"Woke"

[Sen's Revenge]

This has been on my mind for some months now, and I haven't really figured out the most effective way to convey what I need to say. So I hope I am granted some grace if what I am saying is clunky or not clear.

I've noticed on GC the use of the word "woke" to essentialy describe a particular kind of white ally of movements of racial justice.

First, I want to provide a commonly accepted definition of the word "woke" prior to this moment:

"...political term of African American origin, refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice."

There are specific songs, plays, works of art, etc, which use this word--all black art.

When I hear "woke" as a black man, I think of the black experience--my black experience--and my awakening, be it the deepening of my awareness of racial injustice and systemic racism, or my awarness of the issues facing black women or black transwomen.

Seeing the word "woke" used to describe the white people in your organizations that you disagree with... that feels really uncomfortable for me. 10 percent of that is that you're using a word from the African American tradition and you are not African American. 90 percent of that is that you're using a word from the African American tradition and turning it into a slur.

Listen, if there are white people in your organizations calling themselves "woke," they should not be. It grates my ears as much as it does yours. But to take it to the next level and call those people "woke" or even "fake woke" sounds, to me, a black person, like something I hope you're not intending.

Because what I am hearing when you type that is, at best "I am not open to learning about a point of view which differs from mine because I am holding onto my beliefs at all costs." And at worst, honestly? I am hearing you say "N***** lover."

Most of you reading this will not care. Some of you will be offended that I told you how I receive the words that you say. It is what it is. At least I've said it.

But know that because this is how you've decided to show up on GC, this is why I'm averse to participating in a Zoom call with you to celebrate GC's anniversary.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

This has been on my mind for some months now, and I haven't really figured out the most effective way to convey what I need to say. So I hope I am granted some grace if what I am saying is clunky or not clear.

I've noticed on GC the use of the word "woke" to essentialy describe a particular kind of white ally of movements of racial justice.

First, I want to provide a commonly accepted definition of the word "woke" prior to this moment:

"...political term of African American origin, refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice."

There are specific songs, plays, works of art, etc, which use this word--all black art.

When I hear "woke" as a black man, I think of the black experience--my black experience--and my awakening, be it the deepening of my awareness of racial injustice and systemic racism, or my awarness of the issues facing black women or black transwomen.

Seeing the word "woke" used to describe the white people in your organizations that you disagree with... that feels really uncomfortable for me. 10 percent of that is that you're using a word from the African American tradition and you are not African American. 90 percent of that is that you're using a word from the African American tradition and turning it into a slur.

Listen, if there are white people in your organizations calling themselves "woke," they should not be. It grates my ears as much as it does yours. But to take it to the next level and call those people "woke" or even "fake woke" sounds, to me, a black person, like something I hope you're not intending.

Because what I am hearing when you type that is, at best "I am not open to learning about a point of view which differs from mine because I am holding onto my beliefs at all costs." And at worst, honestly? I am hearing you say "N***** lover."

Most of you reading this will not care. Some of you will be offended that I told you how I receive the words that you say. It is what it is. At least I've said it.

But know that because this is how you've decided to show up on GC, this is why I'm averse to participating in a Zoom call with you to celebrate GC's anniversary.

I'm white, and even I was uncomfortable with how it's been used here over the past couple months - it's certainly made me cringe on more than one occasion. But I also didn't know if my feelings were valid or if it was my place to call others out on it, because perhaps I was ignorant to the word's true meaning and history. Clearly I was.

Thank you for the lesson and for speaking how you feel. Of course those feelings are valid and should be listened to and learned from by all of us.

[Kevin]

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[GreatGnat]

Very well said! I am not African American myself, but I share your discomfort with the way the word "woke" has been used inappropriately here and the way some people want to make a fuss over why NPC organizations have to make changes that NPHC groups do not. If only people would more deeply reflect on their organization's histories and realize the long history of discriminatory policies and practice which were often the impetus for the creation of many multicultural organizations.

I am a POC and an immigrant, and when I pledged an NPC organization in the mid 2010s along with my pledge class full of diverse women, I knew that there would be alumnae of our sorority who would be opposed to our membership. It is extremely disheartening to see certain members of GC voice their displeasure at measures being taken to improve the NPC experience for all its members and future members, and has really validated all my insecurities about my membership.

