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  #151  
Old 07-20-2010, 04:08 PM
Barbie's_Rush Barbie's_Rush is offline
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Those facebook comments are just a sampling of the things we deal with each year.
  #152  
Old 07-20-2010, 04:25 PM
agzg agzg is offline
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I'm not gonna lie, I loved Betty the mom and I cried a little bit with the woodland violets and all that.

You know, but in a completely professional way, as I'm at work.
  #153  
Old 07-20-2010, 05:07 PM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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Originally Posted by Drolefille View Post
I just do NOT get this. Maybe it's because I'm not a mother, and that's a fair criticism. However, if my cousin rushes this fall and my sorority drops her despite my glowing letter of recommendation, I'm not going to feel betrayed as I would if my best friend said something cruel about me.
There ya go. When it's your daughter, it's totally different from any other relative. It's hard to explain the depth of the feeling...even when you're prepared, it's difficult.

My chapter was no longer at daughter's school (would could have been a blessing - whst if she didn't like them?!?)...I couldn't believe how jealous I felt at seeing other mothers whose daughters pledged their sorority...that I would not get that experience of pinning my badge on my daughter at initiation. It defied logic.

However...I certainly don't condone chewing out a chapter because your feelings were hurt.

It's like trying to get the PNMs to keep an open mind. They're listening, but they don't really hear you.
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  #154  
Old 07-20-2010, 05:12 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Obviously, the old quota system has played into this: the one where quota was set after first or second parties that had some groups taking massive numbers and the others less than 10. Even as a collegian, I remarked to friends that it would result in huge numbers of legacies someday and it has.

Picture this scenario at bid matching: "Okay, ladies, we know that quota is 50 but since ABC has 200 legacies, they will be allowed to take them all. And DEF, you can have all 100 of yours."

The Greek system set itself up for this. It made a bunch of women really happy back in the day but now, we're reaping the worst of it.
  #155  
Old 07-20-2010, 05:15 PM
Barbie's_Rush Barbie's_Rush is offline
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I don't mean this to delve into ms territory and I also understand that things would vary with different groups, but was there ever a time in relatively recent history (eg: when the current moms and grams were in school) where a legacy was guaranteed a bid if she wanted it? I can't even imagine this ever being the case, even at schools with a non-competitive Greek life or in struggling chapters. Certainly there had to be room for cutting Sally Slorepants even if she was a quadruple legacy? But obviously these moms are getting this concept of a guaranteed bid from somewhere?
  #156  
Old 07-20-2010, 05:21 PM
agzg agzg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush View Post
I don't mean this to delve into ms territory and I also understand that things would vary with different groups, but was there ever a time in relatively recent history (eg: when the current moms and grams were in school) where a legacy was guaranteed a bid if she wanted it? I can't even imagine this ever being the case, even at schools with a non-competitive Greek life or in struggling chapters. Certainly there had to be room for cutting Sally Slorepants even if she was a quadruple legacy? But obviously these moms are getting this concept of a guaranteed bid from somewhere?
My guess would be that the mom's who do the over-dramatized, "I'm not paying for any sorority but ABC," "HOW DARE YOU CUT MY DAUGHTER!?!!" thing are probably either A. used to getting their way, so they think a bid is guaranteed, or B. completely self-centered and have a feeling of high entitlement, so they think a bid is guaranteed.

It's one thing to be a little hurt (or hurting, or let down, or whatever) if your daughter is cut by the chapter on her campus, or the chapter on your own campus, but I would guess that the cray cray mamas are in the minority. Of course, what do I know?
  #157  
Old 07-20-2010, 05:25 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush View Post
I don't mean this to delve into ms territory and I also understand that things would vary with different groups, but was there ever a time in relatively recent history (eg: when the current moms and grams were in school) where a legacy was guaranteed a bid if she wanted it? I can't even imagine this ever being the case, even at schools with a non-competitive Greek life or in struggling chapters. Certainly there had to be room for cutting Sally Slorepants even if she was a quadruple legacy? But obviously these moms are getting this concept of a guaranteed bid from somewhere?
in my experience, we had better had a very good reason and an equally good explanation for doing so. not so today.
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  #158  
Old 07-20-2010, 07:26 PM
AOII Angel AOII Angel is offline
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Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
in my experience, we had better had a very good reason and an equally good explanation for doing so. not so today.
This was my experience in the past. You had to have a really good reason to release a legacy. Of course, this in a lot of ways was local tradition more so than AOII rules.
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  #159  
Old 07-20-2010, 07:34 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Isn't the "more legacies than spots" thing only REALLY an issue at a handful of more competitive schools?

I find that at most other schools, 99% of the time, the only way a girl doesn't return to her legacy chapter is if SHE drops THEM.

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  #160  
Old 07-20-2010, 07:40 PM
ComradesTrue ComradesTrue is offline
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Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
Isn't the "more legacies than spots" thing only REALLY an issue at a handful of more competitive schools?

Probably more than a handful. You have the SEC, at least 6 of the Texas schools (UT, A&M, Tech, TCU, SMU, Baylor), and likely several of the Oklahoma schools (OU, OSU, ?Tulsa).

In addition, for groups that have lots of chapters in the southeast, those particular chapters may also be experiencing this even if the entire campus panhellenic is not considered competitive. Specifically I am thinking of Phi Mu, KD, ADPi and ZTA in Georgia and South Carolina.

From a personal note, when I was at TCU in the early 90s we typically had 15-20 legacies come through rush. Last year my chapter had 60+ legacies come through. Just more moms of the 80s and sisters of the 2000s I suppose. Quota was around 40-44 while I was there and is now 50-55.

