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TriDeltaSallie 01-04-2010 01:16 PM

Preparing for recruitment since birth
 
I didn't want to hijack the Alabama Recruitment Question thread that just started, but I was interested in this comment by OTW:

Face it, you'll be competing for spots with some girls who have been preparing for this since birth. That's how competitive this campus is.

I know this gets said on GC from time to time, but I'd be curious if people would give concrete examples of exactly how these women are prepped from birth (whether at Alabama or at the other cut-throat universities). I don't doubt it is true for one minute. But I'd be interested in hearing examples of what these girls and their moms do in order to maximize their chances (beyond recs for every house, etc.).

And does anyone in the know have any kind of idea how many of these heavily prepped women don't make it into an "acceptable" chapter? I know no such actual numbers exist. I'm thinking more anecdotal type stuff.

Thanks! :)

KSUViolet06 01-04-2010 01:28 PM

This is just northern me talking (as someone with friends who are southern school sorority alumnae).

I think that in alot of social circles in the south, it's not so much outright and blatant coaching as it is just inherent. Girls aren't neccessarily groomed to be ABC (e. g. mom quizzing daughter on how to best impress the ABCs at recruitment beginning at age 3 and continuing through senior year). It is just assumed that they will be, because that's just the way it is.

Mary Sue is born in Anytown, AL. Her mom and grandma are both ABCs from Anytown University. Sister was ABC chapter president at Anytown. Therefore, Mary Sue will be an ABC at Anytown.

No one has tell her that she'll be ABC at Anytown or prepare her for the recruitment process. She has been hearing about ABC and recruitment since she could remember, so by the time senior year comes, it's all just routine. That's just the way things have always gone in Mary Sue's family.

Now, the problem arises when the Anytown ABCs have more than quota worth of Mary Sue's going through. Often, a Mary Sue who doesn't get invited back to her ABC is going to drop out. Because well, why would she be anything else? Of course, she could very well be happy in any other of her remaining choices, but that would mean breaking the tradition of ABC in the family.

[I used family as an example here, but same is true for certain regions, high schools, etc. It is sometimes inherent that girls from XY HS join these chapters]

AOII Angel 01-04-2010 01:41 PM

Exactly...

Or, when DEF decides to colonize at Anytown University. Women at Anytown haven't been raised that DEF is an acceptable organization in Anytown State so joining that group is NOT preferable to being non-Greek. This is how the custom of going to a small school with ABC chapter and noncompetitive recruitment began so that ABC legacy dropped at Anytown University could then transfer back to Anytown University to claim her "rightful" place.

It's really hard for new chapters to move up the food chain because of these biases taught from an early age.

KSUViolet06 01-04-2010 01:56 PM

To add to my post:

I think the more blatant coaching and preparation for competitive recruitments comes from those parents and families with the LEAST amount of connections or knowledge of the Greek system. Not uber-connected PNMs with multi-generation legacies (or those who are Miss Popular at "feeder high schools").

Like I said in my post, Mary Sue isn't coached and drilled on recruitment because it isn't neccessary. She knows (based on her social circle) where she'll end up and there's no need for these extensive preparations that we read about (e.g. hiring rush coaches, interview coaches, voraciously hunting down outfits, etc). Her family is in the know and everything will work out.

The girls being blatantly and openly groomed and coached for sorority life are those not "in the know."

Those are the girls who need the extra help because they lack well-connected parents/relatives/etc.

These are the PNMs and moms who WANT to be in a top house (like Mary Sue), and thus spend alot of time preparing for the process (because they're behind the curve of those girls like Mary Sue who don't have to exert such effort).

Oddly enough, I've heard it said that the moms and PNMs who are most concerned with getting into a TOP HOUSE (and are the MOST status-conscious) are those who are NOT "shoe-ins" for top tier like Mary Sue (such as PNMs with non-greek parents).

Mary Sue has what she needs to get into ABC so getting in is (typically) not an issue. She is not pressed about what "tier" ABC is. She has grown up in a family of ABC women, so it's all she knows.

On the other hand, Suzie Jane who just moved to Anytown in 10th grade (whose mom is NOT Greek) who sees/hears about ABC all the time from the popular girls in school, is going to have to work 300% harder to come close to having a shot at it.

Suzie Jane's mother will likely invest in the heavy duty coaching because she has asked around and knows that being ABC at Anytown University is "the best" and wants her daughter to have access to the status of being one. So she, being from the outside is more concerned with what's "the best" and "top tier."

