Retro Recruitment.....with a different ending

[UGAalum94]

I think I've been on my "we've taken anti-hazing policies too far" soap box before about wearing letters, if I remember correctly.

I certainly don't think an individual or group should ever do anything to cause harm or humiliation, but a group should be able to get crowns signed, require interviews, enter a new member team in an event, require people to pass tests on the organization, etc.

I can see why draconian blanket policies are easiest because it leaves no room for doubt or error, but the crown tradition sounds like it could be used beautifully to build sisterhood, rather than abusively to put new members through the ringer, but since it has the potential for making the new members feel that they have to do something they don't want to do, it gets discontinued.
It is a loss of a tradition that probably did allow new members to get to know everyone.

[violetpretty]

I think the bottom line as far as hazing is concerned is whether something is required. If you MAKE your new members get signatures, then that seems kind of degrading to me. However, I see the reasoning behind the ZTA crown idea, and that it does encourage actives and NMs to meet and become closer. Why not make it a contest to see who can get the most signatures/interviews and explain what you should try to accomplish by meeting with all of these sisters rather than forcing them to do it? Anyone who has taken a psychology class can tell you that people (and other animals) respond better to rewards rather than punishment.

[Senusret I]

The bottom line is what the rules of the organization and the school are.

Hazing does not equal hazing universally.

If your organization forbids certain activities that you feel are necessary to sisterhood/brotherhood, then use the proper channels to reinstate them.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

The bottom line is what the rules of the organization and the school are.

Hazing does not equal hazing universally.

If your organization forbids certain activities that you feel are necessary to sisterhood/brotherhood, then use the proper channels to reinstate them.

Absolutely. I would never encourage members to violate the hazing policies of their school or groups as a way of addressing the policies. This is not a case where civil disobedience is likely to have the outcome you want it to.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Absolutely. I would never encourage members to violate the hazing policies of their school or groups as a way of addressing the policies. This is not a case where civil disobedience is likely to have the outcome you want it to.

Ha! I never thought I would see the phrase "civil disobedience" on a Greek website. But you're right....in this case (in my organization) this civil disobedience leads to suspended and expelled members.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by JessSigKap

I think the bottom line as far as hazing is concerned is whether something is required. If you MAKE your new members get signatures, then that seems kind of degrading to me. However, I see the reasoning behind the ZTA crown idea, and that it does encourage actives and NMs to meet and become closer. Why not make it a contest to see who can get the most signatures/interviews and explain what you should try to accomplish by meeting with all of these sisters rather than forcing them to do it? Anyone who has taken a psychology class can tell you that people (and other animals) respond better to rewards rather than punishment.

Signatures and interviews are only degrading if you make the pledge do something degrading to get them (i.e., clean the toilet, chase you all across campus to meet you etc). Other than that, they're the best way to make sure you meet ALL the sisters, not just the ones who hang out at the house the most or are the most visible. There are chapter sisters of mine who are sweethearts that I'd never have met if I hadn't had to get their signature and interview, simply because they were seniors or not around a lot of the time.

I would hardly call requiring someone to get interviews or sigs of all the members "forcing" them. We had some pledges in my class who didn't get all the interviews - they weren't held back from initiating, but it certainly was remembered in years to come who put forth the most effort, and who hardly even tried. Just like life, you know?

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I would hardly call requiring someone to get interviews or sigs of all the members "forcing" them. We had some pledges in my class who didn't get all the interviews - they weren't held back from initiating, but it certainly was remembered in years to come who put forth the most effort, and who hardly even tried. Just like life, you know?

Like I said, I understand the merits of the activity. What I bolded is something that needs to be explained to the new members as a reason why they should want to meet as many sisters as possible (or make it a contest like I said before), rather than being punishing new members for not getting them (which may or may not be the case in a chapter).

[33girl]

There wasn't a "punishment." But as the years went by...the people who put forth the most effort, and the people who put forth the least, definitely seemed to stay along those lines - i.e. the girl who griped about having to go to pledge meetings was the girl who griped about having to go to active meetings or any other mandatory events. And it WAS explained to them why they needed to do this - to get to know the sisters. I mean, who wouldn't want to get to know their sisters? I guess I don't understand WHY you would have to explain this. Have we really gotten to the point where we have to explain why it's important to know the people you're going to call your sisters the rest of your life?

I also don't know what the difference is between a "contest" and everyone having to do it - in a contest, someone wins, and she'll be praised more than the others, right? Wouldn't that be considered hazing too?

Pledgeship is training for active sisterhood. Sometimes there are extenuating factors (i.e. your parent dies while you're pledging or something) but for the most part - those girls who put forth the most effort as pledges will be the most active and dedicated sisters.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There wasn't a "punishment." But as the years went by...the people who put forth the most effort, and the people who put forth the least, definitely seemed to stay along those lines - i.e. the girl who griped about having to go to pledge meetings was the girl who griped about having to go to active meetings or any other mandatory events.

