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  #61  
Old 11-23-2014, 08:46 PM
Cheerio Cheerio is offline
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Originally Posted by ZetaPhi708.20 View Post
When did they suspend the sororities also?

According to the headline on www.comcast.net they are suspended also.
On the late afternoon NBC National Nightly News tonight, they said UVA fraternities are suspended through the end of the school year. NBC's anchor and reporters said nothing about sororities.
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  #62  
Old 11-23-2014, 08:55 PM
ShadeTree ShadeTree is offline
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Originally Posted by Cheerio View Post
On the late afternoon NBC National Nightly News tonight, they said UVA fraternities are suspended through the end of the school year. NBC's anchor and reporters said nothing about sororities.
Richmond, Va media are reporting that fraternity and sorority social activities are suspended - they can still meet and do not have to vacate their houses. They quoted a university spokesperson.

I think this is a bit hollow, as they are heading into exams and classes begin Jan 12th - three days after suspension is over.
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  #63  
Old 11-23-2014, 09:12 PM
amIblue? amIblue? is offline
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Originally Posted by ShadeTree View Post
Richmond, Va media are reporting that fraternity and sorority social activities are suspended - they can still meet and do not have to vacate their houses. They quoted a university spokesperson.

I think this is a bit hollow, as they are heading into exams and classes begin Jan 12th - three days after suspension is over.
Exactly. It's a non-suspension suspension. It's total bullshit.
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  #64  
Old 11-23-2014, 11:44 PM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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I don't get the sense that either the students or the UVA alums are going to be satisfied with that kind of window dressing.

ETA: Here is a recently released video of a complete interview with Dean Eramo done by a student several weeks before the RS article was published. The alumni are putting it all over the Internet.

At about 10:15 the interview gets very interesting.

http://vimeo.com/user20932862/review...177/b57f3948c3
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Last edited by 1964Alum; 11-24-2014 at 12:12 AM.
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  #65  
Old 11-23-2014, 11:47 PM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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We also have to remember that UVA is one of but 11 universities in the country that have been selected for intense scrutiny for Chapter IX violations.
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  #66  
Old 11-24-2014, 12:37 AM
aoiwen aoiwen is offline
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As a current student at UVA and a member of Greek Life, I would like to share some information with you all.

First off, all fraternal organization agreements between the university and chapters have been suspended until January 9th. Both sorority and fraternities have FOAs meaning that both were suspended at the same time via an email the president shared with students. I have a mixed opinion about this. The University was “damned if they do, damned if they didn’t.” The administration had to do something and they had to do it immediately. Do I think this was the right thing? Absolutely not. Do I have a better idea? Unfortunately not. Both fraternities and sororities function as more than just social organizations. Greek life provides comfort and a safe place for victims of sexual misconduct. For this reason, I am at least thankful that they continued to allow meetings of Greek organizations within the houses. I further do not agree with this move because they are punishing a whole group of individuals for the wrong doing of others. The events described in the RS article happened two years ago and thus there was no immediate threat that the ENTIRE Greek community imposed to anyone.

Second, this is not just a problem at UVA. To say UVA has a problem, that has become very obvious and needs immediate attention. But to say this is only a problem at UVA is very wrong and very far from the truth. This is a problem across all colleges, all genders, and both involved with Greek life and not.

Here are some points that you need to take into consideration before jumping to conclusions:
- Title IX and Due process have hindered the University (all colleges, actually) on responding to these reports of sexual misconduct
- At UVa, there are several routes that students may take in pursuing justice against their attacker: first they can go through the University and the sexual misconduct board AND/OR do so criminally through the police
- When going through the sexual misconduct board: there are HUGE problems with this that are hard to address because of Title IX and due process; basically, if the defendant is found “not guilty” through this process, he/she can then go and sue the survivor for defamation since this is not a court of law. When deciding the best route for survivors, this is tough because they could then face damages even though they are the victim. The benefits of this are that evidence need not be beyond a reasonable doubt, but that it is likely that it happened (basically there is at least a 51% chance the sexual misconduct occurred).
- Survivors can also go through a criminal process – this is often hard and takes a long time; it also requires a lot of evidence; often times survivors don’t seek immediate medical attention and evidence is lost; there need be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt for justice to be served to the defendant
- What I believe is the best route: survivors can file a civil case. Usually civil cases are settled before they ever go to court (>90%). You might think “But what is money going to solve?” In these settlements, survivors can put theoretically any clause in the agreement that he/she finds necessary and since you are settling outside of court, the defendant must agree to it, or it would proceed to court. For example, the survivor could include a clause that the defendant no longer attend said school. The defendant must attend therapy once a week. The defendant owes $X to victim. And more often than not, these civil cases have privacy clauses so you never hear about them, ever. Defendants are often way more willing to settle outside of court if they know they have done wrong because going through the court process is very, very expensive (way more than the cost of settling).
- The next topic of discussion that has been wide at UVA of late is why are students expelled for honor offenses (such as cheating) but no students have ever been expelled for sexual misconduct? In short, honor and sexual misconduct are two separate things since Honor at UVA is an entirely run student organization that punishes people on the basis of beyond a reasonable doubt and the Sexual Misconduct Board is not a student run organization that punishes that it likely happened. Last year UVA's honor system was amended and students now can admit to making an honor offense before going to trial with a 1 year suspension.