Wow, that was long. But all of this to say that heavy duty grooming and coaching is mostly for those who are trying to "break into" sorority life and the social circle that it provides in some Southern town. Not for those who have grown up in it. For them, things just are what they are.


AOII Angel 01-04-2010 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1880572)
To add to my post:

I think the more blatant coaching and preparation for competitive recruitments comes from those parents and families with the LEAST amount of connections or knowledge of the Greek system. Not uber-connected PNMs with multi-generation legacies (or those who are Miss Popular at "feeder high schools").

Like I said in my post, Mary Sue isn't coached and drilled on recruitment because it isn't neccessary. She knows (based on her social circle) where she'll end up and there's no need for these extensive preparations that we read about (e.g. hiring rush coaches, interview coaches, voraciously hunting down outfits, etc). Her family is in the know and everything will work out.

The girls being blatantly and openly groomed and coached for sorority life are those not "in the know."

Those are the girls who need the extra help because they lack well-connected parents/relatives/etc.

These are the PNMs and moms who WANT to be in a top house (like Mary Sue), and thus spend alot of time preparing for the process (because they're behind the curve of those girls like Mary Sue who don't have to exert such effort).

Oddly enough, I've heard it said that the moms and PNMs who are most concerned with getting into a TOP HOUSE (and are the MOST status-conscious) are those who are NOT "shoe-ins" for top tier like Mary Sue (such as PNMs with non-greek parents).

Mary Sue has what she needs to get into ABC so getting in is (typically) not an issue. She is not pressed about what "tier" ABC is.

On the other hand, Suzie Jane who just moved to Anytown in 10th grade (whse mom is from Anytown and NOT Greek) who sees/hears about ABC all the time from the popular girls in school, is going to have to work 300% harder to come close to having a shot at it.


[


Unless, of course, Mary Sue isn't a shoe in. It happens. Sometimes, the triple legacy is not ABC material, but Grandma, Aunts Martha and Billie Jo, Big Sister Anna Claire and Mama just can't see it.

KSUViolet06 01-04-2010 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1880579)
Unless, of course, Mary Sue isn't a shoe in. It happens. Sometimes, the triple legacy is not ABC material, but Grandma, Aunts Martha and Billie Jo, Big Sister Anna Claire and Mama just can't see it.

Of course that happens (I said so in my first post), but I was just trying to make my point about how the "grooming" isn't typically blatant and outright in those cases because the PNM has grown up with said sorority all of her life.

AOII Angel 01-04-2010 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1880582)
Of course that happens (I said so in my first post), but I was just trying to make my point about how the "grooming" isn't typically blatant and outright in those cases because the PNM has grown up with said sorority all of her life.

Oh, I'm not arguing with you. I agree. Totally.

DrPhil 01-04-2010 02:45 PM

From an NPHC perspective, prepping since birth happens and I think it is quite unfortunate.

It includes, but is not limited to, the lame "future XYZ" shirts that people are given at babyshowers. The "my mommy/daddy is an XYZ" shirts are only tolerable if they are on a child who is the opposite sex of the organization's membership. Telling kids "when you become an XYZ" is equally annoying.

I think it is fine to socialize kids around college educated and professional people who are also in GLOs. What's lame is surrounding your child by a particular GLO with hopes of shaping your child's decision making process. Give your child the information and let them know they have tons of sources of information and potential letters of rec should they decide to go that route. Don't bamboozle them into thinking that's THE route for them. Let them know they have support in whatever they decide.

I don't entertain future anything from children. I only entertain aspirant conversations--meaning, people who are collegiates or alum and qualify for membership. If you are under the age of 18 and aren't a college student or alum, I don't care what you want to be. If you want to be in a sorority other than mine, don't expect me to try to speak negatively about that other sorority and persuade you to join mine when you FINALLY go to college. I had a child in the family try that with me over the holiday. LOL.

TriDeltaSallie 01-04-2010 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1880572)


Oddly enough, I've heard it said that the moms and PNMs who are most concerned with getting into a TOP HOUSE (and are the MOST status-conscious) are those who are NOT "shoe-ins" for top tier like Mary Sue (such as PNMs with non-greek parents).

Mary Sue has what she needs to get into ABC so getting in is (typically) not an issue. She is not pressed about what "tier" ABC is. She has grown up in a family of ABC women, so it's all she knows.


Thanks for all the interesting replies!

