Happily hazed?

[WhiteRose1912]

One of my students, S, is pledging an NPHC organization. S said some things to me that made me believe some hazing activities might be taking place. I have been assured that this is not necessarily the case and pursuing it in any way would do more harm than good. Now I'm going back to my happy little NPC corner where we clutch our pearls at scavenger hunts. The end!

[KDCat]

What are your professional responsibilities? Does your employer have an anti-hazing policy? Do they have a policy for what you should do if you know of hazing on campus?

If something goes wrong and you knew about any hazing and you didn't do what was necessary to enforce the campus policy, how is your employer going to view that? How are that kid's parents going to view that?

Do you know that this hazing, though? Learning founders and other things doesn't really sound like hazing. (NPC has a very restrictive view and bans anything that could remotely be considered hazing.)

[WhiteRose1912]

[DrPhil]

Your student is a big mouthed snitch. People like this are one reason why some NPHC chapters stopped doing anything that can be misconstrued as "pledging" and, to the extreme, hazing.

You shouldn't do anything and I don't know why you would want to do anything. Your big mouthed snitch student's chapter is finding a way to teach what needs to be taught. You simply assumed the worst based on NPC (and GC) standards. Another reason your big mouthed snitch student should've never confided in an outsider.

I wish this thread was not created and could be strongly edited or deleted:
(1) It is based on non-NPHC assumptions and standards
(2) Based on this information it isn't difficult to identify this NPHC sorority's collegiate chapter and alumnae chapter
(3) You can get a collegiate chapter, alumnae chapter, and student (who, regardless of anything the student has told you, has an unknown membership status) in trouble for NO REASON

tldr: Mind your own business and edit your posts.

/No disrespect to WhiteRose1912

[amIblue?]

I'd keep my mouth shut unless I knew without a doubt that serious injury or harm was in the works. Nothing you have mentioned sounds horrible, and it could be that some alums are pulling the legs of younger more gullible members. You said yourself that a campus employee who is a member has been involved with the chapter and that s/he has an interest in preserving the chapter.

[StealthMode]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Your big mouthed snitch student's chapter is finding a way to teach what needs to be taught.

To be fair, Soror, we don't know that the situation is as innocuous and simple as this. However, I agree the fact that we know ANYTHING is concerning.

That being said, I agree with amiblue. If you are not absolutely certain that S is implying they will be undergoing activities that could lead to serious injury, then leave it be. The term "hazing" has a horribly negative connotation but, by its strict definition, it includes a lot of innocent activities. Unless you have concrete reason to suspect harm will come to these girls, the decision to investigate or sanction a chapter lies with the org and is honestly no one else's business.

Lastly, this has to be said: Strolls, chants, and songs are fun but have nothing to do with making a good lifetime member. If S thinks learning how to stroll (and similar activities) makes for a "more acceptable" process, she needs to ask herself why she's there.

[tld221]

I agree with StealthMode - while the student really should've considered discretion, she is an undergraduate. On a very short-term, local level, I do not blame the student for thinking those things ARE essential, especially if the chapter and Greek culture at her school puts a lot of emphasis on those things.

It never occurred to me that a neophyte presentation was an "essential" part to being Greek, but best believe I've met my share of Greeks who think it's odd at best and suspect at worst my line didn't have one. It's not a huge thing here but elsewhere, it's absolutely a must (socially speaking, anyway).

So again, I can see how this student, even though she talked too much, felt like these things were necessary, especially if it's presented as such.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by StealthMode

To be fair, Soror, we don't know that the situation is as innocuous and simple as this.

Which is why this should be handled without Greekchat and WhiteRose's intervention.

I agree the fact we know ANYTHING is concerning.

[StealthMode]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Which is why this should be handled without Greekchat and WhiteRose's intervention.

Touché.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by tld221

I agree with StealthMode - while the student really should've considered discretion, she is an undergraduate. On a very short-term, local level, I do not blame the student for thinking those things ARE essential, especially if the chapter and Greek culture at her school puts a lot of emphasis on those things.

