Overheard at Starbucks today....

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Do PNMS have the option of not notifying their legacy chapter and going through recruitment as a non-legacy?

Yes, they do. Whether or not all of the alumnae that they contact for recs will play along is another story.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Which is why she said...

… instead of saying that they're not needed at all

And haven't some NPCers said before that on some campuses, chapters basically take care of getting recs for all New Members, often with the New Members knowing nothing about it?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And haven't some NPCers said before that on some campuses, chapters basically take care of getting recs for all New Members, often with the New Members knowing nothing about it?

Yes, that happens.

[AZTheta]

MysticCat, I related that I had personal experience with that when I went through recruitment (rush) back in mumble mumble and I am aware of it continuing to happen on occasion. If a chapter seriously wants a PNM who does not have a rec, they know how to get one.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And haven't some NPCers said before that on some campuses, chapters basically take care of getting recs for all New Members, often with the New Members knowing nothing about it?

All of them? Hm.. I don't know that I've heard that. But for some PNMs? Yes. But there are definitely some campuses where they're rare (or not seen at all).

[DubaiSis]

Well, for every rushee they WANT.

No chapter, even the most SEC among them, would turn a girl away they really want for lack of a rec. It's the "do we or don't we" girl who's at issue. For those sororities that require recs, THOSE girls might be outta luck.

[Titchou]

Without giving specifics, let me assure you that groups that require a rec, in other words have to send the form or the name of the person signing it to HQ, there are ways to make that happen - even for a whole pledge class. I'm sure that they would be chastised for it but it can be made to happen.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Well, for every rushee they WANT.

No chapter, even the most SEC among them, would turn a girl away they really want for lack of a rec. It's the "do we or don't we" girl who's at issue. For those sororities that require recs, THOSE girls might be outta luck.

But for a rush that takes place before the women are even official class-taking freshmen and know no one, how can they know they "really want" a girl before that first cut?

[DubaiSis]

The same way a house can have a "dance party" instead of rushing the girls - they do their homework prior to rush. If I were a rushee today I certainly wouldn't want to rely on being THAT level of adored. But it can still happen. Miss Teen USA is rushing at Texas but didn't bother getting recs? I'm guessing the chapters can find an alum to write her a rec.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Well, for every rushee they WANT.

No chapter, even the most SEC among them, would turn a girl away they really want for lack of a rec. It's the "do we or don't we" girl who's at issue. For those sororities that require recs, THOSE girls might be outta luck.

Originally Posted by Titchou

Without giving specifics, let me assure you that groups that require a rec, in other words have to send the form or the name of the person signing it to HQ, there are ways to make that happen - even for a whole pledge class. I'm sure that they would be chastised for it but it can be made to happen.

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

The same way a house can have a "dance party" instead of rushing the girls - they do their homework prior to rush. If I were a rushee today I certainly wouldn't want to rely on being THAT level of adored. But it can still happen. Miss Teen USA is rushing at Texas but didn't bother getting recs? I'm guessing the chapters can find an alum to write her a rec.

And this is a time when people ask, "What's the point of recs?"

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

As for legacies, there are simply too many now. Heck, there are just too many PNMs in general. Too many PNMs + RFM = chapters wondering how they're going to cut so many PNMs = cutting PNMs who are legacies to other chapters. We've seen it happen. In some cases, it's detrimental to an open-minded legacy who wants to explore all of her options.

Doesn't that logic call in to question the other point I see here often, namely that if you can't find friends in a chapter of 300 or more, maybe sorority life isn't for you?

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

And this is a time when people ask, "What's the point of recs?"

That is the question of the day.

[Sciencewoman]

I've thought about this issue quite a bit over the years, because there is such a disparity between campus norms in the area of recs. It seems to me we have these scenarios:

1. Competitive campuses where PNMs need recs because they are the campus norm, regardless of each group's inter/national policy, and to not have them would be detrimental to continuing. They are a PNM's "stamp of approval" (exceptions made for Miss Teen USA, Olympic figure skaters, and other extremely rare snowflakes, in which case groups who require a rec per inter/national policy will find a willing aluma to write one, and other groups may well invite her back without one, and they won't need to have anyone ever fill one out behind the scenes).

2. Competitive campuses where some/many savvy PNMs may have recs, but it generally isn't a kiss of death is they don't; they are more useful as a "heads up" to the groups, and may give a PNM an advantage. Again, those groups who require one will get one, at some stage, via some means unknown to non-members.

3. Campuses where recs are rarely seen, PNMs are allowed to sign up for recruitment until almost the last minute, campuses where there there are high numbers of international students who likely have no sorority connections (I'm thinking about the MIT recruitment story I wrote this fall), etc. Recs are not the campus norm, but it sounds like groups who require them would still find an alumna to complete a rec??

I think an underlying question is: In the case of required recs at the inter/national level, is the rec's purpose primarily for membership selection, or is it more of an endorsement for membership by an alum (perhaps after the collegians have determined the PNM is someone they want). It's up to each sorority to privately discuss and determine how recs are used. I'd argue that there doesn't seem to be much validity in a rec done behind the scenes by an alumna who doesn't know the PNM.

Women who are most familiar with Scenario 1 recruitments seem to have a hard time believing that Scenarios 2 and 3 exist, and that no one is secretly securing recs behind the scenes for all of these rec-less women. After reading these posts over the years, I think I have determined a couple of NPC groups that do require a rec form for every PNM before she is extended a bid, but I think there are many more groups who don't, and lots of PNMs in Scenario 2 and 3 don't have them...ever.

[iamamom]

My daughter is not a special snowflake, not famous, not a pageant queen or whatever makes pnm's think they'll waltz in and get their 'dream' house.

She went oos to an SEC school. The places where she had the strongest reqs and letters of recommendation cut her the first night, and she ended up getting a bid to the sorority where her rec writers must not have understood how to get it to the right places first. They told her bid day they had to go get her recs for her.

If anyone heard her story they'd assume it would have made no difference whether she had recs or not. I'm certainly of that opinion now.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

And this is a time when people ask, "What's the point of recs?"

Why do businesses require references for prospective employees?