African American vs Black vs African American

[mccoyred]

Your (and others') reasons are precisely why I believe we should identify ourselves as Black and not African-American:

1) many Black people in this country are not American;
2) most Black people in this country are multi-racial or multi-ethnic;
3) we should identify with others in the Diaspora around the world who share our African ancestry and hence our struggles.

Also as a previous poster indicated, there are a number of groups around the world who 'look Black' (ie Hindu Indians, Arabs,etc) but do not identify with our struggles. These people are not included in my definition!

So you see, the same reasons why you insist we should call ourselves African-American are precisely why I feel we should not.

BTW, the name 'Africa' is a European appellation that we can reject for a number of reasons. I'm doing some additional research to back up some thoughts I have on that subject so I'll get back to that subject later.

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
In attempts to be "Politically Correct", most places of employment and govt agencies now label the boxes "African-American"; and thank God they do so. Most of us don't know why we should call ourselves such. Being members of Greek-Lettered organizations(and thus leaders of our people), we especially should demonstrate pride in the origin of our people, and how we classify ourselves.

I started a thread addressing this issue some time ago on the Alpha line. I acknowledged the fact that most "black" people here are really bi-racial or multi-racial. My father was 1/4 Seminole, and my mother is African-American. I am proud of BOTH heritages. I refuse, unlike so many other people in this country, to deny my African ancestry and just simply claim to be Seminole; doing so would leave me half-defined. I am proud of both, but will acknowledge the one most people see when they see me;and that is the African-American part of me. Like Peter Tosh said: No matter where you come from; just as long as you're a black man, YOU'RE AN AFRICAN!!!

------------------
MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by mccoyred:
Your (and others') reasons are precisely why I believe we should identify ourselves as Black and not African-American:

1) many Black people in this country are not American;
2) most Black people in this country are multi-racial or multi-ethnic;
3) we should identify with others in the Diaspora around the world who share our African ancestry and hence our struggles.

Also as a previous poster indicated, there are a number of groups around the world who 'look Black' (ie Hindu Indians, Arabs,etc) but do not identify with our struggles. These people are not included in my definition!

So you see, the same reasons why you insist we should call ourselves African-American are precisely why I feel we should not.

BTW, the name 'Africa' is a European appellation that we can reject for a number of reasons. I'm doing some additional research to back up some thoughts I have on that subject so I'll get back to that subject later.

I can't wait to see your proof of your statement about Africa being a european appellation.

[AKAtude]

AKA2D and Mccoyred,
I agree with you.

Original Ape,
The last form I filled out, I recall checking "Black" and that was last week. No one is running from our heritage. Who decided it was politically correct to refer to us an African-American anyway? No one asked me my opinion.

Obviously, everyone has an opinion and to each his own. I will continue to use black or African-American whenever I want and if I choose to do so because it is my choice.

[PositivelyAKA]

Originally posted by Lady of Interest:
I agree this can be a touchy issue for some people. I have picked up a lot of slack because I refer to myself as West Indian. I was born and raised in the islands. According to the American society once your skin is a certain color you are considered African American(black). I agree with Talaxe when she stated that not all blacks are African American. I come from a family of very diverse backgrounds and it seems to me that people are always trying to put us into categories. We are all human so, why should it really matter?

exactly, why does it matter? well because certain people still want to be discriminatory, they do not want to see people as people, because it gives them no leverage to hate. simply put some people are just evil, . and i'm sick of everybody who has a drop of black blood being throw into a category that they do not necessarily desire to be in (ie. Tiger Woods) forget Tiger Woods let him get in where he fits in, when the day is done people will see him how they want to see him regardless of how he sees his self, which i am sure he is already learning. if you are mixed then you are mixed, "say it loud" if you are half this and half that "say it loud" why deny any part of who you are because someone else who is very shallow and ignorant wants to define you for their own hateful purposes. WE need to stop letting others define who we are as a people, because this forced categorizing just breeds division among blacks and those who have some black in them but do not wish to be identified as such. why should they, it certainly is not to their benefit to be black in this country, so if they don't want to be identified as black we should let them have that choice. as for me i am black, both my parents are black, both my grandparents are black, that's good enough for me, also no one in my family is from Africa or has ever been to Africa. but if someone refers to me as African American i don't get upset because some of my ancestors were definitely from that great continent, so its all good

[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited December 20, 2000).]

