[navane]

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
because men think more logically than women and all sorority girls are the girly-girl type?

Not so sure how I feel about THAT.

HotDamn, nowhere in my post did I state that I believe men think more logically. On the contrary, I mused aloud about whether I should smack my boyfriend for saying something which implied that. It was a tounge-in-cheek comment. Similarly, nowhere did I state that "ALL sorority girls are the girly-girl type". What I very clearly said was that I have never been the girly-girl type. That's me, one person. The point being that, all my life, I never seemed to be on the same wavelength as the grand majority of my [girl] friends, classmates and so on.

Please do not put words in my mouth.

This I disagree with. We have Rho Chis for a reason -- they are women who are older, have been through the sorority experience, and, now that they've had the chance to get to know the NPC from the other side, they are also getting to know the PNMs in a way the sororities don't during rush.

Actually, my friend from high school went through spring informal recruitment at a nearby university and received a bid. That fall she was a Rho Chi - she had never been on the opposite side. Plus, my own personal experience with the Rho Chi assigned to me at my uni was that she was grossly unskilled and that she lacked understanding and people skills. Unfortunately, it seems like not all campuses or occassions fit your definition. Though, I will address Rho Chis again further down.

As for treating them like children -- some 1st semester freshmen are 17 years old. So, legally, they ARE children. But more importantly, there is a LOT that goes on in your head and heart during the next four years of college. Please don't tell me there's no difference between the decisions of a 17 or 18 year old and the decisions of a 21 or 22 year old. A new freshman has been on campus for as little as a week, away from her parents, possibly for the first time, possibly in a new state, possibly with NO friends -- and you want her to make informed, mature decisions about a greek system she may know NOTHING about in a new environment where she knows she's been judged based on 10 minute parties all week long?

Oh my! Just because a very small percentage of students are short of their 18th birthday, that does not mean we should treat them like children because a couple of them are so on a technicality.

I guess I just give a lot more credit to freshmen than you do. Of course they lack experience, that's obvious. But where you claim that I'm calling Rho Chis bullies and dictators, I can claim that you're calling freshmen imbiciles who need to be coddled because they're too young to make "big girl" decisions. I know *I* wasn't like that as a freshman....I was quite sharp.

Look, maybe my viewpoint stems from that fact I am a Student Affairs Professional and that "Student Transition and Retention" is my specialty. For years I worked with thousands of freshmen and transfer students at the orientation department for the second largest university in California which has 33,000+ students. I have found in my own personal experience that, even on a huge campus where they have every opportunity to be overwhelmed, freshmen aren't as naive and dumb as people sometimes think they are.

You ask if I believe that a freshman, who has just arrived on campus and knows no one, can make an informed, mature decision. My answer is an emphatic YES.

I realized just now how interesting it is that we got on this topic - I am currently writing a dissertation for my MEd in Counselling. The topic of my research? Self-efficacy and the first year university student. Bascially, that means, "an examination of a freshman's belief that s/he is capable and prepared to handle particular tasks."

I just want to repeat something you said here:

and you want her to make informed, mature decisions about a greek system she may know NOTHING about in a new environment where she knows she's been judged based on 10 minute parties all week long?

How about if we look at this conversely? How can a sorority make informed decisions on a PNM in an environment when she's been judged on 10 minute parties all week? I should think, in this respect, it's easier for a PNM to judge 8 sororities as opposed to chapters trying to remember 1000 PNMs.

I'm sorry, but I'm a HUGE fan of PX counseling. At my school the PXes were very throughly considered -- we always had about ten apply from each sorority, and took only two or three -- and the girls were wholeheartedly devoted to making sure the PNMs found their "home." Why else would they cut off all affiliation with their sisters for months on end?

I don't have anything against Rho Chis. Barring the odd occurance like the ones I mentioned, I think they're a great idea. When done right, they're a very useful tool. How can I be against "counselling" when that's what I do for a living??

Yikes, it seems like no one is catching on here that what I'm trying to convey. Well, actually, I've received PMs (that's plural, as in, more than one) from people telling me that they understand and agree with what I've been writing here - I guess they just don't feel comfortable saying so in public. Nonetheless, I truly want you and the others (like 33girl, S&S, and so on...) to understand what I'm trying to say.

I am not saying that NPC rush is a horrifying experience because the Rho Chi slavemasters are trying to control the minds of the PNMs. What I have been trying to impress upon you all is that I sometimes think that FEMALE BEHAVIOUR sometimes finds an outlet to express itself full-force to PNMs when they are struggling with their recruitment. What I believe to be "female behaviour" in this instance entails either intentionally or unintentionally playing on another person's emotions or concerns and trying to convince them of making a decision against the person's own best judgement. The advice-giver does this either because she think she knows better or because she simply wants to quell any bad feelings and "make it all better". I see it here on GC all the time when people post to PNMs who are faced with tough decisions. It's my position that this isn't always the best thing to do. That's the question James posed to us - why in the world should a lady be expected to join a house she didn't want?

As one of the people who PM'd me said, it's in the same vein as saying, "You'll end up in the house you were meant to". A PNM is left thinking "I was meant to end up in a house I really dislike and can never see myself in?"

I'm not saying they never made mistakes. I'm saying they were hardly the bullying, dictorial entities you seem to be describing, taking control over the 17 year old PNMs and forcing them at gunpoint into the arms of XYZ who's been struggling the last two years.

Excuse me, but I did not say that. It's not fair to overexaggerate my points like that when I am making an honest effort to have a real, thoughtful discussion.

and btw: I think a LOT of PNMs are interested in a struggling house

And that's why I was sure to clarify that I am not necessarily talking about struggling chapters when talking about the houses that PNMs are disappointed to see on their invite list.

Right, well, I guess I've said all I can say about this. Heh...who am I kidding, I could probably write another 40-page essay. At any rate, I suppose we'll just have to agree that we see things differently.

.....Kelly