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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


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  #1  
Old 09-27-2017, 12:05 PM
fraternitynik fraternitynik is offline
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Standing Up To Bullies As A Kid Prepared Me To Challenge Hazing as a NM & Initiate

I think there is a lot of confusion around hazing, partly because we (alumni and people who work in Greek Life) do a poor job defining it and because it's difficult to discuss openly given current fraternity/sorority policies and state laws and regulations.

The age-old question, "Is a scavenger hunt hazing?" should have an obvious answer, "no," but sometimes we get so concerned with where things may go that we cut them off at the source.

One thing I think contributes to legitimate hazing (humiliation, assault, battery, coercion, etc.) is hierarchy, and so this was written to reflect on my experiences standing up to bullies as a kid, knowing my worth as a new member and consistently asking the chapter to consider alternatives to treating our new members like house boys.

Feel free to share your thoughts:
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Last edited by Kevin; 09-29-2017 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Link to blog removed. Please do not promote personal blogs here without working something out with John.
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2017, 01:26 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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So that's a loaded as hell question. There are three opinions which matter. 1) your organization; 2) your state and local law enforcement and should something go awry, 3) the FIPG.

Is it hazing if as part of the scavenger hunt, I require you to bring me the charter off of the wall of some sorority house? Probably so since that scavenger hunt is asking you to commit burglary and larceny. If I'm asking you to take a picture of the place the original chapter house stood twenty years ago? Probably not if you're asking state and local law enforcement.

If you're asking the FIPG, which is likely your chapter's liability insurance carrier, hazing is defined as:

Quote:
Any*actions*taken*or*situation*created,*intentiona lly,*whether*on*or*off*fraternity*premises,*to*pro duce*or*that*
causes*mental*or*physical*discomfort,*embarrassmen t,*harassment,*or*ridicule.**Such*activities*may*i nclude*
but*are*not*limited*to*the*following:*use*of*alcoh ol;*paddling*in*any*form;*creation*of*excessive*fa tigue;*
physical*and*psychological*shocks;*quests,*treasur e*hunts,*scavenger*hunts,*road*trips*or*any*other*such*
activities*carried*on*outside*or*inside*of*the*con fines*of*the*chapter*house;*kidnappings,*whether*b y*pledges,*
associate/new*members*or*active*members;*wearing*of*public*a pparel*which*is*conspicuous*and*not*
normally*in*good*taste;*engaging*in*public*stunts* and*buffoonery;*morally*degrading*or*humiliating*g ames*
and*activities;*and*any*other*such*activities*that *are*not*consistent*with*academic*achievement,*fra ternal*law,*
ritual*or*policy,*or*the*regulations*and*policies* of*the*educational*institution,*or*applicable*stat e*law.
So if the FIPG includes scavenger hunts as against policy, then it's very likely against your organization's policy as well and thus, hazing in the opinions of one of the three groups which matter.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:50 PM
fraternitynik fraternitynik is offline
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It was kind of rhetorical - but you're right, it's against most organization's policies.

I was trying to make the point that our classification of "scavenger hunt = hazing" has not necessarily improved our ability to combat hazing; it may simple force chapters not to talk about their scavenger hunts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
So that's a loaded as hell question. There are three opinions which matter. 1) your organization; 2) your state and local law enforcement and should something go awry, 3) the FIPG.

Is it hazing if as part of the scavenger hunt, I require you to bring me the charter off of the wall of some sorority house? Probably so since that scavenger hunt is asking you to commit burglary and larceny. If I'm asking you to take a picture of the place the original chapter house stood twenty years ago? Probably not if you're asking state and local law enforcement.

If you're asking the FIPG, which is likely your chapter's liability insurance carrier, hazing is defined as:



So if the FIPG includes scavenger hunts as against policy, then it's very likely against your organization's policy as well and thus, hazing in the opinions of one of the three groups which matter.
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  #4  
Old 09-27-2017, 05:23 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
So that's a loaded as hell question. There are three opinions which matter. 1) your organization; 2) your state and local law enforcement and should something go awry, 3) the FIPG.
This, though I'd add a 4th opinion that matters: the college or university's.

Meanwhile, what happened to the long-standing GC rule that prohibited, or at least strongly frowned upon, threads created mainly to link to another blog/forum?
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:15 PM
ChioLu ChioLu is offline
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In college, I was always a fan of scavenger hunts because we did it in good fun. But, a few bad apples spoiled the whole barrel.
When actives make new members (or other members) drink alcohol against their will, commit a crime (even if it was petty theft), be humiliated, or the other situations Kevin listed, then it becomes hazing. It's a case of, no one can have scavenger hunts even if it's innocent because some will carry that into actions that are harmful or illegal.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:10 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat View Post
This, though I'd add a 4th opinion that matters: the college or university's.

Meanwhile, what happened to the long-standing GC rule that prohibited, or at least strongly frowned upon, threads created mainly to link to another blog/forum?
1) You're very right that the University's opinion matters. Should have included that. Mah bad.
2) So you're going to do me like that? Going to make me go all ubermod on this poor guy?

MysticCat is right, OP. I'll let this one slide, you had no idea, but GC doesn't exist so you can promote your blog with our more than decent traffic count. That inbound link and the link in your signature will help with your SEO and I'm going to leave that one alone. Some other supermod or mod might think otherwise and take it down, but I'm leaving it for now.

Feel free to work out some sort of deal with the site's owner who can be private messaged. His name is John. Super good guy. I'm sure he'll be more than reasonable with you.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:35 AM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
2) So you're going to do me like that? Going to make me go all ubermod on this poor guy?
Just making sure you're earning that sweet übermod pay.
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  #8  
Old 09-28-2017, 05:35 PM
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DGTess DGTess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChioLu View Post
In college, I was always a fan of scavenger hunts because we did it in good fun. But, a few bad apples spoiled the whole barrel.
When actives make new members (or other members) drink alcohol against their will, commit a crime (even if it was petty theft), be humiliated, or the other situations Kevin listed, then it becomes hazing. It's a case of, no one can have scavenger hunts even if it's innocent because some will carry that into actions that are harmful or illegal.
This breaks my heart. I recognize the reality, but those who *wouldn't* carry it into the harmful or illegal get no chance to show the right thing. We want our collegiate members to be good citizens and role models, but treat them like kindergartners.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:59 PM
DTD Alum DTD Alum is offline
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Look not to mention...if a chapter's WORST form of hazing is scavenger hunt type activities, I'm not sure that's the chapter you have to worry about. For many chapters, their worst forms of hazing are far more dangerous. "Bows and toes", forced drinking, even violence. By splitting hairs over minutiae of the more mundane world of hazing ("is it hazing to require pledges wear an embarrassing t-shirt, oh the horror!"), I think it just ignores the elephant in the room that while somebody's walking around in a Care Bears t-shirt or whatever, somebody else is hanging upside down from the ceiling and having empty beer cans chucked at them.

Sometimes I think the disconnect with nationals and the chapters themselves comes from nationals looking at the trees instead of the forest, if not looking at the twigs, whereas the kids are doing something else entirely. "I don't know if we're putting enough focus on community service in membership selection, how can we help chapters balance community service against grades and involvement when making their decisions?" type discussions, when it's obvious many of the chapters main concern is a desperate race to bid hot blondes and/or "face" guys.
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