[AKA_Monet]

Sorry sorors, sisterfriends and fellow "board" participants, this message is a long one, so just skip it if you don't care.

Some of you have asked if there is research in the terminology. Well, here it is...

The book entitled "Melinin, the chemisty of this compound" . You will find it in a Afrocentric bookstore. The book is paperback and is yellow.

A must read is WEB DuBois, "Souls of Black Folk". Research the philosophical arguments between him and Booker T. Washington... Also Carter G. Woodson's "The Mis-Education of the Negro". Research the history of Marcus Garvey and the Back to Africa movement in the 1920's.

Get any book from author John Henrik Clarke. He is called the father of an African Centered perspective. Ivan Van Sertima, another author who as researched the Afrikan heritage of the ancient queens in Afrika. He has written several books. The book entitled "The Isis Papers" by Dr. (my Alzheimer's is kickin' in... totally slips my mind).

The book entitled, "Black Women in White America"

Dr. Martin Luther King's "Why we can't wait".

Kwame Ture of the Black Panthers has written several books on this subject.

Nkrumah, 1st president of an Afrikan nation that won their freedom from europee-on colonization, he has written a book. I think he was from Nigeria, but I could be wrong. And I apologize if I have offended any Ghanians if he's truly from there... However he is from the "sub-continent" of Afrika...

Many of you HAVE to do your research, asap. Ask yourselves how you got to be called---anything. Really, you could be called slave... Really, we are all lucky for folks to call us anything... What does the word "Afrika" mean? What language is word "Afrika" in? Once you will find those definitions, you will determine how you feel your need to identify yourselves... We can barely answer the question "Who am I"!!!

I'm in the field to examine the science of race... And genetically, there is no such thing. We are all gradiations of each other with a polymorphic genetic code. It's like we're all roses and we all have thorns, but we come in different colors and we smell. Some of us are small roses, some of us are big ones. Nevertheless, we are all roses...

To read about the science of "race" or rather the evolution of Homo sapiens sapiens , read in the journal called "Science" under the mitochondial "Eve" from 1987-1990. There have been several scientific articles devoted to this subject and all the biologists cannot find any major differences, such as extra limbs or no hooves, in all humans on the planet... The written science of "Race" is just a bunch of BS made up by some assholic 18th century Sociologists after Darwin proposed his ideas of evolution...

Also, if you choose seek an Afrikan centered perspective, many of your epistemologies (meaning why you think the way you do--there are "forces" that have predicted and already expect your thought processes), then an absolute MUST READ is Dr. Marimba Ani's book entitled "Yurugu". That book... That book will blow your mind... 20 years of her life has been devoted to the science as to why we negroes (and most of us (the "n" word)/negroes/black/Black/afro-americans/African Americans or whatever) are the way we are. She has created definitions to explain why we think certain way and how we got into this BS about race from jump... As my college kids say, it's like "whoa"...

As for what I call myself... I am human. I choose my ethnic heritage to be of Afrikan descent which ties me to a physical land. It's soil that oneday I may walk on and experience the MAAFA that so long ago decimated the existence my anscestors. I choose my ethnicity to be "in American" (spelled amerikkklan) because I deserve it and my anscestors worked this land just like everybody else. I refuse to be defined by others. In fact I want to be indescribable (sp.). Because once I reach that point, I have transcended to my inherited ancestorial "spirit" genes that makes me reach my divinity...

[DST Love]

I use the term "Black" myself, however I don't mind if African-American is used. Now let me start with this, if we call ourselves African-American then what does someone like Charlize Theiron (the white actress from "The Legend of Bagger Vance") who is from South Africa and now an American citizen call herself. Is she not African-American? Also, I don't know about you, but like my father, I'm proud to be an American, not that I am denying that I probably have African ancestry as well, but I know for a fact that my "Black" ancestors are the reason why this country is what it is today. Our ancestors helped build this country literally. Not only through physical means but also through all of their willingness and courage to fight for what they believe, their great inventions and other contributions. Now I don't care whether white people or anyone else want to ignore that or give us our just due because they don't define who I am. God, history, family and I define who I am.

