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-   -   The Best Strategy for a "Weak Recruiting" Chapter (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=127128)

Greek_or_Geek? 07-10-2012 10:24 AM

Yes, there are schools who line up by height. I think it's designed to make sure diminutive PNMs aren't lost in the crush as they enter the house, especially on the earlier days of recruitment.

As to the question about matching PNMs, I will give a general answer that yes indeed they are matched in earlier rounds. It's actually an important thing to do at competitive schools, but the hows and whys are internal business. I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the way we continue to chat about internal chapter recruitment details here on Greekchat. For me this borders on membership selection information, not to mention a lot of it is specific to very competitive schools and can make a PNM crazy with worry no matter what kind of school she's going to be rushing at.

UGAalum94 07-10-2012 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek? (Post 2157678)
Yes, there are schools who line up by height. I think it's designed to make sure diminutive PNMs aren't lost in the crush as they enter the house, especially on the earlier days of recruitment.

As to the question about matching PNMs, I will give a general answer that yes indeed they are matched in earlier rounds. It's actually an important thing to do at competitive schools, but the hows and whys are internal business. I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the way we continue to chat about internal chapter recruitment details here on Greekchat. For me this borders on membership selection information, not to mention a lot of it is specific to very competitive schools and can make a PNM crazy with worry no matter what kind of school she's going to be rushing at.

I don't think we're touching on anything bordering on secret membership selection in this thread. Here's what I'd say: if recruitment counselors or Greek advisors from other groups know what's being done and can tell simply by watching that girls that are being matched at a party, and I suspect they could, it's probably not MS. If PNMs themselves can observe it at a party, it's probably not straying close to MS.

I think the recruitment forum has some excellent moderators who watch out for disclosure of MS and will respond to your concerns if you PM them when you feel something has crossed the line.

GreekChat doesn't just exist for PNMs. So while some of the information shared would go way over their heads or might be counterproductive for them to worry about (matching, rfm, return rates, etc), there's nothing wrong with our talking about the things that interest alumnae or advisors, I don't think. My question about matching is a case in point. We didn't seem to do a lot of it at the chapters I attended as a PMN. It was a long time ago. It's interesting and helpful for me when I talk to members or PNMS in real life to know how different things are today even at my own campus.

AnchorAlumna 07-10-2012 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi (Post 2157666)
I can't speak to UGA, but a couple of years ago UCLA started to line up the PNMs in alphabetical order right before each round. The Rho Gammas would also take roll call and give it to the chapter moments before the party started. This way, the chapter knew exactly who was there, and in what order.

????
We did this back when we had to use torches to scare the dinosaurs away from our rushees.:p

KSUViolet06 07-14-2012 12:27 PM

Yeah, I think there's something to be said for focusing recruitment on the "middle of the bell curve."

This sounds bad, but it makes sense.

Don't concentrate your "single rusher, meet the President, top shelf best recruiter in the chapter on her" efforts on that top 2% of PNMs who are going to have their pick of any chapter and (being honest) probably aren't all that interested in you and are just being polite.

I think that's where chapters make mistakes. Don't focus on Superstar Suzy who is probably getting the red-carpet treatment at every top house. Sure, give her a great experience, but don't overdo it.

Focus it on that middle group who maybe isn't super well-known, or maybe not even super sold on the idea of being Greek. A lot of those women just get cycled through parties with small talk and just kind of fall through the cracks.

I think your returns change a lot when you switch your focus.

DeltaBetaBaby 07-14-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2158613)

Don't concentrate your "single rusher, meet the President, top shelf best recruiter in the chapter on her" efforts on that top 2% of PNMs who are going to have their pick of any chapter and (being honest) probably aren't all that interested in you and are just being polite.

I think that it not only messes up your returns, but breaks girls' hearts. I can't tell you how many times I'd see a sister SO excited about someone she rushed, only for that girl not to be on our list.

UGAalum94 07-14-2012 02:01 PM

I had thought that RFM would pull those super-highly desirable, polite but really uninterested PNMs from a WRC as the process went on. Does it not work out that way because very few PNM are wanted by all chapters?

DeltaBetaBaby 07-14-2012 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 2158638)
I had thought that RFM would pull those super-highly desirable, polite but really uninterested PNMs from a WRC as the process went on. Does it not work out that way because very few PNM are wanted by all chapters?

No, not at all. If anything, there are MORE of them there, because they are getting cut more harshly from the SRC's. In order for it to do what you describe, you'd have to let the top PNM's return to fewer parties as well.

FleurGirl 07-14-2012 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2158613)

Focus it on that middle group who maybe isn't super well-known, or maybe not even super sold on the idea of being Greek. A lot of those women just get cycled through parties with small talk and just kind of fall through the cracks.

