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-   -   What to tell overconfident PNMs (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=87932)

dgdramadawg 06-15-2007 06:17 PM

What to tell overconfident PNMs
 
I know that every year we talk about PNMs who:
- are only interested in the biggest/"best" houses on campus
- go into recruitment with their hearts set on specific houses for whatever reasons (legacy, campus rep, friends, etc.)
- think because they are pretty and smart and were popular in high school they are guaranteed success
- think because they have friends in chapters they will be guaranteed bids

It seems like we can all agree that it's ridiculous for a PNM to go into a competitive recruitment with any combination of these attitudes. A PNM who goes in overconfident can end up dropping out if she's not happy with her invites or can end up dissatisfied with where she ends up simply because it's not the house she was initially interested in. Last year, two PNMs from my rec group ended up dropping out of recruitment simply because it didn't end up they way they expected, and I know I wasn't the only one who saw this happen.

What are some things that y'all do to help PNMs go into competitive recruitments with confidence, but also with realistic expectations?

SWTXBelle 06-15-2007 06:33 PM

The first thing I'd do is direct them to read some recruitment stories here on good ol GC.

33girl 06-15-2007 06:52 PM

YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE.
 
Tell them to talk to their older sister (if she had a similar social status in high school) or other women she knows who have gone through similar situations.

FSUZeta 06-15-2007 07:30 PM

unfortunately, for girls like that, i don't if anything one says will be listened to. they may just have to learn it the hard way.

KSUViolet06 06-15-2007 10:57 PM

Some PNMs are overconfident because they misunderstand how recruitment works. I've had girls tell me that recruitment was "like sorority shopping" and they just "pick the ones they want." Not true.They don't get the mutual selection part of the process. Those girls who think like that are in for a rude awakening.

You aren't just "looking for a sorority", the sororities are also looking for quality sisters (among hundreds of equally qualified girls).

Also, to a girl who only wants the "top sorority", my advice to her is to consider all sororities fairly because quite frankly the top one might not want her. The so-called top groups only have X number of spots. Also, those girls should ask themselves "What if the sorority only wanted what they considered to be the 'top PNMs'?"

If all else fails, tell her: "Get over yourself, this is *insert competitive school here* everybody is just as *insert adjective here* as you are."






Dionysus 06-15-2007 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1467587)
Tell them to talk to their older sister (if she had a similar social status in high school) or other women she knows who have gone through similar situations.

Dammit, S! I was going to say the same thing. Fight Club rocks!

tinydancer 06-15-2007 11:36 PM

33girl, I don't remember saying that line that you quoted, but damn, that was one of my better ones!

cuteASAbug 06-15-2007 11:42 PM

If they don't want to listen, don't tell them anything. Everyone's got to grow up sometime.

fishie 06-16-2007 12:04 AM

When I went through recruitment, I heard another PNM tell an overconfident girl to not "be so cocky...[because] you aren't guaranteed a bid from any of the houses."

adpiucf 06-16-2007 12:09 AM

The best you can offer is advice into how the process works, how to be successful and what to expect.

However, people have a way of hearing what they want to hear. Eventually, they learn.

Kind of like the auditions rounds on American Idol. :)

dgdramadawg 06-16-2007 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adpiucf (Post 1467722)
Kind of like the auditions rounds on American Idol. :)

And the pretty, smart, popular, sweet, awesome, and/or otherwise fabulous PNMs who get heavily cut after round one or two are the people who are actually good who don't make it past the production assistants to see Randy, Paula, and Simon. ;)

adrie435 06-20-2007 10:25 AM

I was one of those over-confident PNM's during recruitment and thinking back on it now, I really wish my PX had sat me down and just been honest with us about our chances. No one ever told us much about the fact that a lot of girls don't end up where they want. They kept telling us it was a mutual selection process and giving us the numbers of women placed every year (and never really making sure we realized that WE could be one of those 2% not placed rather than the 98% who got bids)

The moment that my group of friends and I first realized that sometimes it doesnt happen perfectly is actually when one of us got that dreaded phone call after preference parties to let her know she had not recieved a bid after suiciding. That was when I finally realized that the house I wanted may not actually want me enough to put me on their top list and I prepared myself to recieve a bid from a house I wasn't too thrilled about (even if I was confident, I wasn't stupid--so I kept all the houses I would be 'comfortable' joining even if they didn't dazzle me at recruitment). Thank God I did that because I did get that bid from my 'not-top house' and I ended up being President 2 years later, served on our campus Panhel, and had a Greek experience 10x better and more successful than any other girl who went through rush with me that semester.