[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited December 20, 2000).]

[AKA2D '91]

...Like I said earlier, JUST CALL ME BY MY NAME...

[AKAtude]

**LOL at Soror AKA2D**

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by AKAtude:
AKA2D and Mccoyred,
I agree with you.

Original Ape,
The last form I filled out, I recall checking "Black" and that was last week. No one is running from our heritage. Who decided it was politically correct to refer to us an African-American anyway? No one asked me my opinion.

Obviously, everyone has an opinion and to each his own. I will continue to use black or African-American whenever I want and if I choose to do so because it is my choice.

Don't get me wrong; I respect people's right to define themselves. No matter what you call yourself, there is a basis for identity. You have Alphas, Deltas,Kappas, Ques, Sigs, Zetas, Bloods, Crips, European-Americans, Asian-Americans, Native-Americans, African-Americans, Latin-Americans; in any event, there is a basis for identity. You choose the basis and hope to receive the identity that comes with it. Think about it.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my intent.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by DST Love:
I use the term "Black" myself, however I don't mind if African-American is used. Now let me start with this, if we call ourselves African-American then what does someone like Charlize Theiron (the white actress from "The Legend of Bagger Vance") who is from South Africa and now an American citizen call herself. Is she not African-American? Also, I don't know about you, but like my father, I'm proud to be an American, not that I am denying that I probably have African ancestry as well, but I know for a fact that my "Black" ancestors are the reason why this country is what it is today. Our ancestors helped build this country literally. Not only through physical means but also through all of their willingness and courage to fight for what they believe, their great inventions and other contributions. Now I don't care whether white people or anyone else want to ignore that or give us our just due because they don't define who I am. God, history, family and I define who I am.

[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited December 20, 2000).]

You are valid in the assumption of what Charlize Theron can call herself. She would probably prefer to be of Afrikaaner descent because her anscestors traveled from Denmark (and elsewhere) to populate the land in South Africa. Currently, the Afrikaaners are fighting for their rights as farmers to farm "their" forefather's land... These arguments stem from the post Apartheid regime and the ANC. Either way, the region is rather unstable and may go into conflict at any point much like that of upper sub-Saharan countries, i.e. Rwanda, Sierre Leone, Liberia.

As far as the point of personal preferences, I agree with my soror AKA912D--I have a name my parents endowed to me, I would like others to use it, thank you...

And my point is we all need to get away from the concept of race. I know it has been centuries that we have used our color to define our culture(s) and our reference point(s) in the universe. However, IMHO, we need to move away from that concept now. Practically a whole religion based on a small a gene product, tyrosinase, that is more abundant in darker complexion skin cells which produces higher levels of (eu)melinin. That concept is old, not 21st century thinking, it's soooo last millennia.

If you understand the nature of White Supremacy, you understand how we folk of a darker hue have been deconstructed and subjugated. I knew what I said would make some people disgruntled, it's a hard concept to learn to let go our enslaved selves. It's easier to deny our true sovereignty and claim a cultural asili use to oppress us so that we can easily move thru "mainstream" society. However, it's a high cost to do that--I have to do it everyday and it's practically drive me nucking futs! But what's happening is that we have lived under europee-on ideology for so long, such as who is the best president to lead this country--think immediately, who come into your mind? Ask yourself does your immediate thinking follow your Afrikan centered anscestors thoughts? How come we can't think of the immediate from our Afrikan heritage? Some of do, most of us don't... We have been brainwashed and bamboozled... How do we break outta of it? Think about it. Black Afrikan annihilation did not start with the American Revolution... Nor did it start with the first darker hued person to be sold to a much more lighter hued person... It started when Aristole philosophically segregated the spirit from the body. Most Afrikan cultures are incapable of doing that. Why do you think we are always talking about the church??? Why do you think Ilyana Vanzant's so popular, now? Could it be the transmission of our cultural asili from our Afrikan anscestors? We can never forget where we come from. Why is that? Most white men I discuss this concept with tell me they never think of themselves as anything other than American, even if their anscestors came during the massive white europee-on migration in the 1900s. But I tell you, these folks suffer from classism, too. Such as an elitist caucasian vs. one that comes from a trailer park... Now truly ask yourself this question, who has the harder life, a man of Afrikan descent who has numerous degrees but still gets beat down by the cops or a man of europeeon descent that grew up in a trailer park?

