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indianagreek 09-30-2011 07:54 PM

Indiana Recruitment
 
I was told that at IU, only 45% of girls who go through recruitment receive bids. IU starts recruitment at the beginning of December, and it's continued after winter break during January. Do you think this 45% of girls that receive bids are the 45% who go through recruitment all the way to pref night, or does it take into account the girls who drop because of grades, or just random reasons.

*winter* 09-30-2011 08:08 PM

Indiana has its own system of doing things based on "living in" the house...so this means less slots per house=less girls getting bids. Apparently there isn't any room to expand/build new houses. There are about a gazillion threads on this if you search for Indiana! Good luck.

ETA: There are 5 at the bottom of the screen right now :) THreads about Indiana, that is.

KSUViolet06 09-30-2011 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indianagreek (Post 2096539)
I was told that at IU, only 45% of girls who go through recruitment receive bids. IU starts recruitment at the beginning of December, and it's continued after winter break during January. Do you think this 45% of girls that receive bids are the 45% who go through recruitment all the way to pref night, or does it take into account the girls who drop because of grades, or just random reasons.

With any sort of percentage, you do need to look at the fact that they (in most cases) don't account for women who CHOOSE to drop out.

Also, if you're getting this info from sorority members (or even other PNMs) keep in mind that they don't always know the EXACT stats for their school.

For example, the average placement rate at say, Bama (which is quite competitive) is in the 90% range. Yet, you'll hear a sorority member say something super off base like "recruitment was sooooo tough this year, only like 40% of the girls going through got bids!!!" That's just not true and many times that's just how they perceive it. Or they're trying to make their Greek system seem more exclusive than it is.

I suggest reading a little bit more about IU on this site, as their recruitment (structure and method of setting quota) is different than many schools.

CookiesNCream 11-07-2011 04:46 PM

I'm pretty sure that the 45% number takes into account all the PNMs who register for recruitment (which is about 1500-1600 each year I believe) and then subtracts those who end up dropping or being cut for grades in addition to those who don't match with a house at preference round. The actual number of PNMs who attend preference round but don't receive a bid isn't nearly as high. Still, IU recruitment is grueling (but well-worth it at the end). If you have any questions, feel free to ask because I went through last year. This will be my first year recruiting girls to join our chapter so I am in super recruitment geek-mode right now. :)

DubaiSis 11-08-2011 12:47 AM

And of course they have a new un-housed sorority on campus so presumably there will be greater opportunity to place girls, although maybe not in their first choice. I hope the girls will give them a chance.

33girl 11-08-2011 12:57 AM

I thought that TPA wasn't participating in the whole of formal rush - that they were only doing 19 party and then dropping out. If that is the case, girls will not be "placed" there - they'll have to make a decision to leave formal rush.

DubaiSis 11-08-2011 01:03 AM

I don't know. I was thinking they're already established so they would function more or less normally, but I guess they are still a colony so they would have to function differently (voting and other details being different). I will look forward to learning more!

KSUViolet06 11-08-2011 02:05 AM

^^^I'm thinking that next spring (spring 2013) will be their first full FR.

AOIIalum 11-08-2011 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2105022)
^^^I'm thinking that next spring (spring 2013) will be their first full FR.

That's the info I have as well.

IndianaSigKap 11-11-2011 10:43 AM

Yes, that is correct. TPA will participate in the open house round in a few weeks but that is all. I have mixed feelings about this since I was on campus when other sororities did this years ago. To the OP, yes, the placement rate at Indiana looks low but it does take into account the women who attend open houses then are not eligible to return due to their GPA. If those women were not counted in that figure it would be quite a bit higher. Also, that counts the women who CHOOSE to drop out because they did not receive invitations back to the chapters they wanted. Indiana recruitment is not impossible, it definitely requires an open mind and careful ranking of chapters with the end in mind.

indianagreek 11-12-2011 03:05 PM

Recruitment starts in 3 weeks! We haven't received our Rho Gammas yet but I am so excited to begin! :) I will be sure to update you all on my progress! :D

IUHoosiergirl88 11-12-2011 05:12 PM

I understand why TPA is choosing to drop out after 20 party, but I feel like it might be setting them up for disaster. We do have a pretty ingrained culture of sorority = living in the house, and I wonder how well the girls going through recruitment will take to that. Current TPA members are sophomores and up, and most of them went through recruitment at least once.

glittergal1985 11-12-2011 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88 (Post 2106159)
We do have a pretty ingrained culture of sorority = living in the house, and I wonder how well the girls going through recruitment will take to that.