I also don't know what the difference is between a "contest" and everyone having to do it - in a contest, someone wins, and she'll be praised more than the others, right? Wouldn't that be considered hazing too?

Pledgeship is training for active sisterhood. Sometimes there are extenuating factors (i.e. your parent dies while you're pledging or something) but for the most part - those girls who put forth the most effort as pledges will be the most active and dedicated sisters.

And, I'd add that if you actually set up the requirement that they meet every member and set a high bar for involvement, everyone who really wants to be a member will meet it.

I don't mean that in a fraternity "earning your letters" kind of way. I mean that most people will do what's expected or required, but I'm afraid that many people don't buy into contests.

Instead they just kind of figure out what they have to and do it, rather than seeking a way to shine. I know that if I had been told I needed everyone's signature that I would have gotten them all, but if I had been told that it was a contest for the most, that would have opened up the possibility that I could hang back and wait and see what I really needed to do to be in good standing. Were most people getting half the members? Good enough for me.

I think it's a temperament thing that goes back to having to sell fund raising crap in school. I didn't want to win the wonderful prizes; I just wanted to compel my parents to buy enough that the teacher/sponsor/coach wasn't mad at me.

Sure, this reflects a slacker ethos, but there are a lot of us out there. We'll do what's expected, but if you want more out of us, you're going to have to communicate the requirement/expectation/need to us because being the brightest star in the Milky Way all the time isn't what's motivating us. We don't need to shine within the group, but we'll certainly do what we need to do.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There wasn't a "punishment."

Like I said, I know not all chapters will punish NMs.

Originally Posted by 33girl

But as the years went by...the people who put forth the most effort, and the people who put forth the least, definitely seemed to stay along those lines - i.e. the girl who griped about having to go to pledge meetings was the girl who griped about having to go to active meetings or any other mandatory events.

I agree that the amount of participation from an individual tends to stay the same. Do you think that making an event/activity mandatory during the NM period would help make a NM more active in non-mandatory events after she is initiated?

Originally Posted by 33girl

And it WAS explained to them why they needed to do this - to get to know the sisters. I mean, who wouldn't want to get to know their sisters? I guess I don't understand WHY you would have to explain this. Have we really gotten to the point where we have to explain why it's important to know the people you're going to call your sisters the rest of your life?

I think it is more about the tone that the NM educator sets. Again, I am not arguing about the merits of the activity, but I think there are good and bad ways to do it.

Originally Posted by 33girl

I also don't know what the difference is between a "contest" and everyone having to do it - in a contest, someone wins, and she'll be praised more than the others, right? Wouldn't that be considered hazing too?

I don't think so. What is wrong with rewarding good behavior? Praising one new member for something doesn't cause psychological harm to another new member who doesn't get the praise.

[CarolinaCutie]

I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed reading this thread! I was Membership Director of my chapter the year you went through recruitment. (so let me just apologize for the random nodders... sometimes, you can practice rushing till you're blue in the face and people just don't get it)

And actually, I think I remember meeting you at our informal sessions the semester before that? But anyway, I found your story so charming because I know ALL of the people in your story... I guess UNCG is like that, I can definitely tell exactly who you are talking about!

I'm glad that you found your place in the UNCG Greek system, and thanks for sharing your recruitment experience with us.

[AlwaysSAI]

OMG, CarolinaCutie!!

As soon as I read your post, I read the entire thread to make sure I didn't obviously give someone away. A lot of the people in the story have long since graduated, but seeing as you have to (i think), you would probably remember them.

I can't believe someone would remember me....I didn't think I was a very memorable person. Hahaha, you could look at pictures of me in this thread: http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...=11189&page=80

Going through recruitment again has crossed my mind since I have a lot more leadership experience and just involvement in general, now just because I'm curious as to what the outcome would be. I'll admit, I've become much more outspoken since my sophomore year. But, I've never really entertained the idea and I don't know how I feel about paying the $25 again. Even if I did get a bid, I doubt I would have the time for another org and I'm not willing to betray the vows I took. (I know, I've said it 5 million times, but they are really important to me.)

I can't believe someone would think my story was charming either. I actually thought the experience was traumatic, but whatev.

[MSKKG]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

when i was a pledge, we had wooden crowns that we had to get signed by every initiated sister.

We had a wooden key. I thought it was a good way to meet everyone, but I guess I was just being hazed.

[FSUZeta]

i know...isn't it a shame?

[CarolinaCutie]

Yeah, everyone in the story that I remembered isn't there anymore... and I think that's why I enjoyed it. A stroll down memory lane, haha.

And yes, I do remember you! Not necessarily from recruitment but definitely from informal recruitment