[33girl]

I know I did this today, Sen. I didn’t realize it was this hurtful to you, and I’m sorry. I’ll edit my post and I won’t do it again.

[TXDG]

Thank you for your post and your bravery. This white woman agrees with you: the use of “woke” on this forum (and especially by one particular poster, not you 33girl) is intended as a slur. As a mockery of white allies standing up for the black community. And as something that certain middle aged white sorority women most definitely don’t want permeating their sisterhoods. It’s disgusting and I agree at the very core, it’s racist.

No BLM supporting, equality pursuing sorority women are calling themselves “woke”, that’s for sure.

[robinseggblue]

Thank you for sharing your perspective and the effort and time you took to write this post, Sen.

Originally Posted by TXDG

Thank you for your post and your bravery. This white woman agrees with you: the use of “woke” on this forum (and especially by one particular poster, not you 33girl) is intended as a slur. As a mockery of white allies standing up for the black community. And as something that certain middle aged white sorority women most definitely don’t want permeating their sisterhoods. It’s disgusting and I agree at the very core, it’s racist.

I have noticed the same thing and I agree with you.

I don’t mean to derail the thread, but I have to admit I have heard about things that caused me trepidation about posting different views on this forum. People who have spoken up have not just been mocked, but also completely silenced.

[andthen]

Thank you Sen, you do have a good way of explaining things and also sharing your point of view in an honest and genuine way that sometimes can't always be conveyed via a screen.

I starting hearing the term being bandied about but never clearly understood the background/origins of it. I was never keen on using the word myself as a Latinx just because honestly its just isn't a term I use especially in this current era of social justice awareness.

I think there is a good takeaway that even though a word might be sort of be on trend in a way it is a good idea to really understand the context and the background.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

Most of you reading this will not care. Some of you will be offended that I told you how I receive the words that you say. It is what it is. At least I've said it.

I cannot thank you enough for your words, and I appreciate the very thoughtful way you presented the commentary. I have used the word "woke" (not on GC but in conversation, and never as a pejorative) to describe white people, as I was ignorant of its etymology. I am happy to have learned something new today that will change the way I speak/write in the future.

[navane]

Thank you for having the courage to speak up and sharing your message with us.

[Sen's Revenge]

Thanks everybody, and thanks for reading.

[lake]

The horse is out of the gate regarding the word "woke" used in ways you disagree with. Regardless of its origins, it’s becoming a term used by many people.

The OP mentioned the word is used in songs, plays, and works of art - and emphasized black art. Although it wasn’t explicitly stated, I got the impression the subject of “cultural appropriation” was being approached or implied. I also got the impression that maybe I (and other non-black people) were being subtly told we can’t use the word because of the color of our skin or our heritage.

Cultures and language evolve over time and influence one another. Cultures have been borrowing from one another (and their languages) since the beginning of all of us. It would be arrogant for any group to claim “appropriation” because groups can’t exert ownership over words, things or trends. To claim cultural appropriation is to claim your group is above the mixing and influence happening when cultures meet. And that is insulting to those outside of your culture.

Someone using a word from the African American tradition and them not being African American is allowed in a free society. Perhaps it is becoming somewhat of a slur, but again, once it’s out there no one can possibly control how it’s used. I bristle at disparaging terms used to describe me and others like me just because we have different (not better or worse) beliefs.

If there are white people in organizations calling themselves “woke”, they CAN (even if you don’t think they should). Even if it grates my ears as much as it does yours (and it does). Being uncomfortable and annoyed sometimes is the price people pay to live in a free society. And unrestricted speech is allowed in a free society. And I am willing to die on this hill.

Calling people "woke" or even "fake woke" is probably not what you’re thinking, or what the other person is intending. It probably comes from a sense of annoyance, not racial hatred. Feeling constantly disrespected because we hold different (not necessarily better or worse) values and beliefs. Think micro-aggression.

Some may be offended that I disagree that certain people can’t use certain words because of the color of their skin or their heritage. To me, this says, at best, "I am not open to learning about a point of view which differs from mine because I am holding onto my beliefs at all costs." And at worst, honestly? I am hearing you say "RACIST".

As the OP said, most of you reading this will not care. Some of you will be offended that I told you how I receive the words that you say. It is what it is. At least I've said it.

[What?]

Originally Posted by lake

The horse is out of the gate regarding the word "woke" used in ways you disagree with. Regardless of its origins, it’s becoming a term used by many people.