I'm not that familiar with Indiana, does anyone know why they aren't allowing more greek housing? Is it lack of space? I've heard the university plans on having all 26 NPC groups eventually, but surely they will have to offer housing availability in order for everyone to accept. If IUHoosiergirl is correct, then there are obviously enough interested women to fill additional houses :confused:

KSUViolet06 11-12-2011 09:35 PM

^^^My understanding is NOT that the University isn't ALLOWING more Greek housing, it's just that the space isn't there.

All groups recently invited to colonize there have accepted the invitation on the terms of "you can colonize, but just know that there is no room for you to have housing."

It's also a money issue. Even if there were plenty of lots, it would cost a ton of money to build the kind of facility needed to be competitive (google some of the Indiana sorority houses and you'll see.)


DubaiSis 11-13-2011 01:02 AM

I still contend there's room for an alternative to the housed sorority. A distinctly smaller chapter, but available nonetheless. If I were them I would be participating in formal rush, have very directed conversations about what they can actually offer (and not pipe dreams about housing some day) and hope to get 15 or 20 new members. If they could sustain 75 members over time, happy members, I think they could consider themselves a success. Maybe even 50. There are some real positives to be exploited there, but they have to take full advantage of every opportunity they have, and formal rush is the biggest.

DeltaBetaBaby 11-13-2011 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2106248)
I still contend there's room for an alternative to the housed sorority. A distinctly smaller chapter, but available nonetheless. If I were them I would be participating in formal rush, have very directed conversations about what they can actually offer (and not pipe dreams about housing some day) and hope to get 15 or 20 new members. If they could sustain 75 members over time, happy members, I think they could consider themselves a success. Maybe even 50. There are some real positives to be exploited there, but they have to take full advantage of every opportunity they have, and formal rush is the biggest.

I disagree. I think it is too difficult for TPA to get an idea of who is really interested in them, and who is being polite as a fall-back option during FR. If they do all of FR, they could very quickly get the "they take anybody" reputation. I think building something separate is a good idea, at least for a few years.

DubaiSis 11-13-2011 03:35 AM

Not that either of our opinions matter, but what about a compromise? They could do the open house round that's coming up and the 1st round in January and THEN drop out. That will give the girls a second look but alleviate the negatives you've mentioned. I'm sure the IU Greek system is very interested in TPA's success. I'll be interested to hear how they're being promoted by the rho chis throughout the rush process.

IndianaSigKap 11-13-2011 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2106216)
^^^My understanding is NOT that the University isn't ALLOWING more Greek housing, it's just that the space isn't there.

All groups recently invited to colonize there have accepted the invitation on the terms of "you can colonize, but just know that there is no room for you to have housing."

It's also a money issue. Even if there were plenty of lots, it would cost a ton of money to build the kind of facility needed to be competitive (google some of the Indiana sorority houses and you'll see.)


Yes, the space is there and it has to be used for student housing per the Wells plan. However, the university wants all Greek chapters to be on Jordan. There are enough extra lots for this to happen and then some. Here is the kink in the armor, those chapters not on Jordan don't want to be on Jordan. If you look up KKG, Pi Phi, Alpha Phi and Tri Delta. They are located on Third Street and have beautiful houses. They are not going to move anytime soon. Also, the Theta and DG chapters are located in the middle of campus. IU is Theta's Beta chapter, I am sure the house is an historic landmark. Again, both houses are in excellent shape. There are a few fraternity houses in various locations, as well. It seems like the university is holding the some Greeks hostage until the others move.

