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  #31  
Old 11-22-2014, 12:01 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDCat View Post
“Men always say that as the defining compliment, don’t they? She’s a cool girl. . . .

Men actually think this girl exists. . . . Oh, and if you’re not a Cool Girl, I beg you not to believe that your man doesn’t want the Cool Girl. It may be a slightly different version – maybe he’s a vegetarian, so Cool Girl loves seitan and is great with dogs; or maybe he’s a hipster artist, so Cool Girl is a tattooed, bespectacled nerd who loves comics. There are variations to the window dressing, but believe me, he wants Cool Girl, who is basically the girl who likes every fucking thing he likes and doesn’t ever complain."

― Gillian Flynn, Gone Girl
Sure, men "always" say that.

Yes, I know it's fiction—and I haven't read the book so I admit I don't know the context of the quoted portion or the narrative reliability of it—but without context it seems to me like it's just trading a form of sexual objectification for a massive stereotype.
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  #32  
Old 11-22-2014, 12:36 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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That quote sounds like a bitter woman with no personality who pushed her friends aside for a man (and will eventually push her husband aside for her children) and can't believe she got dumped. Is that the context, or is that a woman we're supposed to root for? Because if so ugh.
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  #33  
Old 11-22-2014, 12:39 PM
pinksequins pinksequins is offline
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Actually, I think KDCat makes a good point. Those men exist, and you don't have to be bitter. In some industries, this type of juvenile objectification is more pronounced, and if you object, you will be passed over or given the least desirable assignments. Sure, it's fiction and accordingly embellisjed, but there is a kernel of truth there.

Last edited by pinksequins; 11-22-2014 at 12:45 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-22-2014, 01:00 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Intimating that women must be fake because they act in a way that men find pleasing is kind of ridiculous, even in fiction.
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  #35  
Old 11-22-2014, 01:22 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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No, that quote isn't saying a woman must be fake if she is acting in a way a man finds pleasing. The quote is saying there is pressure for a (heterosexual) woman to be perfect in pleasing a (heterosexual) man.

I agree with the foundation of that quote. Everyday I hear girls and women boast about being "tomboys"/"just one of the guys" and attempt to place themselves in all-male environments to prove they are "different than other women". The need to do that portrays OTHER women as overly emotional, catty, silly, gossipy, bickering, unable to have fun, uninterested in sports or other activities, and only concerned with falling in love and all that entails. I've even had women tell me they can't stand other women because of these traits they attribute to other women. I tell these women that they need to meet the women who also claim to be "different than other women". Then all these "different than other women" can fight it out for the "Different Woman Crown". Street Fighter style.

This also translates to how many of these women interact with men in romantic relationships. Always feeling the need to prove they are "different" so they won't scare a man away.

This shocks my feminist sensibilities and is the opposite end of the patriarchy and sexism scale (the opposite end is women being pressured to be "traditional prissy princess"). Just another way to encourage women to conform to the male-standard. It prevents people from just being themselves. If a woman farts, plays video games, has male friends, and loves sports it should be because that's what she wants to do. It shouldn't be because she feels the need to prove herself "cool enough" and above other women. It shouldn't mean she is void of expressing negative emotions from fear of being branded "just another emotional woman."

I think all of this factors into campus climates. That includes the fraternity that is considered awesome for getting the women. It also includes "the cool sorority" whose coolness is defined by how the fraternity men see them, sometimes sexually but mostly in terms of being fun to platonically be around. That happens in the NPHC so I don't doubt it happens in other councils and conferences.

Last edited by DrPhil; 11-22-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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  #36  
Old 11-22-2014, 02:01 PM
pinksequins pinksequins is offline
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33Girl, I disagree.
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  #37  
Old 11-22-2014, 03:10 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
If a woman farts, plays video games, has male friends, and loves sports it should be because that's what she wants to do.
That's what I meant I disagreed with in the quote - assuming that no woman really likes those things and she's putting on a show to act "cool."

