Gamma Phi Beta University of North Dakota Punished for Showing School Pride

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Actually, I'm totally over the anti-Irish sentiment in the U.S. and the basic genocide perpetrated upon my people by England. My Germanic and Frankish ancestors are certainly over the servile conditions we lived under with serfdom. Life is good. It's water under the bridge.

I've been dreaming of the time when
The English are sick to death of Labour and Tories
And spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell
And denounce this royal line that still salutes him
And will salute him forever


Oh silly me, that song is ten whole years old. I guess everything is peachy now.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Where are the aggrieved Scandinavians?

Historically? Participating in the dislocation and marginalization of the people already here when they arrived.

But really, in case you missed it, in the case if the Minnesota Vikings, it was primarily Scandinavian people who gave the team that name; the name came from their own culture. Same thing for the Notre Dame Fighting Irish. Not the same thing with PWI's that use American Indian names for teams.

Originally Posted by Kevin

That said, I'm from Oklahoma. I'm surrounded by Native people. They aren't discriminated against at all. In fact, they get free food, healthcare and even stipend checks from their enormously profitable operations which operate behind "sovereign" governments that don't compete on a level playing field with our other businesses.

Perhaps one day you'll learn that your experience =/= universal experience.

Originally Posted by Kevin

And not one person alive to day is still being injured by that. I can't even say there was anything wrong with it.

Or maybe not.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Climates didn't necessarily change. We're talking about organized groups deeming things offensive. It's not as if all of the Sioux Tribes got together and had some sort of discussion and decided they all should condemn this name. Nope. Just a few "concerned citizens" and years and years of tradition are out the window.

Actually, a number of tribes did do just that. And I guess you missed it that the question was actually put up to popular vote in North Dakota. The voters of that state voted 2-1 to retire the name "Fighting Sioux."

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by thetalady

Technically, nothing! That is the whole point and a MAJOR reason why so many alum hate the STOOPY bear Maybe if they had picked something that was native to Mississippi, we wouldn't have been so pissed off.

Bwahahaha. Would y'all have preferred the dude in the blue body suit? what did they call him? The Rebel Thing or something like that?

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Climates didn't necessarily change. We're talking about organized groups deeming things offensive. It's not as if all of the Sioux Tribes got together and had some sort of discussion and decided they all should condemn this name. Nope. Just a few "concerned citizens" and years and years of tradition are out the window.

You are aware that there are Lakota, Dakota and Yanktoni Sioux in ND who have weighed in on this, aren't you? If the Standing Rock Sioux tribal council approved the use of the UND Sioux mascot, the NCAA would have granted UND a waiver. They didn't. Clearly the Standing Rock Sioux don't like it.

When a group of people say "We don't like the way you are using our name" then the polite thing to do is to stop.

The voters of ND agree. UND's mascot was subject to a ballot initiative. The voters of North Dakota voted it out. It wasn't a few concerned citizens. It was a majority (67%) of voters.

I don't like the way Notre Dame uses the Fighting Irish, but it's not really the same. Irish Americans don't have the poverty rates and general dispossession that Native Americans have faced. Irish Americans are currently integrated as fully white and enjoy the privileges that go with being white in America. Meanwhile, Pine Ridge is the poorest place in the US. It's just not the same.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KDCat

I don't like the way Notre Dame uses the Fighting Irish, but it's not really the same. Irish Americans don't have the poverty rates and general dispossession that Native Americans have faced. It's just not the same.

Like MC said, the Irish themselves created that as a big F.U. to everyone. THAT'S why it's ok. It's not ok because the Irish were less oppressed. I'm sure there are still Irish people who even knowing that don't like it.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

OMG. I promise I have never heard tell of the Ole Miss Bear??? I've always known them to be the Ole Miss Rebels. I know "Colonel Reb" has been swept under the table, but didn't know about the bear coming in.

This is coming from someone who's niece almost went to Ole Miss, and I write a handful of recs every year for girls going there??? Wow.

Wikipedia is not usually my "go to " source, but this is not a bad discussion of the time line, along with a picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Black_Bear

IrishLake, for some Ole Miss alumni, it may be even WORSE that the bear is also from SOUTHERN Mississippi!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Like MC said, the Irish themselves created that as a big F.U. to everyone. THAT'S why it's ok.

Right. It's one thing if schools and student bodies choose a nickname and mascot that reflects their own heritage—say, the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame; the Fighting Scots of Edinboro U, Monmouth College or the College of Wooster; or the Terrible Swedes of Bethany College. It's another thing when they appropriate someone else's heritage—especially when they've already appropriated just about everything else once belonging to that particular someone else.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Bwahahaha. Would y'all have preferred the dude in the blue body suit? what did they call him? The Rebel Thing or something like that?

I never saw a picture of what the blues muscian character was supposed to be. Not sure that he got that far. It was probably better than the bizarre Admiral Akbar thing!

[pinksequins]

Yes, Mystic Cat! Or self selection of the name Tar Heels, a designation that once was viewed as a pejorative term. : )

Unsurprisingly, you and KDCat distinguished the fact patterns and there is a meaningful difference. Thank you.

[pinksequins]

And I think the Frackers has a lot of potential!

[bevinpiphi]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Like MC said, the Irish themselves created that as a big F.U. to everyone. THAT'S why it's ok. It's not ok because the Irish were less oppressed. I'm sure there are still Irish people who even knowing that don't like it.

Count my Irish Catholic relatives among those...they hate the mascot.

[amIblue?]

Did I read the article correctly that the school hasn't chosen a new mascot? I'm not questioning the decision to remove the Sioux as the schools mascot, but I don't understand why the banner that I saw merits sensitivity training. They used to have a mascot. It was deemed offensive and removed. If I read that correctly, they are now mascot-less. I don't see how mentioning that the mascot is gone, but they're still proud of their team is lacking in sensitivity. It did happen.

I don't disagree with the decision to remove the mascot, or any similar cultural appropriation. I just don't understand why this particular banner was so bad. What am I missing?

[SoCalGirl]

Originally Posted by DaffyKD

Slight lane swerve, but will someone tell this old lady what in the world is "double-secret" probation?

DaffyKD

Animal House reference.

[IndianaSigKap]

There is a Christian school near me whose mascot is Warriors, but they don't use it in the Native American sense. Theirs is the biblical sense, I think they may use a gladiator type helmet as their visual logo...not sure on that one.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by thetalady

Wikipedia is not usually my "go to " source, but this is not a bad discussion of the time line, along with a picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Black_Bear

IrishLake, for some Ole Miss alumni, it may be even WORSE that the bear is also from SOUTHERN Mississippi!

But if the bear is named Rebel and the teams are still called the Rebels, doesn't that glorify the Confederacy just as much? I'm confused. Oh well, count yourselves lucky that it didn't change to something that was the domain name of a porn site.