And you're right about the cost. It would take a couple of million dollars to build a chapter house to compete with the current structures. But, I really think a chapter could succeed if it built a smaller, but nice, house sleeping 50 or so. IU chapters still use bed quota for rush, but some chapters do allow live outs (I believe only 7). If a chapter allows live outs, builds a chapter house with large common areas but only sleeps 50ish, I really think it would appeal to the women who want to live in and to the ones who want to live more independently but yet still be Greek.

glittergal1985 11-13-2011 08:37 PM

Have any other sororities accepted invites to colonize yet? I'm curious how this housing situation will play out when (and if) the rest of the NPC groups do end up colonizing at IU.

KSUViolet06 11-13-2011 09:00 PM

It is a stacked expansion with Theta Phi first, Tri Sigma the next year, and a 3rd whose name escapes me right now.

Of course everything is subject to change.

33girl 11-14-2011 09:53 AM

TPA first, and ASA and SSS have accepted invites to come on first and second.

However accepting the invite in a stacked situation like this does not mean that they'll actually come when it's their time.

IUHoosiergirl88 11-14-2011 04:40 PM

I think that Tri-Sig would be much more successful than TPA will turn out to be, but I could be wrong. Numbers are a MAJOR issue at IU, both for the # of girls that each house can take, and the # of girls going through recruitment. My house used to struggle and now, we're at capacity + liveouts and still being pushed to take more. There really isn't an option anymore for girls who don't receive bids through formal other than TPA, and that's why I feel like they may be setting themselves up for failure. You may have a limited number of girls who like them for them (say, 25), but outside of that, they're going to be competing for girls who didn't get any other houses back. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't.

KSUViolet06 11-14-2011 04:44 PM

^^^Question re: "no other options for girls who don't get bids":

Doesn't IU have informal on some level after FR? Or am I mistaken? Or are there options, but PNMs just aren't interested in those (after going into FR and falling in love with groups who cut them?)

IUHoosiergirl88 11-14-2011 04:51 PM

It's extremely limited. My chapter used to do informal on a more extensive basis when we were struggling, but we didn't take anyone last year. More chapters snap bid, but only to girls that preffed them or went deep into recruitment with them. It's much more of a 'Oh, you know Suzy and Sarah and Sandy and Amy and Becky and 16 other girls? We'll invite you to informal then" type of situation

DeltaBetaBaby 11-14-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88 (Post 2106494)
I think that Tri-Sig would be much more successful than TPA will turn out to be, but I could be wrong. Numbers are a MAJOR issue at IU, both for the # of girls that each house can take, and the # of girls going through recruitment. My house used to struggle and now, we're at capacity + liveouts and still being pushed to take more. There really isn't an option anymore for girls who don't receive bids through formal other than TPA, and that's why I feel like they may be setting themselves up for failure. You may have a limited number of girls who like them for them (say, 25), but outside of that, they're going to be competing for girls who didn't get any other houses back. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Tri-Sig will be in a better position than TPA? Just because they are coming on second?

IUHoosiergirl88 11-14-2011 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2106498)
Out of curiosity, why do you think Tri-Sig will be in a better position than TPA? Just because they are coming on second?

Yeah, that's the main reason. I think TPA is kind of the 'test case' and Tri-Sig can learn from them. Also, Tri-Sig is a bit more well known name wise, and of the 3 coming, I would consider them to be the 'biggest'. I believe TPA's biggest chapter is at Nebraska, and they're struggling a bit there from what I've seen.

KSUViolet06 11-14-2011 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88 (Post 2106497)
It's extremely limited. My chapter used to do informal on a more extensive basis when we were struggling, but we didn't take anyone last year. More chapters snap bid, but only to girls that preffed them or went deep into recruitment with them. It's much more of a 'Oh, you know Suzy and Sarah and Sandy and Amy and Becky and 16 other girls? We'll invite you to informal then" type of situation

Oh. So it's there, but you have to know someone (or several somebodies) to get an invite? I figured it wasn't an openly advertised kind of thing (same with other schools like IU where recruitment is competitive.)

Titchou 11-14-2011 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap (Post 2106288)
And you're right about the cost. It would take a couple of million dollars to build a chapter house to compete with the current structures. But, I really think a chapter could succeed if it built a smaller, but nice, house sleeping 50 or so. IU chapters still use bed quota for rush, but some chapters do allow live outs (I believe only 7). If a chapter allows live outs, builds a chapter house with large common areas but only sleeps 50ish, I really think it would appeal to the women who want to live in and to the ones who want to live more independently but yet still be Greek.

