Bowe Bergdahl: Hero or Coward?

[Kevin]

They don't know enough about it to be in a position to be critical. I'm sure their son knew the risks when he signed up for this. This says more about the politicians who sought out the parents of a dead soldier to score political points than anything else.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

We don't leave men behind, we just don't.

Some people are claiming the Obama Administration "jumped the gun" and did not have full clearance for this (some say, uneven) swap.

Are these people arguing the Obama Administration should have waited a bit longer OR not done this at all?

As for the people who are calling Bowe a deserter, these people don't seem to be claiming the U.S. shouldn't have brought him back. They seem more pissed that soldiers died to search for a "deserter" and want a "deserter" brought to justice rather than called a hero.

[dekeguy]

OK, my two cents.

General comment: Let's wait until all the evidence is in and considered before we try and figure this out.

Specific points: We do not leave our people behind. Period.
We do not tolerate desertion in the face of the enemy. Period.

So, was it right to get him back? Of course it was! As to how it played out, let's wait until all the evidence is in.

Was it desertion in the face of the enemy? Or, was it "battle fatigue or shell shock or ptss or what"? Again, Let's wait until all the evidence is in.

Is he a hero? No, a hero does that which is above and beyond the call of duty. He clearly does not fit that definition.

Is he a casualty? In some respects he appears to be, but, let's wait until all the evidence is in.


Peter, LTC, CAV, USAR

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

OK, my two cents.

General comment: Let's wait until all the evidence is in and considered before we try and figure this out.

Specific points: We do not leave our people behind. Period.
We do not tolerate desertion in the face of the enemy. Period.

So, was it right to get him back? Of course it was! As to how it played out, let's wait until all the evidence is in.

Was it desertion in the face of the enemy? Or, was it "battle fatigue or shell shock or ptss or what"? Again, Let's wait until all the evidence is in.

Is he a hero? No, a hero does that which is above and beyond the call of duty. He clearly does not fit that definition.

Is he a casualty? In some respects he appears to be, but, let's wait until all the evidence is in.


Peter, LTC, CAV, USAR

This, every last bit of it.

And of course some Republicans are calling to impeach Obama, which I never understand when they throw that out there. It's like they think if Obama got impeached we'd get a Republican president. It doesn't work that way, we'd get Biden.

[DrPhil]

Dekeguy, is there a substantive difference between "desertion in the face of the enemy" and "battle fatigue or shell shock or ptss or what"?

[dekeguy]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Dekeguy. is there a substantive difference between "desertion in the face of the enemy" and "battle fatigue or shell shock or ptss or what"?

Dr. Phil,

Yes, there is a substantive difference. Battle fatigue and its similar descriptive terms are physical and/or psycological conditions which can and often do render a person incapable of rational or even physical action and make it difficult if not impossible for the 'mens rea' to be established.

Desertion in the face of the enemy, like its near twin 'cowardice in the face of the enemy' are arguably the most serious violations of the UCMJ and constitute capital offences. They qualify for execution if the defendant is found guilty.

The difference in its most basic terms is that one will get you medical treatment and the other could get you a blindfold, a cigarette, and ...

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

...they think if Obama got impeached we'd get a Republican president. It doesn't work that way, we'd get Biden.

I smell a new siggy...

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

OK, my two cents.

General comment: Let's wait until all the evidence is in and considered before we try and figure this out.

Specific points: We do not leave our people behind. Period.
We do not tolerate desertion in the face of the enemy. Period.

So, was it right to get him back? Of course it was! As to how it played out, let's wait until all the evidence is in.

Was it desertion in the face of the enemy? Or, was it "battle fatigue or shell shock or ptss or what"? Again, Let's wait until all the evidence is in.

Is he a hero? No, a hero does that which is above and beyond the call of duty. He clearly does not fit that definition.

Is he a casualty? In some respects he appears to be, but, let's wait until all the evidence is in.

This. And to your first point—Let's wait until all the evidence is in and considered before we try and figure this out—I'd add that we should understand it may be years or more before we have all of the evidence.

[DrPhil]

In the meantime and in between time, continue to share opinions of the information provided.

[DubaiSis]

2 things. First impeachment =/= removal from office.

Second, and someone can correct me on this but I don't think military trials are necessarily for public access. So likely we won't ever know how this really washes out, and we certainly won't have day to day updates of any investigation or trial.

My guesses: since there are no political winners here we will stop hearing about it in a very few days.

He will get transported home to the big party and then immediately to Leavenworth for psych eval. Not passing, he will end up in a hospital for several years and then released.

His dad on the other hand might be tried for treason or insurrection or whatever else they can get. And if he is retired military, Allah help him cuz he's screwed. But there was something about that tweet that sounded inauthentic. Maybe sucking up was part of the deal?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

In the meantime and in between time, continue to share opinions of the information provided.

I have none to share, beyond those thoughts with which I've already noted agreement.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

As for the people who are calling Bowe a deserter, these people don't seem to be claiming the U.S. shouldn't have brought him back. They seem more pissed that soldiers died to search for a "deserter" and want a "deserter" brought to justice rather than called a hero.

This. Having Susan Rice go on the Sunday talk shows and claim he served with honor and distinction. WTF?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I have none to share, beyond those thoughts with which I've already noted agreement.

I was making a general statement.

[ASTalumna06]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bow...trymen-n123846

The Taliban found Pfc. Bowe Bergdahl walking alone, acting abnormally and cursing his countrymen before they captured him in Afghanistan in 2009, two men who were Taliban commanders at the time told NBC News on Thursday.

They said that Afghan locals first informed fighters about the soldier, and then the fighters rushed to capture him.

“Our people at the time couldn’t understand his language, but it was after he was shifted to a safe location, he said he wasn’t happy with his countrymen, but he didn’t intend to convert to Islam or join mujahideen (holy warriors),” one of the commanders said.

The commanders said that Taliban officers first thought it was a trick — perhaps an American soldier sent out alone to spy on the enemy.

“As we never saw their soldier patrolling alone … we would ask him how he managed to walk out of his base,” one of the commanders said. “He would tell us that it was personal issue.”

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

2 things. First impeachment =/= removal from office.

Second, and someone can correct me on this but I don't think military trials are necessarily for public access. So likely we won't ever know how this really washes out, and we certainly won't have day to day updates of any investigation or trial.

My guesses: since there are no political winners here we will stop hearing about it in a very few days.

He will get transported home to the big party and then immediately to Leavenworth for psych eval. Not passing, he will end up in a hospital for several years and then released.

His dad on the other hand might be tried for treason or insurrection or whatever else they can get. And if he is retired military, Allah help him cuz he's screwed. But there was something about that tweet that sounded inauthentic. Maybe sucking up was part of the deal?

What? His dad hasn't done anything rising to the level of treason.