I obviously only know such much but it is crucial to see this past the University of Virginia. This is a huge problem everywhere and the changes need to take place within the laws. I’m still learning more and reading more and finding out more from my peers, but above is what I believe to be true.

Here are a few links that you may find interesting:

Interview with Dean Eramo: http://wuvaonline.com/exclusive-inte...exual-assault/

Student Council website in response to the article (IMO, very well constructed): http://www.uvastudentcouncil.com/rollingstone/
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  #67  
Old 11-24-2014, 01:27 AM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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Thank you aoiwen for your perspective as a student at the University of Virginia as well as a member of the Greek community there. As you can see from my moniker, I am an ooooold alumna, but with an entire head full of silver hair now and have been around the block more than a few times!

I doubt that anyone is insensitive to the inherent injustice of having a penalty fall upon an entire group because of the actions of a few. But I have a challenge for yours as well as all Greek Letter Organizations on your campus. Why not use this time for one of reflection to come up with ways all the very fine and talented members of your community can work together to enhance personal safety, especially that of women, on your campus? How can you make your social occasions lawful and safe? How can you sorority women reach out to vulnerable and inexperienced first year women who don't as yet have the comfort of a sisterhood? Yes, I know about the "No Contact" rule prior to recruitment, but surely your panhellenic can come up with some creative programs. How can your fraternity men
clearly communicate to the campus at large that there is nothing manly about sexually assaulting a woman?

I have every confidence that those of you who are Greeks at UVA can exert leadership on your campus and do your part to not only address the problems of the past, and very importantly, set a new agenda.
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  #68  
Old 11-24-2014, 08:42 AM
KDCat KDCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aoiwen View Post
As a current student at UVA and a member of Greek Life, I would like to share some information with you all.

First off, all fraternal organization agreements between the university and chapters have been suspended until January 9th. Both sorority and fraternities have FOAs meaning that both were suspended at the same time via an email the president shared with students. I have a mixed opinion about this. The University was “damned if they do, damned if they didn’t.” The administration had to do something and they had to do it immediately. Do I think this was the right thing? Absolutely not. Do I have a better idea? Unfortunately not. Both fraternities and sororities function as more than just social organizations. Greek life provides comfort and a safe place for victims of sexual misconduct. For this reason, I am at least thankful that they continued to allow meetings of Greek organizations within the houses. I further do not agree with this move because they are punishing a whole group of individuals for the wrong doing of others. The events described in the RS article happened two years ago and thus there was no immediate threat that the ENTIRE Greek community imposed to anyone.

Second, this is not just a problem at UVA. To say UVA has a problem, that has become very obvious and needs immediate attention. But to say this is only a problem at UVA is very wrong and very far from the truth. This is a problem across all colleges, all genders, and both involved with Greek life and not.