A house that size would cost way more than $2 million! The new sorority houses at Alabama are costing $8 million and up for 60-70. The ones at NCSU are in the $4 million range for 40 live ins. What I wouldn't give for a $2 million house that could house 50 women!

TSteven 11-14-2011 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88 (Post 2106499)
Yeah, that's the main reason. I think TPA is kind of the 'test case' and Tri-Sig can learn from them. Also, Tri-Sig is a bit more well known name wise, and of the 3 coming, I would consider them to be the 'biggest'. I believe TPA's biggest chapter is at Nebraska, and they're struggling a bit there from what I've seen.

It may be a tad premature to say that Theta Phi Alpha's Nebraska chapter is struggling. The Mu Chapter was just reinstated this past September 2011.

ETA: I am fairly certain the Nebraska Chapter is not Theta Phi Alpha's biggest chapter.

glittergal1985 11-14-2011 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 2106510)

ETA: I am fairly certain the Nebraska Chapter is not Theta Phi Alpha's biggest chapter.

That is correct,I believe it is actually one of our smallest chapters.

DeltaBetaBaby 11-14-2011 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2106500)
Oh. So it's there, but you have to know someone (or several somebodies) to get an invite? I figured it wasn't an openly advertised kind of thing (same with other schools like IU where recruitment is competitive.)

This is a little off-topic, but how many schools, other than IU, are really "competitive"? If a school is using a total/quota system, I don't see how it can actually be difficult to get a bid. Also, it seems that most schools with, say, eight or more chapters have at least one chapter that is not at total after FR, and thus doing COB.

IUHoosiergirl88 11-14-2011 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glittergal1985 (Post 2106512)
That is correct,I believe it is actually one of our smallest chapters.

Oh, my bad. We were always told that Nebraska was one of the bigger chapters, I'd never bothered to double check.

KSUViolet06 11-14-2011 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2106516)
This is a little off-topic, but how many schools, other than IU, are really "competitive"? If a school is using a total/quota system, I don't see how it can actually be difficult to get a bid. Also, it seems that most schools with, say, eight or more chapters have at least one chapter that is not at total after FR, and thus doing COB.

Other schools who set quota normally can be competitive, but the numbers aspect isn't what drives the competition at those schools.

I think that IU competitive and say, Bama competitive are 2 different things.

IU = competitive in the sense that there are more PNMs than spots available. Obvious competition there. You have x spots and y PNMs.

SEC competitive = (and correct me if I'm wrong) differently competitive in the sense of many PNMs only wanting certain chapters and those certain groups only having a limited number of spots (per RFM.) Schools like Bama set quota like anyone else and have the same placement rates as other schools. The difference is that more of the PNMs are jockeying for spots at certain places and aren't very open to others. So while the system is set up for everyone who makes it to Pref to get a bid, many aren't going to get that far because their hearts are set on a select group of chapters. Those select few can't take everyone who wants them. There is also the "who you know" element that makes it competitive. Recs, connections from HS, legacies, etc. eat up the available invites pretty quickly. So an average PNM going into recruitment with the bare min of recs/preparation is going to face some competition. The numbers aspect of competition is there, but there are other things that factor in to make it competitive.

And yeah, COR may be available at those schools, but at many schools like that, it involves one or more of the chapters that PNMs wouldn't have considered during FR. At some schools, PNMs with unsuccessful recruitments would sooner attempt FR again than pledge a chapter that wasn't a fave via COR.

Wow. I ramble. I just got out of a mind numbing lecture so hopefully it makes sense.

33girl 11-15-2011 12:08 AM

IUHoosiergirl - I think what you're thinking is that's the biggest school they're at. As far as ASA the biggest school we're at is Penn State but our James Madison chapter has more members.

DubaiSis 11-15-2011 03:30 AM

KSUViolet, that is an EXCELLENT explanation of competition. At schools were there are basically no grade cuts because college entry requirements are higher than typical sorority minimums, technically every single girl could get placed. And really, at a school like Bama, with 75% placement rates and a substantial number of those being dropouts or SIPs, the numbers lend themselves to really very few girls getting cut completely.