Last edited by ComradesTrue; 07-20-2010 at 07:44 PM.
  #161  
Old 07-20-2010, 07:53 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Originally Posted by Blondie93 View Post

In addition, for groups that have lots of chapters in the southeast, those particular chapters may also be experiencing this even if the entire campus panhellenic is not considered competitive. Specifically I am thinking of Phi Mu, KD, ADPi and ZTA in Georgia and South Carolina.
Sure. I think even in other regions, there are certain chapters at different schools who will have more legacies than others. Ex: I think many of our single letter chapters get a lot of legacies coming through just because they are older (even though their particular Panhellenics are not competitive).

Also, depending on the school, you sometimes get more sister legacies than mom-daughter coming through. Partcularly sisters whose parents were non-Greek. Maybe it's regional.
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  #162  
Old 07-20-2010, 08:23 PM
ADqtPiMel ADqtPiMel is offline
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Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
Sure. I think even in other regions, there are certain chapters at different schools who will have more legacies than others. Ex: I think many of our single letter chapters get a lot of legacies coming through just because they are older (even though their particular Panhellenics are not competitive).
At Miami of Ohio (which is competitive but not, like, SEC competitive), my chapter usually had 20-25 legacies come through every year, whereas my sister's Theta chapter usually had more like 60-75 (quota usually in the 50s). So I do see some regional influence.

My mom, grandmother, great-grandmother and several aunts were all Thetas, and my mom was quite involved on a national level throughout my childhood. It was definitely expected that I wouldn't join any other sorority, and my mom never considered that they would cut me.

Theta did cut me right before pref -- they are a highly desirable chapter with a lot of legacies. My mom was totally devastated, though to her credit, she encouraged me to finish out recruitment and is very supportive of my membership in ADPi. She definitely backed off Theta involvement, though. She's just now starting advising again eight years later.

I don't have any kids, but I would have been really upset if ADPi had cut either of my younger sisters. (Luckily didn't happen...one went to pref at ADPi but ranked them second after Theta, and the other one called me after the first night of recruitment and said, "I know for certain that I want to be an ADPi.")
  #163  
Old 07-20-2010, 09:01 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel View Post

I don't have any kids, but I would have been really upset if ADPi had cut either of my younger sisters. (Luckily didn't happen...one went to pref at ADPi but ranked them second after Theta, and the other one called me after the first night of recruitment and said, "I know for certain that I want to be an ADPi.")
Yeah, oddly enough, most of the legacy backlash/anger stories I know of involve sister legacies (maybe we aren't old enough to know many moms with kids of that age yet).

There was a girl who was a senior and officer in a chapter. We all knew that this girl's sister was coming through. If you hung out with Big Ssiter, you kind of knew that she assumed sister would get a bid. Younger sister got cut the night before Pref, but ended up joining another chapter. The fallout from the decision to cut Younger Sister was such that Big Sister terminated her membership right after recruitment (after being active and an officer for 3 years).

Two years ago, another alumna friend of mine had a little sister coming through. She was cut by her legacy house after day 2. I know this because after I got home from helping out with recruitment, I saw "XYZ at KENT STATE can F*** OFF!!!" in her FB status and twitter timeline. Several times. Big Sister deleted everything XYZ from her FB after that too. Sister ended up pledging elsewhere, but not initiating.

I have to wonder how it feels to be in a different chapter, knowing that your relative is that upset about it.

Makes me wonder how many parents are TRUTHFULLY that supportivr when their daughters end up pledging elsewhere...
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Last edited by KSUViolet06; 07-20-2010 at 09:13 PM.
  #164  
Old 07-20-2010, 09:18 PM
gee_ess gee_ess is offline
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With regard to the pain felt by the moms, I think they are most hurt that by getting cut, the chapter is saying the group doesn't like their daughters. That is truly the bottom line to all this emotion.

All of these women have been through MS. In my opinion, that is why they react so strongly. They know what goes on, they have heard the things that are discussed, they know the reasons for cuts, etc. So, to imagine their daughters as the main subject of those events, is hard to swallow. They remember doing it to others...

Like someone earlier said, no matter how hard you try, when someone decides your child is not good enough to make the team, or doesn't get a part in the play, or get dumped the day before the prom, it is human nature to think, "What?!"

All of the posturing and threats and negativity is a result of the sickening feeling they have that deep down, despite all of Perfect Patty's attributes, it still wasn't enough to make them want her.

I read the ADPi Facebook stuff - wow. I hate it that social networking can feed the fire of this type reaction. In the old days, these comments took place over the phone to select people or in some social settings. Hurt alums threatened to turn in pins, and withdraw financial support but it rarely happened. Women soothed their friends, and people eventually got over it. Technology is not helping!
  #165  
Old 07-20-2010, 09:44 PM
violetpretty violetpretty is offline
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Originally Posted by gee_ess View Post
All of these women have been through MS. In my opinion, that is why they react so strongly. They know what goes on, they have heard the things that are discussed, they know the reasons for cuts, etc. So, to imagine their daughters as the main subject of those events, is hard to swallow. They remember doing it to others...
Many NPC groups are transitioning to new membership selection procedures (including Sigma Kappa and apparently Tri Delta) to eliminate the drama and all-nighters of old MS, to give members who personally know PNMs and members who spoke to the PNM the most power in decisions on a PNM, and focus on the group's values. I can explain "MS 2.0" to any Sigma Kappa, and I assume other NPCs are following suit, if they are not already using these procedures.

There's not necessarily a "reason" why a woman gets released, it could just that the chapter liked X number of women more than a particular PNM. It's not a just a matter of "membership selection is private info to the collegians of the chapter", it can be that even the collegians don't know the "reason" if there was one!
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Last edited by violetpretty; 07-20-2010 at 09:47 PM.
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