Along those same lines, I think those sort of "middle of the pack" PNMs getting the superstar treatment at the weak recruiting house will make the chapter stick out more in her mind and creep up to the top of her list. If you're just getting the "uh huh, yeah, that's nice" treatment everywhere else and then you go to a chapter that makes you feel like a rockstar by focusing the strong recruiting girls with those PNMs, you're probably more likely to get a better return within that middle group.

UGAalum94 07-14-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2158643)
No, not at all. If anything, there are MORE of them there, because they are getting cut more harshly from the SRC's. In order for it to do what you describe, you'd have to let the top PNM's return to fewer parties as well.

I trust your experience. I'm not second guessing, just explaining.

I was thinking that having fewer parties [edited for clarity] as the rounds went on would sort of have that effect. PNM #1 can only go back to 10 of 17 (or whatever the real number) for second round, so assuming she was going to be invited back everywhere, she's now out of the running at 11-17. And since, as you don't re-invite as I understand RFM, she's gone for good.

I did understand that WRC ended up with more girls than SRC, but I was thinking they were mid-range PNM in an imaginary world where all PNM were equally as desirable to all chapters.

DeltaBetaBaby 07-14-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 2158667)
I trust your experience. I'm not second guessing, just explaining.

I was thinking that having fewer parties a round would sort of have that effect. PNM #1 can only go back to 10 of 17 (or whatever the real number) for second round, so assuming she was going to be invited back everywhere, she's now out of the running at 11-17. And since, as you don't re-invite as I understand RFM, she's gone for good.

I did understand that WRC ended up with more girls than SRC, but I was thinking they were mid-range PNM in an imaginary world where all PNM were equally as desirable to all chapters.

Oh, right, having fewer parties per round would decrease the number of "not even really looking" PNM's at the WRC. AFAIK, though, few campuses have cut down the number of parties as they've implemented RFM.

UGAalum94 07-14-2012 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2158671)
Oh, right, having fewer parties per round would decrease the number of "not even really looking" PNM's at the WRC. AFAIK, though, few campuses have cut down the number of parties as they've implemented RFM.

I was just thinking of the same ol' progressive decline in the number of parties to get from Open house/ first round to prefs. [ ETA: I see that I originally wrote "fewer parties a round" which isn't what I was really thinking, sorry.]

If there are any top PNMs who have more chapters interested in them than they have parties to attend anymore with RFM, they take themselves out of the running a couple of chapters per round.

I think that I'm interested in recruitment the same way that that some people love sports that track all kinds of stats.

tcsparky 07-14-2012 07:42 PM

I feel that same way! While I am excited when a chapter I am working with makes quota/gets their rush crushes.....I am also just as much interested in seeing the detailed stats for the week, and of course I always wish for a greater range of data ( such as WHO the PNMs listed ahead of us).

I feel like such a geek sometimes. ;)

AZ-AlphaXi 07-14-2012 08:05 PM

Me to ... I'm such a geek for the numbers of recruitment.

The following is old and pre-RFM .. but an interesting statistical treatment of "rush"

http://kuznets.fas.harvard.edu/~aroth/sorority.html

KSUViolet06 07-14-2012 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2158629)
I think that it not only messes up your returns, but breaks girls' hearts. I can't tell you how many times I'd see a sister SO excited about someone she rushed, only for that girl not to be on our list.

Oh yes.

I really wish I could be super honest with the collegians I work with about the unrealistic expectations they have for certain girls to join.

I'm sorry, but Super Cute Suzie has a sister in one Super Strong Chapter and a best friend in another. As much as you squeal "Omg, she's soooo cute! I want her to be my little soooo bad" she's not going to be. In fact, while you were thinking that, she was probably dropping your chapter. She should not be the focus of your recruiting efforts (single rushed, president intro, etc.)

Meanwhile Regular Renee, who knows no one in Greek Life, but is very excited about Greek Life, just got the double rusher treatment with the most quiet girl in your whole chapter.

UGAalum94 07-14-2012 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi (Post 2158717)
Me to ... I'm such a geek for the numbers of recruitment.

The following is old and pre-RFM .. but an interesting statistical treatment of "rush"

http://kuznets.fas.harvard.edu/~aroth/sorority.html


Oh, this looks interesting. Super-nerdy. yea! Thanks for linking it!

33girl 07-14-2012 10:13 PM

I'm afraid that all this talking about not focusing on SuperDuperSusie is going to backfire, and chapters will say "well, we could NEVER attract someone like that." It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

We had a super kickass rush chair one year, as well as a very motivated senior class. It definitely showed in our rushing. You could have knocked us over with a feather when we found out that many of the women coming to our events were torn, not between us and our usual "rival," but between us and BigDealPrettyPrincess Chapter. It definitely was a lesson for us to not be narrow-minded in the types of women we rushed.

