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-   -   Chico State fraternity members sentenced after cutting down 32 trees at national (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=236768)

PKT4LIFE 10-17-2017 10:59 PM

Chico State fraternity members sentenced after cutting down 32 trees at national
 
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...t-12285353.php

sigmadiva 10-18-2017 09:52 AM

Where were the chapter advisers when all of this was happening?

Kevin 10-18-2017 02:18 PM

At home with their families most likely. In my experience, it would be bizarre for an alum adviser to go on a camping trip with active brothers. Also, consider the sort of liability some 40-50 year old adviser might take on if he accompanied a large group of 18-22 year olds and their dates to a campsite where large quantities of alcohol were intended to be consumed.

sigmadiva 10-18-2017 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2445083)
At home with their families most likely. In my experience, it would be bizarre for an alum adviser to go on a camping trip with active brothers. Also, consider the sort of liability some 40-50 year old adviser might take on if he accompanied a large group of 18-22 year olds and their dates to a campsite where large quantities of alcohol were intended to be consumed.

If it's just a bunch of guys camping, who just so happen to in a fraternity together, that's one thing.

If this was a sanctioned fraternity event, then an adviser should be there to prevent stuff like this from happening.

In SGR, the undergraduate chapter adviser is expected to be physically present at all sanctioned chapter events.

To the bold: then maybe we won't have pledges dying and chapters getting fined like this one if a responsible adult is present.

If it's just a bunch of guys who want to hang out, then the fraternity should not be liable.

PhilTau 10-18-2017 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2445083)
At home with their families most likely. In my experience, it would be bizarre for an alum adviser to go on a camping trip with active brothers.

Yes! They are adults (not a boy scout troop) and are responsible for their actions.

However, they did say it was an initiation ceremony and it would not be considered unusual for alumni to attend, participate in or conduct such an event - if it were in fact an actual official initiation ritual of the fraternity - which I am betting that this particular outdoor tree cutting event was not.

Not saying that this was what was going on, but cutting down trees in the middle of nowhere is reminiscent of what used to be called a pledge rally.

ASTalumna06 10-18-2017 03:00 PM

Just... why?

They went into the woods all "ax-happy" and randomly started cutting down trees? Why is this even a thing?

PhilTau 10-18-2017 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2445095)
Just... why?

They went into the woods all "ax-happy" and randomly started cutting down trees? Why is this even a thing?


The article says the trees where nailed together in the shape of an "M". Not going try to guess what this was about.

In the old days, to have a pledge rally - had to be a bonfire.

ASTalumna06 10-18-2017 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilTau (Post 2445104)
The article says the trees where nailed together in the shape of an "M". Not going try to guess what this was about.

In the old days, to have a pledge rally - had to be a bonfire.

A bonfire is one thing. But 32 trees? And it seems that they left plenty of unused wooden pallets at the campsite - why not burn those?

And the M was created by nails in a tree:

Quote:

One photo showed nails hammered into a cut down tree in the shape of the letter "M."
The pictures show the same. Still, it doesn't make what they did sound any better/worse.

I guess it also amazes me that the one guy willingly gave up the name of their fraternity to a stranger and openly advertised that they were performing an "initiation ceremony".

PhilTau 10-18-2017 07:29 PM

Don't get me wrong. I think cutting down the tress was wrong and stupid and, this case, criminal.

And to be clear, I believe that the bonfire hazing rally is a relic of the past and should stay in the past.

Kevin 10-18-2017 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigmadiva (Post 2445086)
If this was a sanctioned fraternity event, then an adviser should be there to prevent stuff like this from happening.

Over in my lane, this is not a requirement. I do make myself available for certain events, I will have a beer with actives once a year at formal, but the vast majority of my work is dealing directly with the executive officers. If this was an initiation event, I'd probably show up for the actual ceremony and then leave. If they were doing it a considerable distance from my home, I probably wouldn't go and that would be fine and expected.

Quote:

In SGR, the undergraduate chapter adviser is expected to be physically present at all sanctioned chapter events.
I can't speak for all NIC groups, but this is not the requirement with mine. I'm sure I'd be welcome at whatever social event.

Quote:

To the bold: then maybe we won't have pledges dying and chapters getting fined like this one if a responsible adult is present.

If it's just a bunch of guys who want to hang out, then the fraternity should not be liable.
That's a decision each chapter has to make. And frankly, I am not sold on the notion that all alumni are always a good thing. If chapters are trying to eliminate bad practices from the chapter's culture, alumni can be a horrible influence. And my members are adults. Some of them have even been to war. They don't need a babysitter.

Occasionally, 18-22 year olds will do stupid things and having people there to hold their hands and protect them isn't necessarily a good thing. If members aren't allowed to make mistakes, how will they learn not to make them? Advisers need to be involved enough to the point where when they sign their risk management affidavits (is that a thing elsewhere?) that they know that what they are signing is true.

Kevin 10-18-2017 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilTau (Post 2445118)
Don't get me wrong. I think cutting down the tress was wrong and stupid and, this case, criminal.

And to be clear, I believe that the bonfire hazing rally is a relic of the past and should stay in the past.

And if this was a bonfire rally, then these guys look mega plus extra super dumb as live trees make incredibly shitty firewood.

naraht 10-18-2017 10:26 PM

Wrong and Stupid, but at least it wasn't Suguaro Cactuses. Part of how much I stress over this is how long before Nature recovers and given where this is (north of Sacramento), I'm not quite as stressed as I'd be otherwise.

I'm not that far from Washington DC and deal with people from Southern Utah. In Southern Utah, you grow trees by planting them watering and caring for them. In Washington DC, you grow trees by failing to mow the area in time. (I've got a 25 foot tall tree in my front yard because the Sapling was behind the Azaleas...

sigmadiva 10-18-2017 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2445120)
Over in my lane, this is not a requirement. I do make myself available for certain events, I will have a beer with actives once a year at formal, but the vast majority of my work is dealing directly with the executive officers. If this was an initiation event, I'd probably show up for the actual ceremony and then leave. If they were doing it a considerable distance from my home, I probably wouldn't go and that would be fine and expected.



I can't speak for all NIC groups, but this is not the requirement with mine. I'm sure I'd be welcome at whatever social event.



That's a decision each chapter has to make. And frankly, I am not sold on the notion that all alumni are always a good thing. If chapters are trying to eliminate bad practices from the chapter's culture, alumni can be a horrible influence. And my members are adults. Some of them have even been to war. They don't need a babysitter.

Occasionally, 18-22 year olds will do stupid things and having people there to hold their hands and protect them isn't necessarily a good thing. If members aren't allowed to make mistakes, how will they learn not to make them? Advisers need to be involved enough to the point where when they sign their risk management affidavits (is that a thing elsewhere?) that they know that what they are signing is true.

True on all points. But it stands to reason that these adults are committing acts that reflect negatively on the fraternity, and Greek Life in general.

I can state the same thing you said about my org - just substitute women for men and sorority for fraternity.

We were having serious problems in my sorority with undergrad behavior. It finally came down a choice of we either corral the undergrads or get sued out of existence.


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