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet:
As far as the point of personal preferences, I agree with my soror AKA912D--

AIGHT, SOROR...I HOPE YOUR FINGERS WERE TIRED OF ALL THAT TYPING AND YOU SIMPLY NEEDED A BREAK...

BUT, I still WUB YOU!

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by mccoyred:
Your (and others') reasons are precisely why I believe we should identify ourselves as Black and not African-American:

1) many Black people in this country are not American;
2) most Black people in this country are multi-racial or multi-ethnic;
3) we should identify with others in the Diaspora around the world who share our African ancestry and hence our struggles.

Also as a previous poster indicated, there are a number of groups around the world who 'look Black' (ie Hindu Indians, Arabs,etc) but do not identify with our struggles. These people are not included in my definition!

So you see, the same reasons why you insist we should call ourselves African-American are precisely why I feel we should not.

BTW, the name 'Africa' is a European appellation that we can reject for a number of reasons. I'm doing some additional research to back up some thoughts I have on that subject so I'll get back to that subject later.

Dear Sista,

Are you at all familiar with the phrase Pan-African? The slave trade placed us in every corner of the earth; but it took us FROM AFRICA. Since it was the place of origin for all dark people, we should therefore acknowledge it in our way of identifying ourselves.

As I said earlier, I respect each person's way of defining themselves.

I'm still waiting on your proof.

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by AKAtude:
Yes, when you ask them, but no one has ever had to ask me if I have African roots! I'm already pre-classified as having African ancestory because of the color of my skin.
There are various nationalities within European society to choose from (Italian, German, French, Welch, Scottish, etc.) I'm not trying to be rude or funny, but I can't tell which nationality white people fall into unless I ask or they tell me. They check the box that says "WHITE" just like we check the box that says "BLACK".

In attempts to be "Politically Correct", most places of employment and govt agencies now label the boxes "African-American"; and thank God they do so. Most of us don't know why we should call ourselves such. Being members of Greek-Lettered organizations(and thus leaders of our people), we especially should demonstrate pride in the origin of our people, and how we classify ourselves.

I started a thread addressing this issue some time ago on the Alpha line. I acknowledged the fact that most "black" people here are really bi-racial or multi-racial. My father was 1/4 Seminole, and my mother is African-American. I am proud of BOTH heritages. I refuse, unlike so many other people in this country, to deny my African ancestry and just simply claim to be Seminole; doing so would leave me half-defined. I am proud of both, but will acknowledge the one most people see when they see me;and that is the African-American part of me. Like Peter Tosh said: No matter where you come from; just as long as you're a black man, YOU'RE AN AFRICAN!!!

[AKA2D '91]

In the END, does it really matter?
We ALL are of some descent. I am sure that most of us are not 100% Black, African American, Colored, Negro, or whatever!
Why make a BIG deal over it? As long as you know who you are and are comfortable with YOU! Dayum what someone else thinks or calls us! Just call me by my name...

BTW, I check the OTHER box.

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet:
Sorry sorors, sisterfriends and fellow "board" participants, this message is a long one, so just skip it if you don't care.

Some of you have asked if there is research in the terminology. Well, here it is...

The book entitled "Melinin, the chemisty of this compound" . You will find it in a Afrocentric bookstore. The book is paperback and is yellow.

A must read is WEB DuBois, "Souls of Black Folk". Research the philosophical arguments between him and Booker T. Washington... Also Carter G. Woodson's "The Mis-Education of the Negro". Research the history of Marcus Garvey and the Back to Africa movement in the 1920's.