It never occurred to me that a neophyte presentation was an "essential" part to being Greek, but best believe I've met my share of Greeks who think it's odd at best and suspect at worst my line didn't have one. It's not a huge thing here but elsewhere, it's absolutely a must (socially speaking, anyway).

So again, I can see how this student, even though she talked too much, felt like these things were necessary, especially if it's presented as such.

I hear you but we NPHCers can discuss that until we are crimson () in the face and non-NPHCers aren't a central part of that discussion. Non-NPHCers are especially not a central part of that discussion if non-NPHCers will make assumptions that could possibly result in a chapter getting in trouble.

This thread is really not about traditions and what makes a "real XYZ" . This thread is about assuming a chapter is involved in unsafe, banned, and illegal activities; and assuming that a student who is anxious to learn certain traditions outside of an official timeline is "happily hazed".

[WhiteRose1912]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

/No disrespect to WhiteRose1912

My campus has had a couple violent hazing issues in my time as an undergrad, and I don't want to see the same thing happen to S. The conversation set off some alarm bells. BUT, like I said, I'm aware that this is a different culture--which is why I asked for some advice from uninvolved NPHCers. If I really think about it, I do not feel like S is in danger. I will happily go back to MMOB and I will trim down my posts.

Thanks guys!

[DrPhil]

(((Hugs, WhiteRose1912)))

You are a wonderful person and were well-intentioned. Thanks!!

Oh and that cat is creepy. LOL.

I am not saying to completely turn a blind eye. I am saying to err on the side of caution when a student has diarrhea of the mouth (which college students tend to have when talking TO and ABOUT faculty and staff) and you aren't quite sure of the "goings on". Sometimes it can suffice to keep some contact with students and remind students to be safe and seek help (not necessarily from you) if something happens that the student finds too compromising (that is extremely subjective and doesn't automatically constitute "pledging" and hazing). The student (and GLO) will have to figure it out from there.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I hear you but we NPHCers can discuss that until we are crimson () in the face and non-NPHCers aren't a central part of that discussion. Non-NPHCers are especially not a central part of that discussion if non-NPHCers will make assumptions that could possibly result in a chapter getting in trouble.

This thread is really not about traditions and what makes a "real XYZ" . This thread is about assuming a chapter is involved in unsafe, banned, and illegal activities; and assuming that a student who is anxious to learn certain traditions outside of an official timeline is "happily hazed".

You sure not blue in the face?

I hear you, I was going on a slight tangent. I think most people, greek or not, hear students' concerns about pursuing membership and automatically jump to the worst conclusions. I can't compare NPC to NPHC re: hazing allegations but, like it was mentioned before, even a slight insinuation of foul play (hell, just play) is grounds to "suspend first, ask questions later."

I had a colleague (non-greek) who a student mentioned wanting to join a sorority, and then, as an explanation for the difference in her availability at work, said she was pursuing membership. As he mentioned it to me: "hey, did you know (Student) is pledging your sorority?" Now, I think to the average NPCer, no biggie. My response was jumping to the worst just by hearing "pledging" not realizing my colleague jumped to the worst by referring to it as pledging - "I dont know what you guys call it, I just figured that was the overall phrase. I hope she's going to be OK."

Again, didn't think much of it, but I DID give a heads-up on her discretion. Another seasoned member (or non-member) mightve set off all sorts of alarms with that one question. I happen to know a higher up at that college is a Soror and could've easily shut that chapter down with that conversation filler, even if "pledging" was just semantics and the word that came to him at the moment.

[DrPhil]

I love you and StealthMode's tangents. I just wish it wasn't in the hazing forum. LOL. Greekchat used to have tons of discussions about NPHC traditions and differing opinions of the necessity of some traditions.

Yeah your colleague and other inquisitive people could get a chapter investigated. Even a professor who reports a student's exhaustion during class time or reports a student's failure to submit assignments can get a chapter investigated. That could've been completely the student's choice to stay up late reading information on the GLO or to not submit assignments. Some NPHC chapters have made sure students keep up with school work and students get lots of sleep so these students don't incorrectly attribute certain things to membership intake and get the chapter in hot water.