I could have reached that point a lot earlier and taken a little less time to get used to the idea that they may love me, but they just couldn't take me if only our PX's would have been a little more realistic and maybe even harsh with us from the start. I feel like there are so many unrealistic PNM's out there that could make it through recruitment but no one takes the time to knock them down from that high horse before they get cut hard and drop out completely. (Keep in mind I go to a northern school so it's not the "I've been bred for this chapter" mentality, it's the "I was popular in high school and know 50 members of XYZ" one).

33girl 06-20-2007 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinydancer (Post 1467687)
33girl, I don't remember saying that line that you quoted, but damn, that was one of my better ones!

It was in the Mary Kay thread that got bumped :)

violetpretty 06-20-2007 12:10 PM

Keeping an open mind is very important. An open mind does not mean being open to anything but the "bottom" 2 chapters if your school has 18 chapters. It means giving EVERY chapter a chance at EVERY round you attend.

Even if a school has high placement rates, those rates don't mean that those PNMs placed all got their first choice from the beginning of recruitment (in fact most PNMs . Playing by the rules, good grades, quality recs, conversing well, a polished appearance will help you get placed, but know that at some schools, some women who would make outstanding members and do all of these things still slip through the cracks and get released from recruitment.

carnation 06-20-2007 12:26 PM

Any overconfident PNMs should read "They're Having a Blast!" (a thread about an LSU rush) or read NUBlue&Blue's comments about UGa rush and the fabulous girls from her daughter's high school who rushed there last year.

ADPi Conniebama 06-20-2007 12:45 PM

Seems to me that it depends on the school (or type of school) that the pnm is attending. (using Alabama schools \/)

If she is going to BAMA then I would tell her to KEEP AN OPEN MIND because their are ALOT of GREAT HOUSES and her # 1 is just as involed and wins stuff and is just as cute as her # 4 or #6 for that matter.

If she is going to UNA or Troy or whatever and, she IS as great as she thinks she is, then she will more then likely get what she wants, anyway. (unless she is a B$%&@^% or acts like one in the rooms) So, don't worry about her.

If she isn't so great then have a good long talk with her like everyone said before.

KSUViolet06 06-20-2007 01:08 PM

Overconfident PNMs need to realize that while it's great that they are gorgeous with good grades and tons of extracurriculars, plenty of girls in recruitment will be just as pretty and smart.

For example, you might think that the fact that you were Homecoming Queen in HS makes you unique and special and a "big catch" for any sorority. What you fail to realize is that depending on the school, you will be one of many smart, pretty, Homecoming Queens.

There was a particular girl who came into recruitment and told me "Oh you don't have to talk to me if you don't feel like it, I'm going to be an XY. I've heard they are the best one." She was a Homecoming Queen, 4.0, and very pretty. She told every single sorority the same thing (except XY). Well, when it was time for invites, none of us invited her back. Well that's okay right because she really wanted XY? Well, they didn't invite her back either. She was really upset about it, but that's what happens when you're too overconfident and don't consider all of your options.

33girl 06-20-2007 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADPi Conniebama (Post 1470086)
If she is going to UNA or Troy or whatever and, she IS as great as she thinks she is, then she will more then likely get what she wants, anyway. (unless she is a B$%&@^% or acts like one in the rooms) So, don't worry about her.

There were plenty of Miss Everythings from their high schools who went through rush at my noncompetitive school, and DIDN'T get what they wanted. High school and college are two different animals.

Denise_DPhiE 06-20-2007 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1470102)
There were plenty of Miss Everythings from their high schools who went through rush at my noncompetitive school, and DIDN'T get what they wanted. High school and college are two different animals.

Amen sista. That is the beauty of college. Levels the playing field!

dgdramadawg 06-20-2007 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADPi Conniebama (Post 1470086)
If she is going to BAMA then I would tell her to KEEP AN OPEN MIND because their are ALOT of GREAT HOUSES and her # 1 is just as involed and wins stuff and is just as cute as her # 4 or #6 for that matter.

I'd say ditto on this with other very competitive schools like Ole Miss, LSU, UGA, etc... especially if the school has 15-20 houses, how could only one or two be the "good" ones?

That LSU thread that carnation suggested reading was just heartbreaking to read. It really is a good one for anyone going through at an SEC or otherwise competitive school.