Get any book from author John Henrik Clarke. He is called the father of an African Centered perspective. Ivan Van Sertima, another author who as researched the Afrikan heritage of the ancient queens in Afrika. He has written several books. The book entitled "The Isis Papers" by Dr. (my Alzheimer's is kickin' in... totally slips my mind).

The book entitled, "Black Women in White America"

Dr. Martin Luther King's "Why we can't wait".

Kwame Ture of the Black Panthers has written several books on this subject.

Nkrumah, 1st president of an Afrikan nation that won their freedom from europee-on colonization, he has written a book. I think he was from Nigeria, but I could be wrong. And I apologize if I have offended any Ghanians if he's truly from there... However he is from the "sub-continent" of Afrika...

Many of you HAVE to do your research, asap. Ask yourselves how you got to be called---anything. Really, you could be called slave... Really, we are all lucky for folks to call us anything... What does the word "Afrika" mean? What language is word "Afrika" in? Once you will find those definitions, you will determine how you feel your need to identify yourselves... We can barely answer the question "Who am I"!!!

I'm in the field to examine the science of race... And genetically, there is no such thing. We are all gradiations of each other with a polymorphic genetic code. It's like we're all roses and we all have thorns, but we come in different colors and we smell. Some of us are small roses, some of us are big ones. Nevertheless, we are all roses...

To read about the science of "race" or rather the evolution of Homo sapiens sapiens , read in the journal called "Science" under the mitochondial "Eve" from 1987-1990. There have been several scientific articles devoted to this subject and all the biologists cannot find any major differences, such as extra limbs or no hooves, in all humans on the planet... The written science of "Race" is just a bunch of BS made up by some assholic 18th century Sociologists after Darwin proposed his ideas of evolution...

Also, if you choose seek an Afrikan centered perspective, many of your epistemologies (meaning why you think the way you do--there are "forces" that have predicted and already expect your thought processes), then an absolute MUST READ is Dr. Marimba Ani's book entitled "Yurugu". That book... That book will blow your mind... 20 years of her life has been devoted to the science as to why we negroes (and most of us (the "n" word)/negroes/black/Black/afro-americans/African Americans or whatever) are the way we are. She has created definitions to explain why we think certain way and how we got into this BS about race from jump... As my college kids say, it's like "whoa"...

As for what I call myself... I am human. I choose my ethnic heritage to be of Afrikan descent which ties me to a physical land. It's soil that oneday I may walk on and experience the MAAFA that so long ago decimated the existence my anscestors. I choose my ethnicity to be "in American" (spelled amerikkklan) because I deserve it and my anscestors worked this land just like everybody else. I refuse to be defined by others. In fact I want to be indescribable (sp.). Because once I reach that point, I have transcended to my inherited ancestorial "spirit" genes that makes me reach my divinity...

Sista monet,(I wish I could put one of those legends here).
I just read this for the first time, and I like what you've said.

[mccoyred]

My brotha, I was able to review some info last night.

In the book entitled "The Destruction of Black Civilization" by Chancellor Williams he does refer (as many sources do) to an even older name for the Continent that is Bilad as Sudan an Arabic phrase meaning Land of the Blacks. So that disputes your claim that there is no land called Black.

Older names of the Continent are Alkebulan, Hikuptah ("Mansion of the Soul of Ptah"), Aigyptos (Greek for "Burnt Faces"), Ta-Meri, Ta-Seti, etc. With the exception of the Greek name from which we derive the name Egypt, all of the above are what the Blacks on the Continent called themselves.

I am still doing research on the name 'Africa' and will let you know when I find what I am seeking.