Here are some points that you need to take into consideration before jumping to conclusions:
- Title IX and Due process have hindered the University (all colleges, actually) on responding to these reports of sexual misconduct
- At UVa, there are several routes that students may take in pursuing justice against their attacker: first they can go through the University and the sexual misconduct board AND/OR do so criminally through the police
- When going through the sexual misconduct board: there are HUGE problems with this that are hard to address because of Title IX and due process; basically, if the defendant is found “not guilty” through this process, he/she can then go and sue the survivor for defamation since this is not a court of law. When deciding the best route for survivors, this is tough because they could then face damages even though they are the victim. The benefits of this are that evidence need not be beyond a reasonable doubt, but that it is likely that it happened (basically there is at least a 51% chance the sexual misconduct occurred).
- Survivors can also go through a criminal process – this is often hard and takes a long time; it also requires a lot of evidence; often times survivors don’t seek immediate medical attention and evidence is lost; there need be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt for justice to be served to the defendant
- What I believe is the best route: survivors can file a civil case. Usually civil cases are settled before they ever go to court (>90%). You might think “But what is money going to solve?” In these settlements, survivors can put theoretically any clause in the agreement that he/she finds necessary and since you are settling outside of court, the defendant must agree to it, or it would proceed to court. For example, the survivor could include a clause that the defendant no longer attend said school. The defendant must attend therapy once a week. The defendant owes $X to victim. And more often than not, these civil cases have privacy clauses so you never hear about them, ever. Defendants are often way more willing to settle outside of court if they know they have done wrong because going through the court process is very, very expensive (way more than the cost of settling).
- The next topic of discussion that has been wide at UVA of late is why are students expelled for honor offenses (such as cheating) but no students have ever been expelled for sexual misconduct? In short, honor and sexual misconduct are two separate things since Honor at UVA is an entirely run student organization that punishes people on the basis of beyond a reasonable doubt and the Sexual Misconduct Board is not a student run organization that punishes that it likely happened. Last year UVA's honor system was amended and students now can admit to making an honor offense before going to trial with a 1 year suspension.

I obviously only know such much but it is crucial to see this past the University of Virginia. This is a huge problem everywhere and the changes need to take place within the laws. I’m still learning more and reading more and finding out more from my peers, but above is what I believe to be true.

Here are a few links that you may find interesting:

Interview with Dean Eramo: http://wuvaonline.com/exclusive-inte...exual-assault/

Student Council website in response to the article (IMO, very well constructed): http://www.uvastudentcouncil.com/rollingstone/
Respectfully, your focus on the law is entirely the wrong focus. I have advised KD chapters at two schools. I attended 2 schools as an undergraduate and 3 as a graduate student. Rape is a problem in our society and it's a problem on every campus. Other campuses handle their problem, though. UVa doesn't. That allows a culture in which extremely egregious acts happen, because everyone knows that nothing will happen to the rapists.

The type of things that are going at University of Virginia where rapists are protected by the university administration is not something that happens at most schools. You have a problem with your administration that is similar to what happened at Penn State or within the Catholic Church.

Other universities don't repeatedly destroy or alter medical records to protect rapists.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/25753826/...isconduct-case

http://www.wendymurphylaw.com/elite-...tle-of-rape-u/

Other universities don't actively discourage the filing of complaints.
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-...laints-2014-11

Last edited by KDCat; 11-24-2014 at 08:45 AM.
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  #69  
Old 11-24-2014, 09:19 AM
cinder1965 cinder1965 is offline
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Originally Posted by KDCat View Post
Respectfully, your focus on the law is entirely the wrong focus. I have advised KD chapters at two schools. I attended 2 schools as an undergraduate and 3 as a graduate student. Rape is a problem in our society and it's a problem on every campus. Other campuses handle their problem, though. UVa doesn't. That allows a culture in which extremely egregious acts happen, because everyone knows that nothing will happen to the rapists.

The type of things that are going at University of Virginia where rapists are protected by the university administration is not something that happens at most schools. You have a problem with your administration that is similar to what happened at Penn State or within the Catholic Church.

Other universities don't repeatedly destroy or alter medical records to protect rapists.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/25753826/...isconduct-case

http://www.wendymurphylaw.com/elite-...tle-of-rape-u/

Other universities don't actively discourage the filing of complaints.
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-...laints-2014-11

THIS. It IS a UVA problem. Do other campuses have this issue to deal with? Yes, of course. But it seems there is a lot of credible evidence that this university has systematically looked the other way and, in fact, as this poster points out has not helped the victims get justice.

I was at the chapter house yesterday that I advise and couldn't stop thinking about that article as I saw the girls. I hope so much that if any of our girls face this that they come to us as advisors. You bet your sweet ass I will personally go after those arrogant frat boys if they dare do this to one of our girls.

Its personal. I have a dear friend who was sexually assaulted on a college campus (by athletes who thought they, too, were above the law).