Not only that, I think it's kind of denigrating to assume that men (of all ages) can't see through bullshit.
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2014, 03:22 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
That's what I meant I disagreed with in the quote - assuming that no woman really likes those things and she's putting on a show to act "cool."
I don't think that is the full point of the quote.

Some women are genuine and some women are perpetrating. Yet even the women who genuinely do those things (not because of a man) should not feel obligated to subscribe to this: "Cool Girls never get angry; they only smile in a chagrined, loving manner and let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, shit on me, I don’t mind, I’m the Cool Girl."

I don't believe all men define "cool woman" in this manner. I do believe most men want some version.

Last edited by DrPhil; 11-22-2014 at 03:39 PM.
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  #39  
Old 11-22-2014, 04:19 PM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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http://wtvr.com/2014/11/22/universit...omment-page-1/

http://wtvr.com/2014/11/21/slut-walk...y-of-virginia/
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Last edited by 1964Alum; 11-22-2014 at 04:24 PM.
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  #40  
Old 11-22-2014, 04:34 PM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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Hopefully something constructive will come of this.

Excerpted:

Inter-Fraternity Council President Tommy Reid, a fourth-year College student, issued a statement shortly after Sullivan’s email. In it, he emphasized a mission of action by fraternities to act as primary agents for change in sexual assault.
“This is a temporary, short-term action that will ultimately benefit our University and our community in the long-term, not an impulsive move to blame rape on fraternities,” he said in an email. “The temporary suspension grants our fraternity system time to develop substantive and actionable solutions for the future.”
Reid said sexual assault was not just a fraternity problem, but a University-wide problem.
“At times, our organizations are placed with a disproportionate share of the blame for sexual misconduct,” he said. “The IFC recognizes that sexual assault is a problem in fraternities; we also recognize that we can be catalysts for the solution. Banning fraternities will not solve the complicated problem of rape in our society.”


http://www.cavalierdaily.com/section/news
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  #41  
Old 11-22-2014, 05:31 PM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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And from the ladies. I am very happy to see them step up to the plate and participate in finding solutions to this very serious problem on the UVA campus. I am eager to see what proposals they come up with.

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article...lar-of-support
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  #42  
Old 11-22-2014, 05:54 PM
exlurker exlurker is offline
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Also:

Very much in line with the links 1964alum posted, here's the Statement from the president of UVA, posted by the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...3ef_story.html

Two small excerpts from ^^:
“Beginning immediately, I am suspending all fraternal organizations and associated social activities until January 9th . . . . “

“On Tuesday, the Board of Visitors will meet to discuss the University’s policies and procedures regarding sexual assault as well as the specific, recent allegations.”
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  #43  
Old 11-22-2014, 06:09 PM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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This is not going to go away. Our governor and both US senators have expressed outrage over what has been going on there for years and years. One of our senators has three college aged daughters who are infuriated. Alumni of the university have gotten involved, and one has established a legal defense fund for any rape victim.

Our daughter is a professor at UVA and reports that the faculty are also joining the effort to put an end to this kind of criminal behavior on campus. While UVA is not my alma mater, I am a 13th generation Virginian with deep roots in the Old Dominion.

Hopefully UVA can create a model that is both effective and which can serve as a template for other colleges and universities where campus rape is rampant.
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  #44  
Old 11-22-2014, 10:44 PM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1964Alum View Post
One of our senators has three college aged daughters who are infuriated.
I sure hope your senator is able to see why this is a problem without having college-aged daughters.
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  #45  
Old 11-22-2014, 10:53 PM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby View Post
I sure hope your senator is able to see why this is a problem without having college-aged daughters.
Of course he would. He's actually a very decent man. But I'm happy that his daughters are bringing pressure to bear on him.

Bill he introduced: http://www.warner.senate.gov/public/...b-385a02e2bceb

The bill: http://www.scribd.com/doc/235449362/CASA-One-Pager
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Last edited by 1964Alum; 11-22-2014 at 11:03 PM. Reason: additional information.
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