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  #46  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:02 AM
irishpipes irishpipes is offline
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I've seen some knee-jerk calls for saferooms at schools here in Oklahoma. That wouldn't have saved these kids because a reinforced above-ground room will not stand up to an EF-4 or EF-5. Because you can't tell until afterwards what the strength of the storm is, investing in anything other than an underground shelter would not be helpful. It's not like you can say, "oh, it only looks like an F2 so let's go ahead to the saferoom."

I always think it's funny how people fear what they aren't familiar with - myself included. Tornadoes obviously can cause major damage, but 1/5 of 1% of tornadoes are EF-5 strength. Tornadic storms have plenty of warning. I have a lot more fear of earthquakes because of the lack of warning. Hurricanes also have a lot of warning, but the path they take tends to be much broader than a tornado. I guess it's all what you're used to.

I hope the meteorology folks at OU can eventually tell us why Moore is hit so often. It is unbelievable that 2 of the worst storms in history hit the same location. And, they have been hit plenty of other times with lesser but still significant tornadoes (2003 and 2010 most recently). Aside from Catoosa in 1993, the Tulsa area has been really lucky.
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  #47  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:30 AM
Sciencewoman Sciencewoman is offline
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My sister and her husband are moving to Joplin to join medical practices this summer. They are coming back today from house-hunting. They had made a previous offer, but the inspection failed because black mold developed in that house during weather exposure/remodeling from the Joplin tornado. She said the first thing out of the realtor's mouth at every house is info about the safe room, storm shelter, etc. Most of the houses they're looking at are complete rebuilds or extensive remodels because so many homes were damaged or destroyed. They had also considered joining practices near Tulsa, and she said none of the realtors there mentioned tornado shelters at all.

They're building a second hospital in Joplin, and it's located "kitty corner" from the other hospital. The prevailing direction of tornadoes was taken into consideration, so that it is highly unlikely both would be damaged during another tornado. My sister said that the tornado has really affected the psyche of the city.

It breaks my heart to think about the children killed by the Oklahoma tornado.
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  #48  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:36 AM
HQWest HQWest is offline
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Not a meterologist, but have looked at this before. EF5 tornados are not very common. I found a list. -->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._EF5_tornadoes

The EF4 that hit Tuscaloosa, the EF5 that hit Joplin, MO or the EF5 that hit outside of Austin in Jarrell, Texas back in 1998 could have still hurt people in cellars or basements with a direct hit. Many of the people that died in Jarrell were in shelters.

Growing up in Texas, I have seen a tornado, and you usually get some warning. It is just really terrible that sometimes there is no way to get out of the way. I feel terrible for the children in Oklahoma.

One of the reasons some areas are more likely to be hit is that the heat generated and transmitted by large cities and large areas of concrete can disrupt turbulance in a thunderstorm and break up storms some. The reforming cell will then come down later. In Texas, this means reforming on the south side of the city. Often that land has been historically left open - but then that has led to some of trailer parks constructed in those locations.

What we are seeing now is that thunderstorm cell reform father south - possibly the growing size of the urban area and the suburbs coming together. It is one of the reasons San Marcos, Texas gets hit by thunderstorms so hard - cells deflected by Austin and the burbs run into heat off of San Antonio and have no where to go. It is also why the tornados that hit downtown Ft. Worth and Oklahoma City directly are so unusual.
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  #49  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:25 PM
angels&angles angels&angles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sciencewoman View Post
They had also considered joining practices near Tulsa, and she said none of the realtors there mentioned tornado shelters at all.
Frankly, if she'd been looking in midtown Tulsa, they would have. Most of the older homes in Tulsa have basements, and most of the stuff in the suburbs don't.
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  #50  
Old 05-21-2013, 01:00 PM
knight_shadow knight_shadow is offline
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Originally Posted by limegreen View Post
Tornadoes are so frightening because there is so little, if any, warning. At least with the hurricanes, we have days notice to prepare.
We get plenty of warning (we find out about the storm cells well in advance), but people don't often take heed to the "take shelter" advice because it's rare that a "super-tornado" will actually hit. I remember when the small tornado hit downtown Dallas a couple years ago, folks were standing outside filming it and laughing about it -- while they were directly in its path.

-----------

Looks like there's another large cell that's making its way through. Wichita Falls and OK City seem to be getting the worst of it right now. So far, DFW is gloomy but nothing severe has made its way though.
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  #51  
Old 05-21-2013, 01:24 PM
limegreen limegreen is offline
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They do give warning as far as issuing watches and warnings go. I guess I should have worded that better. I was comparing it to the time you get to prepare for a hurricane - boarding up your windows, packing your car and heading out if you're in a flood zone or direct path vs. the time for a tornado, which is seek out shelter immediately. I've experienced both, so that's where I was coming from.
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  #52  
Old 05-21-2013, 02:03 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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To assist the people of Moore, OK, you can test "STORM" to 80888 and donate $10 to the Salvation Army, "REDCROSS" to 90999 to donate $10 to Red Cross Disaster Relief or "FOOD" to 32333 to give $10 to the Oklahoma Regional Food Bank.