The OP mentioned the word is used in songs, plays, and works of art - and emphasized black art. Although it wasn’t explicitly stated, I got the impression the subject of “cultural appropriation” was being approached or implied. I also got the impression that maybe I (and other non-black people) were being subtly told we can’t use the word because of the color of our skin or our heritage.

Cultures and language evolve over time and influence one another. Cultures have been borrowing from one another (and their languages) since the beginning of all of us. It would be arrogant for any group to claim “appropriation” because groups can’t exert ownership over words, things or trends. To claim cultural appropriation is to claim your group is above the mixing and influence happening when cultures meet. And that is insulting to those outside of your culture.

Someone using a word from the African American tradition and them not being African American is allowed in a free society. Perhaps it is becoming somewhat of a slur, but again, once it’s out there no one can possibly control how it’s used. I bristle at disparaging terms used to describe me and others like me just because we have different (not better or worse) beliefs.

If there are white people in organizations calling themselves “woke”, they CAN (even if you don’t think they should). Even if it grates my ears as much as it does yours (and it does). Being uncomfortable and annoyed sometimes is the price people pay to live in a free society. And unrestricted speech is allowed in a free society. And I am willing to die on this hill.

Calling people "woke" or even "fake woke" is probably not what you’re thinking, or what the other person is intending. It probably comes from a sense of annoyance, not racial hatred. Feeling constantly disrespected because we hold different (not necessarily better or worse) values and beliefs. Think micro-aggression.

Some may be offended that I disagree that certain people can’t use certain words because of the color of their skin or their heritage. To me, this says, at best, "I am not open to learning about a point of view which differs from mine because I am holding onto my beliefs at all costs." And at worst, honestly? I am hearing you say "RACIST".

As the OP said, most of you reading this will not care. Some of you will be offended that I told you how I receive the words that you say. It is what it is. At least I've said it.

Sorry if it have screwed up the quote, but I could not agree more. The question becomes to you want a melting pot or a stew? I personally prefer the melting pot.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by lake

The horse is out of the gate regarding the word "woke" used in ways you disagree with. Regardless of its origins, it’s becoming a term used by many people.

The OP mentioned the word is used in songs, plays, and works of art - and emphasized black art. Although it wasn’t explicitly stated, I got the impression the subject of “cultural appropriation” was being approached or implied. I also got the impression that maybe I (and other non-black people) were being subtly told we can’t use the word because of the color of our skin or our heritage.

Cultures and language evolve over time and influence one another. Cultures have been borrowing from one another (and their languages) since the beginning of all of us. It would be arrogant for any group to claim “appropriation” because groups can’t exert ownership over words, things or trends. To claim cultural appropriation is to claim your group is above the mixing and influence happening when cultures meet. And that is insulting to those outside of your culture.

Someone using a word from the African American tradition and them not being African American is allowed in a free society. Perhaps it is becoming somewhat of a slur, but again, once it’s out there no one can possibly control how it’s used. I bristle at disparaging terms used to describe me and others like me just because we have different (not better or worse) beliefs.

If there are white people in organizations calling themselves “woke”, they CAN (even if you don’t think they should). Even if it grates my ears as much as it does yours (and it does). Being uncomfortable and annoyed sometimes is the price people pay to live in a free society. And unrestricted speech is allowed in a free society. And I am willing to die on this hill.

Calling people "woke" or even "fake woke" is probably not what you’re thinking, or what the other person is intending. It probably comes from a sense of annoyance, not racial hatred. Feeling constantly disrespected because we hold different (not necessarily better or worse) values and beliefs. Think micro-aggression.

Some may be offended that I disagree that certain people can’t use certain words because of the color of their skin or their heritage. To me, this says, at best, "I am not open to learning about a point of view which differs from mine because I am holding onto my beliefs at all costs." And at worst, honestly? I am hearing you say "RACIST".

As the OP said, most of you reading this will not care. Some of you will be offended that I told you how I receive the words that you say. It is what it is. At least I've said it.

There are enough dog whistles in your post to let me know exactly who you are and what you believe, and believe me: I am not offended that I know you're racist.

[Pikefest]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

There are enough dog whistles in your post to let me know exactly who you are and what you believe, and believe me: I am not offended that I know you're racist.

This is why we can’t have open discussions about race. All dissenting opinions equal racism.