right before pref where her parties were (or were they were not) or is that just how the timing worked? Your post makes it sound like the former, but I’m guessing it’s the latter. I agree that the timing was unfortunate, but for her to forfeit a whole year of sorority membership because she looked blotchy was a mistake on her part. I’m sure there were sorority members in those parties she was going to walk into who had ALSO been crying because a girl they thought was going to be their sister dropped their chapter. They had to shake it off and go on.

Probably a little of both. She did mention her Rho Gamma was a little disorganized (waiting until a time when she’d actually be ON campus before telling her she needed to get there later). But I’m sure others were disorganized too.

Tbh I wasn’t actually complaining about this. It’s in the past, and my daughter has pledged and is happy with her chapter. I just thought people were a little hard on the OP, so I was saying I could see how a girl, in the moment, might not feel in a party mood but might eventually get past it and want to try again, as my daughter did. That was why I posted, to tell her to think it over. That was the advice my daughter needed and it helped her. Yes she was immature as is the OP. College is for maturing as much as anything else.

[Sphinxie]

Originally Posted by Titchou

All the sorority members here belong to groups which have great top notch chapters and some that aren't so much. But we love them all. Any time someone comes here and posts about tiers, my eyes glaze over and I tune out....that is such a demeaning phrase and insulting to us and to your own organization. What hubris!

I’m well aware. I was in a very medium chapter for my national. The next closest geographically was the top chapter at the school. We knew we weren’t like them.

Unfortunately in these days of Greek Rank, it seems like it’s much harder to get past reputation. The fact that the bigger chapters are encouraged to cut helps, I’m sure. I wish we’d had that in my day! However, back then, talk was just talk, and once you got the girls to your party, you could show them that your chapter was special. We got girls that “better” houses wanted sometimes. Now, girls have to worry about people posting online for all (including people who don’t attend their school) to see about how awful their sorority is. It does seem daunting. It does require a certain amount of resolve.

[GoldenAnchor]

Honestly, GR only seems to impact a very small fraction of campuses and very few people still take it seriously. In my experience the actives on the campuses I’ve been at don’t even know what it is, or if they do they recognize how stupid it is and laugh at it. If you read my Alma Mater’s GR page you’d think every chapter hated each other, but in reality it’s an incredibly tight knit community. PNM’s might be swayed slightly by social media, but it’s more often by a chapter’s instagram and tumblr aesthetic. Talk is still just talk, and plenty of chapters can and do show PNM’s what makes them special during recruitment.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by Sphinxie

If RFM says that the heaviest cuts are the first invitational party, so sororities should drop girls they have no intention of pledging at that point, why were both this girl and my daughter kept through several invitational parties, only to be dropped by most right on pref night?

Short answer is that the sororities are still releasing (not cut - release) PNMs as the rounds go on, still trying to get to know the PNMs and how they would or would not fit into the group.

As for dropping out at that point because she had a blotchy face from crying? That was too bad. She should have dried her tears and gone anyway. But...all's well that ends well.

[Sphinxie]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

Short answer is that the sororities are still releasing (not cut - release) PNMs as the rounds go on, still trying to get to know the PNMs and how they would or would not fit into the group.

As for dropping out at that point because she had a blotchy face from crying? That was too bad. She should have dried her tears and gone anyway. But...all's well that ends well.

For sure! Who wants to rush twice to join the same house? And I tried to talk her into it at the time. But, in her defense, she’s very fair with blue eyes, and she legit looks like she has a disease when she cries, and she’s very picky about appearance. So when she said, “I can’t. I look awful,” I knew it was hopeless. At least she realized her mistake.

[anongreek]

Man, some of the comments on here, especially the ones towards Sphinxie are brutal. Let's not attack or assume things about one another. It's one thing to offer sound advice and offer constructive criticism, but it is another to just come at the throat of others and be unkind. None of us in particular know how the numbers work, but I also cant blame people for being curious. It is quite fascinating to think about how they arrive at their selections.

On another note, I do agree that the OP should have given the sorority a chance. I hope she will consider rushing again, or going through COB.

GreekRank is a terrible website. I wish they would take it down. It skews the view of so many different greek orgs. A lot of the comments on there, in my opinion, seem to be from disgruntled people who were dropped by that house during rush, people who actually have no tie to the sorority at all, or disgruntled exes who hate "XYZ" because their ex was one. Haha. Not very reliable reviews or accurate descriptions of how life in that greek org actually are. But I hate it! I actually know girls that chose to drop out of recruitment bc they saw that the last few houses they were invited to didn't have a good review on GreekRank. Crazy, I know. But, I definitely don't think it does the Greek community any favors that is for sure. However, if you base your entire decision, or even part of your decision of which house to run to on Bid Day off of the ranking on GreekRank...well, perhaps it wasn't in your best interest to join in the first place. I mean, almost every comment ON GreekRank is negative.

I hope OP chooses to go back through! Don't give up so easily OP Take it as a honor that a sorority wanted to have you as a sister. Go for it! You never know what might happen. Not every sorority "sells" themselves super well through recruitment. They could have been nervous, new, etc. A lot of the time it's as nerve-wracking on both ends! Give them a fair chance and see what happens! It may be the best thing you ever did!

What does it matter if a sorority is considered a "high tier" or "low tier" sorority, when you are considering joining? It's all about the individual bonds of sisterhood and forever friendships that are formed, and where you feel you fit. Who cares what is considered high, middle or low tier if you love the org you are a part of? In my opinion, these "ranks" are stereotypes that other people have placed on them, and have nothing to do with the actual members, experience, sisterhood, or climate of the org. They are just hurtful to the members, and turn PNMs away. Form your own opinion!

Best of luck!