Right now the Red Cross is turning away volunteers, so we're coordinating with UCO's volunteer department to help get supplies, etc. to affected families and first responders. One of our brother's grandmother lost her home. Everyone else is alright.

If you want to send supplies, Mu Tau is accepting supplies which we will donate to the American Red Cross or the Salvation Army as appropriate. Please send bottled water, blankets, clothing, gloves (heavy duty), large black trash bags (contractor grade), shovels, toiletries, sunscreen, dust masks and steel toed boots to Sigma Nu Tornado Relief, 301 E. Edwards, Edmond, OK 73034.

Chris Frioux, (an alumnus of my chapter), a local radio personality interviewed the photographer of one of the iconic photographs taken following the storm. http://www.kj103fm.com/pages/fritobl...ticle=11307585
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  #53  
Old 05-21-2013, 02:08 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Originally Posted by angels&angles View Post
Frankly, if she'd been looking in midtown Tulsa, they would have. Most of the older homes in Tulsa have basements, and most of the stuff in the suburbs don't.
Tulsa has been very fortunate to have not been hit by a serious tornado in quite some time. A word about those older homes in Tulsa: if you're able to do a lot of maintenance yourself, they're fine. Otherwise, they can quickly become a money pit. I will say midtown Tulsa is absolutely beautiful and there's plenty to do in that area vs. say.. Owasso or Jenks.

You might be money ahead to just buy a storm cellar instead though. I'm planning a backyard remodel in the next few years. Storm cellars are surprisingly affordable.
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  #54  
Old 05-21-2013, 04:04 PM
knight_shadow knight_shadow is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
You might be money ahead to just buy a storm cellar instead though. I'm planning a backyard remodel in the next few years. Storm cellars are surprisingly affordable.
That's what my parents have done. They have a shed in the backyard with a shelter underneath it (Central TX area). It wasn't terribly expensive and is a pretty good size.
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  #55  
Old 05-21-2013, 04:18 PM
LaneSig LaneSig is offline
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Our office is full of parents who have been coming to get their children. We are under a tornado watch and everybody is nervous because of Oklahoma.
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  #56  
Old 05-21-2013, 06:32 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Our office is full of parents who have been coming to get their children. We are under a tornado watch and everybody is nervous because of Oklahoma.
99 times out of 100, the school building is MUCH safer than the parent's home or worse, being stuck on the road with a tornado heading towards you.
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  #57  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:32 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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The real irony is that seven children died in the basement of one of those schools because of flooding. That would have been considered the safest possible place, but it didn't work out that way.

It is a natural reaction to immediately say "We have to do this to prevent such a tragedy again." In truth, when a tornado like that strikes, there is little anybody can do. Some tragedies just can't be prevented. The early warning systems we have now really save a lot of lives. The technology to predict which systems may produce tornadoes has improved greatly over the last 30 years. Sometimes though, the best you can do is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
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  #58  
Old 05-22-2013, 08:57 AM
irishpipes irishpipes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGDee View Post
The real irony is that seven children died in the basement of one of those schools because of flooding. That would have been considered the safest possible place, but it didn't work out that way.

It is a natural reaction to immediately say "We have to do this to prevent such a tragedy again." In truth, when a tornado like that strikes, there is little anybody can do. Some tragedies just can't be prevented. The early warning systems we have now really save a lot of lives. The technology to predict which systems may produce tornadoes has improved greatly over the last 30 years. Sometimes though, the best you can do is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Such a good point. And the flooding was caused by a water line that broke. Of course people should prepare as well as possible, but sometimes tragedy can't be avoided.
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  #59  
Old 05-22-2013, 01:34 PM
amIblue? amIblue? is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
99 times out of 100, the school building is MUCH safer than the parent's home or worse, being stuck on the road with a tornado heading towards you.
This times 1000. If no underground shelter is available, I would much rather take my chances against a tornado in a typical steel frame and concrete block school building than most other buildings. They usually will withstand most (not all) storms.

My heart breaks for these people as they mourn their loved ones and try to rebuild. I think I could handle the loss of my possessions, but not my child.
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  #60  
Old 05-22-2013, 03:11 PM
Sciencewoman Sciencewoman is offline
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My sister and her husband put an offer on a house in Joplin this weekend...no basement, but it does have a FEMA-certified storm shelter. Their daughter's future school also has a FEMA-certified storm shelter.
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