My sister (who will be rushing at an unnamed school this fall) and her closest friends have seen several girls from their group get burned in recent years because of overconfident attitudes (not getting their initial top choices or dropping because of their invites), so I really think they're aware of how crazy the cuts can be and will be as level-headed as possible about it... but I worry about the girls who don't have as many Greek friends and relatives and therefore haven't heard the horror stories. It's hard for me especially to see my students who are SOOOO excited about rushing at Auburn or Georgia and are SOOOOO naive about the possibilities for the outcome. They really have no reason to think that they won't pledge the "best" because they have never heard stories that indicate otherwise.

ErinIsBadNews 06-20-2007 09:16 PM

There are always a few PNM's who come into my work and buy stuff for their future sorority. :eek: I never know what to say to those girls who are so sure they are going to be an ABC that they're going to drop a bunch of money on a sorority that they may not get in. Itís often legacies who come in with their Mom or sister and want to buy 2 of everything one for the current member and one for their legacy they are sure is going to become their sorority sister. It always makes me sad. I usually try to tell them that there are 15 great organizations on campus and to keep an open mind. I appreciate the reasoning behind these girls a lot more than someone who wants to be an ABC because itís cool.

FuzzieAlum 06-20-2007 10:14 PM

I think maybe we need to rethink placement rates, or at least how we report them. Aren't they reported as the percentage of girls who attend through pref and get bids? So everyone who drops out or is dropped from all houses isn't reflected in that number, and rushees just see that "almost everyone who goes to pref gets a bid" and don't consider whether they'll make it to pref. PNMs need to be reminded that only x out of y girls who sign up for rush make get bids, too.

honeychile 06-20-2007 11:41 PM

When I went to college, I honestly thought that anyone who wasn't in a sorority or a fraternity had tried to get into one, but didn't get a bid!

When I look back at that thought, I'm so glad that was part of my mindset. I can't say that it spared me heartache, because I did get my first choice, but had I wanted an "unattainable" GLO, I'm sure that thought would have helped.

chitownxo 06-21-2007 01:05 AM

One of the young ladies I work with is planning on rushing this fall (she'll be a freshman). She has spent several hours looking at sorority websites to figure out which sorority she is going to join. She's mentioned several chapters that she thinks are beneath her, as she is "blonde and petite" and is sure the top chapter will snatch her up. In fact, she's bought some t-shirts with "her" letters on them already. A couple of us have tried to tell her that's it's a mutual selection process (you may have decided you're a perfect XYZ, but that doesn't mean XYZ will agree). She just looks blankly at us and says, "But I'm blonde and petite." Sometimes you've just got let someone do what they want...and be very glad that your sorority is not at her school.

BabyPiNK_FL 06-21-2007 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitownxo (Post 1470627)
One of the young ladies I work with is planning on rushing this fall (she'll be a freshman). She has spent several hours looking at sorority websites to figure out which sorority she is going to join. She's mentioned several chapters that she thinks are beneath her, as she is "blonde and petite" and is sure the top chapter will snatch her up. In fact, she's bought some t-shirts with "her" letters on them already. A couple of us have tried to tell her that's it's a mutual selection process (you may have decided you're a perfect XYZ, but that doesn't mean XYZ will agree). She just looks blankly at us and says, "But I'm blonde and petite." Sometimes you've just got let someone do what they want...and be very glad that your sorority is not at her school.


Did you explain to her that looks aren't everything. Maybe you should go there and tell her that personality means a lot and right now her's is severely lacking...(oops! did i say that?!)

chitownxo 06-21-2007 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL (Post 1470634)
Did you explain to her that looks aren't everything. Maybe you should go there and tell her that personality means a lot and right now her's is severely lacking...(oops!)

Oh, lordy have I tried, but she's not having any. She told me that I'm just jealous because, since I'm pregnant, I'm not as petite as she is, and I'm trying to bring her down. Yeah, sure. I'm so mean.

BabyPiNK_FL 06-21-2007 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitownxo (Post 1470638)
Oh, lordy have I tried, but she's not having any. She told me that I'm just jealous because, since I'm pregnant, I'm not as petite as she is, and I'm trying to bring her down. Yeah, sure. I'm so mean.


Why! The nerve, if anything she should be jealous of you! I mean, you're already in a sorority (pregnancy or not)! I've met girls like her, I think we all have and it's not usually pleasant for someone to come to your group and tell you to basically throw your MSS out the window because she is "IT!" Make sure to keep some tissues handy in the office, this one sounds like a real doozie! Keep us updated!