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
Man is identified by the land from which his forefathers come from. If this is true, anyone living in the Americas with a drop of black blood in their vains is of African origin. If they themselves were born here, the most accurate way to classify them is "African-American". When you ask someone you went to school with whose name is Napoli, Rizzi,or Barzini what their nationality is, they wont say American white; they'll say I'm Italian(and most times leave off the American). By doing so, they show pride in the origin of their family. Most persons that weren't born in America do so. I admit to the fact that most "black" people were born stateside(here in America), but our families did not originate here; and THERE IS NO LAND CALLED BLACK. Therefore, we should classify ourselves as African-American. I think it's f@#$% up that every other kind of people here demand respect for the origin of their family-and make issue of it-but we don't. We want to run from being of African decent anyway we can-our hairstyles, our vernacular and intonation, and any other way we can. Only our music and clothes now tie us together; and we even subjudge ourselves! We can try to run from it all we want; but to the people that really matter here, we're still a bunch of n gas. So why not take pride in ourselves!!!!

------------------
MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by mccoyred:
My brotha, I was able to review some info last night.

In the book entitled "The Destruction of Black Civilization" by Chancellor Williams he does refer (as many sources do) to an even older name for the Continent that is Bilad as Sudan an Arabic phrase meaning Land of the Blacks. So that disputes your claim that there is no land called Black.

Older names of the Continent are Alkebulan, Hikuptah ("Mansion of the Soul of Ptah"), Aigyptos (Greek for "Burnt Faces"), Ta-Meri, Ta-Seti, etc. With the exception of the Greek name from which we derive the name Egypt, all of the above are what the Blacks on the Continent called themselves.

I am still doing research on the name 'Africa' and will let you know when I find what I am seeking.

I stand corrected. Thank you for the enlightenment.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
...We want to run from being of African decent anyway we can-our hairstyles, our vernacular and intonation, and any other way we can. Only our music and clothes now tie us together; and we even subjudge ourselves! We can try to run from it all we want; but to the people that really matter here, we're still a bunch of n gas. So why not take pride in ourselves!!!!

You are correct in US taking no pride in our genetic heritage... Ironically, it takes pride in us just by the black vernacular we often use around each other... Come to find out when "summa" us use triple negatives---"I ain't never heard nuthin' like dat..."---it follows the West Afrikan concept of no association to an object or idea whatsoever... Some nations (tribes) believe spiritually, that if they are associated with something seen as taboo or negative, the ennuciate, emphatically that they have nothing to do with that situation in their language. The idea only got transferred over as the slaves learned english. It's very, very uncanny... Then let's not talk about the derivations of english---like, yeah, right is derived from the Neanderthal... Okay...

[ShamikaT]

Originally posted by mizzkes
I personally prefer to be called African American. That way, I pay homage to my African ancestry as well as to those ancestors who were brought to America to build this country. I don't like to use the term "black" because it sounds kind of archaic, like "negro". Then, I have a problem with simply using "American" because American is not a race, it is a nationality. Being the melting pot, excuse me, salad bowl that it is, I feel that it is necessary for "Americans" to recognize their original ancestry by placing that name, in this case, "African" in front of "American". Lastly, in writing, I often use "Africans in America".

------------------
I'm not conceited, just convinced.

You are wrong here sista. What about whites from Africa? What would you call Kerry's wife?

Just settle with being called black. It ain't nothin wrong with that.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
You are correct in US taking no pride in our genetic heritage... Ironically, it takes pride in us just by the black vernacular we often use around each other... Come to find out when "summa" us use triple negatives---"I ain't never heard nuthin' like dat..."---it follows the West Afrikan concept of no association to an object or idea whatsoever... Some nations (tribes) believe spiritually, that if they are associated with something seen as taboo or negative, the ennuciate, emphatically that they have nothing to do with that situation in their language. The idea only got transferred over as the slaves learned english. It's very, very uncanny... Then let's not talk about the derivations of english---like, yeah, right is derived from the Neanderthal... Okay...

Damn... some ignorant blowhard needs to do a little historical or linguistic research - unless of course that would call in to question the happy little world you concieved for yourself

English is derieved from the Indo-European language group, with the founding root languages being Latin (and subsequent romance languages), Germanic roots (from the invasion of the British Isles), and the Celtic group... as for being derived for Neanderthal is that the shit they "teach" you in the NOI or the New Black Panthers? Hmmm... perhaps a more believable lie could be made - it would only take a little more research...