Should you go overboard at the expense of other rushees to try and attract a super rushee? No, but it doesn't hurt to let her know that you like her company.

KSUViolet06 07-14-2012 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2158741)

Should you go overboard at the expense of other rushees to try and attract a super rushee?

This is what I'm referring to.

Go after those top 2% PNMs. Give them a great experience.

I'm not saying totally ignore every "longshot" PNM you don't feel you have a shot with.

I'm saying just don't overlook that middle ground group because you're so focused on those "longshot" women.

It's like college admissions. You aren't going to focus all of your time and energy on your "reaches."

DeltaBetaBaby 07-15-2012 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2158741)
I'm afraid that all this talking about not focusing on SuperDuperSusie is going to backfire, and chapters will say "well, we could NEVER attract someone like that." It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

We had a super kickass rush chair one year, as well as a very motivated senior class. It definitely showed in our rushing. You could have knocked us over with a feather when we found out that many of the women coming to our events were torn, not between us and our usual "rival," but between us and BigDealPrettyPrincess Chapter. It definitely was a lesson for us to not be narrow-minded in the types of women we rushed.

Should you go overboard at the expense of other rushees to try and attract a super rushee? No, but it doesn't hurt to let her know that you like her company.

Right, it's not a matter of ignoring the top rushees. It's a matter of making the middle-tier rushees feel just as special.

DubaiSis 07-15-2012 04:54 PM

When priorities have to be made, you do have to decide (like it or not) to give up on somebody. If you have 50 girls on the rush floor and 60 rushees at a party, and we all understand that double rushing is almost a guaranteed loss of both girls (if they have a choice), you have to decide who you're going to lose. I'm not saying put your WORST rusher on the BEST rushee. But put your best rushers on the biggest part of the bell curve. then the C rushers with the A rushees. And the F rushers with the F rushees.

But I think the part of this equation that may not be happening is knowing who your A rushers are and who your F rushers are. If you don't know this, the whole discussion is moot. And hopefully with some good rush prep and some real motivation, you can turn a C rusher into a B rusher and an F into a C because obviously you don't want any F rushers on the floor.

Changing subject a bit, what do you think of having every rusher prepared with a topic of discussion, pre-determined by each rush team? I did this in my team because a problem we had was everyone in the chapter talking about the same 1 huge point of pride for us. It was something every member was very comfortable talking about but it became ridiculous REALLY fast. So in my group, one talked about academics, one sports, one pop culture, one leadership (all examples). If we stuck to our topic we didn't repeat each other. Or is this too staged?

carnation 07-15-2012 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2158804)
Right, it's not a matter of ignoring the top rushees. It's a matter of making the middle-tier rushees feel just as special.

It would be wonderful if we could make all rushees feel special. Only, the downside of that is that they then get a horrible shock when they're not invited back.

Mevara 07-15-2012 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2158824)
It would be wonderful if we could make all rushees feel special. Only, the downside of that is that they then get a horrible shock when they're not invited back.

Isn't this what happens at the SRC? They are so good at making everyone feel welcomed but still have to cut PNMs.

DeltaBetaBaby 07-15-2012 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mevara (Post 2158829)
Isn't this what happens at the SRC? They are so good at making everyone feel welcomed but still have to cut PNMs.

Right, because, in theory, they have a much larger number of good rushers. Again, I don't think you should write off top women thinking "we'll never get her", but if you are a WRC, maybe you don't have to make any cuts after first round, or at least, you have enough invitations to invite everyone who makes grades. Now, pretend you had to make cuts. Would you cut from the top? Or cut from the bottom? Or a little of both?

Personally, I think there are plenty of "awesome PNM's" who are viewed as such because they are attractive, trendy, out-going, etc., as opposed to "medium PNM's" who are maybe not as cute, but would make good leaders, have good grades, etc. Active sisters get caught up in wanting the former, the same way PNM's want the chapter that is full of beauty queens. But if you can rush the hell out of the medium PNM's, you can have a great pledge class.

33girl 07-16-2012 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2158823)
Changing subject a bit, what do you think of having every rusher prepared with a topic of discussion, pre-determined by each rush team? I did this in my team because a problem we had was everyone in the chapter talking about the same 1 huge point of pride for us. It was something every member was very comfortable talking about but it became ridiculous REALLY fast. So in my group, one talked about academics, one sports, one pop culture, one leadership (all examples). If we stuck to our topic we didn't repeat each other. Or is this too staged?

It might be ok to have as a fallback, IF women don't get crazy and think OMG WE ARE TALKING ABOUT JUSTIN BEIBER WHEN I AM SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT THE STEELERS.

carnation 09-02-2019 07:50 PM

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