AlexMack 06-21-2007 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitownxo (Post 1470638)
Oh, lordy have I tried, but she's not having any. She told me that I'm just jealous because, since I'm pregnant, I'm not as petite as she is, and I'm trying to bring her down. Yeah, sure. I'm so mean.

That's okay, you know you'll have the last laugh.

SWTXBelle 06-21-2007 08:20 AM

Ummmm . . . do you know any alums of her "first choice" sorority??? You might give them a "head's up".
And jealous because you are currently not petite?? Let's see - you are about to bring a new life into the world - SHE should be jealous! Congratulations!

chitownxo 06-21-2007 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 1470689)
Ummmm . . . do you know any alums of her "first choice" sorority??? You might give them a "head's up".
And jealous because you are currently not petite?? Let's see - you are about to bring a new life into the world - SHE should be jealous! Congratulations!

Oh, I've got a great way to let her future sisters know. Another one of our co-workers is hosting a BBQ next month, and Ms. Blonde and Petite has asked if she can wear "her" letters. My friend happily agreed, and we're both planning on bringing our cameras and taking a few pictures.:)

33girl 06-21-2007 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitownxo (Post 1470804)
Oh, I've got a great way to let her future sisters know. Another one of our co-workers is hosting a BBQ next month, and Ms. Blonde and Petite has asked if she can wear "her" letters. My friend happily agreed, and we're both planning on bringing our cameras and taking a few pictures.:)

Wow, you are the awesome. :) If I have any similar jobs, I know who to call.

PenguinTrax 06-21-2007 02:51 PM

MEEEOWW.

TrueBlueKappa 06-21-2007 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitownxo (Post 1470627)
One of the young ladies I work with is planning on rushing this fall (she'll be a freshman). She has spent several hours looking at sorority websites to figure out which sorority she is going to join. She's mentioned several chapters that she thinks are beneath her, as she is "blonde and petite" and is sure the top chapter will snatch her up. In fact, she's bought some t-shirts with "her" letters on them already. A couple of us have tried to tell her that's it's a mutual selection process (you may have decided you're a perfect XYZ, but that doesn't mean XYZ will agree). She just looks blankly at us and says, "But I'm blonde and petite." Sometimes you've just got let someone do what they want...and be very glad that your sorority is not at her school.

Can you please make a recruitment thread for this girl??? That's one recruitment story I'd love to read!

cuteASAbug 06-21-2007 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueBlueKappa (Post 1471031)
Can you please make a recruitment thread for this girl??? That's one recruitment story I'd love to read!

I second this.

AlphaFrog 06-21-2007 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueBlueKappa (Post 1471031)
Can you please make a recruitment thread for this girl??? That's one recruitment story I'd love to read!

I don't think there'd be much content.

Round 1: Visited all houses. Was recognized from photos.
Later that night: Phone call.
End of story.

SWTXBelle 06-21-2007 04:22 PM

End of story
 
I'd still like to read it! It's kinda like when the car that goes speeding past you ACTUALLY gets pulled over by the police!

ErinIsBadNews 06-21-2007 05:32 PM

Can alumni write negative recs or do we usually just try to concentrate on every PNM's positives attributes? :rolleyes: It would be nice knowing who we donít want in our chapters without having to sacrifice not inviting back other great girls. I know this would probably never ever work but it would be nice.

dgdramadawg 06-21-2007 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinIsBadNews (Post 1471156)
Can alumni write negative recs or do we usually just try to concentrate on every PNM's positives attributes? :rolleyes: It would be nice knowing who we donít want in our chapters without having to sacrifice not inviting back other great girls. I know this would probably never ever work but it would be nice.

I know that multiple NPC orgs have a spot on the form for recs to check whether the PNM is recommended. It is totally possible to write a "negative rec" if you check that the PNM is not recommended. Why concentrate on the positive if the PNM is someone you wouldn't want for a sister?

SWTXBelle 06-21-2007 05:43 PM

Oh, alumnae write "negative recs" ( a bit of an oxymoron, but you know what I mean). I feel they need to be factual - not just "I don't like her" but "She has had 3 DUI convictions", or "She is already wearing your letters", or "She has made a habit of collecting ritual".Stuff like that . . .

Phimuteach 06-21-2007 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 1471164)
"She has made a habit of collecting ritual".Stuff like that . . .

Speaking of which......I'd really like to write a no-rec for the person described above. Though I have a feeling some of my sisters have done this already.


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