The "competition" aspect that most girls are thinking of really only applies to IU and Nebraska, but since nobody seems to complain about Nebraska, the number of girls interested must match desired chapter sizes.

DeltaBetaBaby 11-15-2011 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2106613)
KSUViolet, that is an EXCELLENT explanation of competition. At schools were there are basically no grade cuts because college entry requirements are higher than typical sorority minimums, technically every single girl could get placed. And really, at a school like Bama, with 75% placement rates and a substantial number of those being dropouts or SIPs, the numbers lend themselves to really very few girls getting cut completely.

The "competition" aspect that most girls are thinking of really only applies to IU and Nebraska, but since nobody seems to complain about Nebraska, the number of girls interested must match desired chapter sizes.

Refresh my memory...does Nebraska also use a bed quota?

TSteven 11-15-2011 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2106676)
Refresh my memory...does Nebraska also use a bed quota?

Yes. However, my understanding is each chapter may (if they want) also bid over the number of beds. The formula is based on the number of PNMs at preference, less the number of “beds” divided by the number of chapters.

So as an example, say 100 PNMs make it to preference and there were three chapters (just to make the math easy).

ABC has 20 bed spots
DEF has 17 bed spots
XYZ has 33 bed spots

70 total bed spots between all three chapters.

Using the formula above, this is how is should play out.

100 PNMs less 70 bed spots = 30 total PNM additions. 30 total PNM additions divided by 3 chapters = 10 additions per chapter.

Thus ABC could pledge 30 (20 bed spots plus 10 additions)
DEF could pledge 27 (17 bed spots plus 10 additions)
XYZ could pledge 43 (33 bed spots plus 10 additions)

ETA: I am not sure how this works, but Lincoln (where the University of Nebraska is located) women are (were) considered “free” PNMs. Meaning they didn’t count toward the bed total. I don’t know if Lincoln women were part of the additions or a separate number.

By the way, UNL changed the way recruitment is conducted this year. So I don’t know if these quotas, additions and “free” Lincoln women still apply.

DeltaBetaBaby 11-15-2011 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 2106697)
Yes. However, my understanding is each chapter may (if they want) also bid over the number of beds. The formula is based on the number of PNMs at preference, less the number of “beds” divided by the number of chapters.

So as an example, say 100 PNMs make it to preference and there were three chapters (just to make the math easy).

ABC has 20 bed spots
DEF has 17 bed spots
XYZ has 33 bed spots

70 total bed spots between all three chapters.

Using the formula above, this is how is should play out.

100 PNMs less 70 bed spots = 30 total PNM additions. 30 total PNM additions divided by 3 chapters = 10 additions per chapter.

Thus ABC could pledge 30 (20 bed spots plus 10 additions)
DEF could pledge 27 (17 bed spots plus 10 additions)
XYZ could pledge 43 (33 bed spots plus 10 additions)

Okay, so ultimately, there are enough spots for all of the women going through, they just allocate them among the chapters in a non-standard way.

TSteven 11-15-2011 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2106699)
Okay, so ultimately, there are enough spots for all of the women going through, they just allocate them among the chapters in a non-standard way.

If all chapters take the additions then in theory, yes there are enough spots for all of the women going through. However, my understanding is that not all chapters take all the possible additions every year - unless their classes are relatively even.

The theory (reason) being the chapter may not want "too large" of a freshman class “now” in case the overall PNM pool happens to be smaller down the line. If that were to happen (a smaller pool after a large number of members graduate), then it is possible that a chapter might have more “open beds” than PNMs.

ETA: The "...unless their classes are relatively even" above, refers to bed spots.

DeltaBetaBaby 11-15-2011 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 2106733)
If all chapters take the additions then in theory, yes there are enough spots for all of the women going through. However, my understanding is that not all chapters take all the possible additions every year - unless their classes are relatively even.

The theory (reason) being the chapter may not want "too large" of a freshman class “now” in case the overall PNM pool happens to be smaller down the line. If that were to happen (a smaller pool after a large number of members graduate), then it is possible that a chapter might have more “open beds” than PNMs.

Um, that makes no sense whatsoever. If there is a small PNM pool, it doesn't matter whether 20 of your members or 30 of your members just graduated.


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