Let me throw more fuel on this disgusting fire. I wonder how UVA would have handled this matter had it been members of Alpha Phi Alpha or Omega Psi Phi involved with this? My guess is there would be members handcuffed and sitting in jail right now.

Over. This. No More Excuses.
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Last edited by cinder1965; 11-24-2014 at 12:08 PM.
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  #70  
Old 11-24-2014, 09:36 AM
amIblue? amIblue? is offline
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What aoiwen needs to realize is that GC posters are supporters and cheerleaders of Greek Life. We are not the anti-Greek members of the public. If you find the need to defend the manner in which UVA mishandles allegations of rape, then you need to consider how egregious the circumstances are. I've said it before, but it is not up to any university to adjudicate any felony. There should be no such thing as a sexual misconduct board because these issues need to be handled by the legal system.
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  #71  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:16 AM
Nanners52674 Nanners52674 is offline
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It's a UVA problem and your argument is similar to the whole "well everyone was speeding so why am I getting a ticket?"

It's a lot like the you can't change anyone else you can only change yourself. UVA needs to stop focusing on making comparisons to other schools and work on their own problem.
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  #72  
Old 11-24-2014, 11:11 AM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Originally Posted by amIblue? View Post
these issues need to be handled by the legal system.
And yet, we all know the legal system doesn't handle them either.

ETA: This article is in the context of the Canadian justice system, but it's pretty much the same thing as in the U.S.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sandy-g...b_6059124.html
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  #73  
Old 11-24-2014, 11:21 AM
PinkSkyAtNight PinkSkyAtNight is offline
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Originally Posted by aoiwen View Post
Greek life provides comfort and a safe place for victims of sexual misconduct.
I truly, honestly wish this statement were 100% true for all sororities. However, in my experience, on two occasions I saw sorority sisters comfort each other after sexual assault. However when the mention of going forward to any authority was mentioned, the discussion immediately became about potential fallout -- particularly in one instance where it involved a "popular" fraternity. What is described in that article sounds like a culture that was similar to my campus.

Ten years later, I have deep regret and shame that I didn't speak up and encourage one of my friends to pursue charges. I didn't discourage her, but rather, I was just extremely passive.

I've been thinking a lot about this article this week, and it made me take a long, hard look at how I may have contributed to this kind of problem, just by simply being unresponsive. That in itself can send a message to a victim that they should remain silent.

It would be really idealistic and almost naive to think all sorority sisters boldly stand up for their sisters when rape happens, especially when it involves fraternities. I'm not pointing fingers, I just think this is a serious call to action for everyone, everywhere.

Last edited by PinkSkyAtNight; 11-24-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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  #74  
Old 11-24-2014, 11:37 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by 1964Alum View Post
How can you sorority women reach out to vulnerable and inexperienced first year women who don't as yet have the comfort of a sisterhood? Yes, I know about the "No Contact" rule prior to recruitment, but surely your panhellenic can come up with some creative programs.
NPC spearheading a fundraising effort for a rape crisis center or to bring more counselors to the existing structure - yes, wonderful.

NPC sisters serving as peer counselors for something as delicate as this - potentially super dicey.

And no contact rules shouldn't be in place for a whole semester. That completely defeats the purpose of deferred rush. Freshman women should be getting to know sorority members as friends.
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  #75  
Old 11-24-2014, 11:42 AM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Originally Posted by PinkSkyAtNight View Post
I truly, honestly wish this statement were 100% true for all sororities. However, in my experience, on two occasions I saw sorority sisters comfort each other after sexual assault. However when the mention of going forward to any authority was mentioned, the discussion immediately became about potential fallout -- particularly in one instance where it involved a "popular" fraternity. What is described in that article sounds like a culture that was similar to my campus.

Ten years later, I have deep regret and shame that I didn't speak up and encourage one of my friends to pursue charges. I didn't discourage her, but rather, I was just extremely passive.

I've been thinking a lot about this article this week, and it made me take a long, hard look at how I may have contributed to this kind of problem, just by simply being unresponsive. That in itself can send a message to a victim that they should remain silent.

It would be really idealistic and almost naive to think all sorority sisters boldly stand up for their sisters when rape happens, especially when it involves fraternities. I'm not pointing fingers, I just think this is a serious call to action for everyone, everywhere.
This is a great post.
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