So if Mary Sue is an ABC super legacy and ABC is a "second tier" group (still good and acceptable but not one of "the" groups), and she would have what it takes to make it into a "top tier" group... Would she strive for "improving" herself by going for the top tier group or would she be more apt to be "content" as an ABC because that is all she knows and what is expected? Would her family be glad to have her move to a "top tier" group or would ABC membership be all that matters?

AOII Angel 01-04-2010 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie (Post 1880591)
Thanks for all the interesting replies!

So if Mary Sue is an ABC super legacy and ABC is a "second tier" group (still good and acceptable but not one of "the" groups), and she would have what it takes to make it into a "top tier" group... Would she strive for "improving" herself by going for the top tier group or would she be more apt to be "content" as an ABC because that is all she knows and what is expected? Would her family be glad to have her move to a "top tier" group or would ABC membership be all that matters?

If I were a betting woman, I think it would be ABC all the way. You have that many ABCs in your family, many times, they don't like seeing a family member purposely join a rival organization. (Whether or not they are the same "tier" or higher.)

chopperdude 01-04-2010 02:52 PM

are so called second tier groups even though the are strong nationals still good organizations?
it is a shame that a chapter on a campus is not in the top what ever but is still strong nation wide and they have family who in that organization. we have gone through many changes over the years so things do change.

tld221 01-04-2010 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1880589)
From an NPHC perspective, prepping since birth happens and I think it is quite unfortunate.

It includes, but is not limited to, the lame "future XYZ" shirts that people are given at babyshowers. The "my mommy/daddy is an XYZ" shirts are only tolerable if they are on a child who is the opposite sex of the organization's membership. Telling kids "when you become an XYZ" is equally annoying.

I think it is fine to socialize kids around college educated and professional people who are also in GLOs. What's lame is surrounding your child by a particular GLO with hopes of shaping your child's decision making process. Give your child the information and let them know they have tons of sources of information and potential letters of rec should they decide to go that route. Don't bamboozle them into thinking that's THE route for them. Let them know they have support in whatever they decide.

I don't entertain future anything from children. I only entertain aspirant conversations--meaning, people who are collegiates or alum and qualify for membership. If you are under the age of 18, I don't care what you want to be. If you want to be in a sorority other than mine, don't expect me to try to speak negatively about that other sorority and persuade you to join mine when you FINALLY go to college. I had a child in the family try that with me over the holiday. LOL.

and it continues with decorating the child's room in organization colors/mascots, allowing the child to use the handsign in pics or doing the call in public, attending EVERY stepshow/conference/chapter meeting, threatening to not pay tuition if said child pledges something other than your org (or "brother/sister" org), joining the youth affiliate group and treating it like a little brother/sister club...

the list goes on.

i mean seriously. let the children have a mind (and affiliation) of their own. creating a legacy is awesome, but shouldnt be the rule.

Just interested 01-04-2010 04:10 PM

To answer TriDeltaSallie, from what I've seen over the years, and this is just my observation, many moms from my part of the world anyway, would prefer their daughter go Top Tier, over their own group even their own chapter. I have seen it too many times. They call it finding the best fit for their daughter. It is moving up the social ladder. They have seen to it that daughter went to right HS, the right summer camp and I hate to say this, even the right church. This is certainly not everyone but it is enough to be noticed by those of us who work on Reference Boards. It is an amazing thing to watch as an observer to positioning that takes place. This is going to be an interesting thread.

DrPhil 01-04-2010 04:12 PM

On another note, people tend to discuss this as it pertains to sororities (not just because the people in this thread are in sororities) but such preparation also happens with many fraternity legacies. Maybe the connotation is different when it comes to fraternities and I think that might be a gendered double standard.

Low C Sharp 01-04-2010 05:50 PM

Quote:

Like I said in my post, Mary Sue isn't coached and drilled on recruitment because it isn't neccessary. She knows (based on her social circle) where she'll end up and there's no need for these extensive preparations that we read about (e.g. hiring rush coaches, interview coaches, voraciously hunting down outfits, etc).
I might add that Mary Sue IS drilled and coached on the skills and rules that will serve her in recruitment...but from age 3 to age 15, not as a high school senior. No one is born knowing that you don't wear white shoes after Labor Day. Mary Sue's mama made sure she knew about that. School-aged Mary Sue went to dancing class and tea parties and cotillions where she had a chance to practice her social graces (and mama had a chance to whip her into shape if she made any mistakes). She IS groomed from birth, but for the life of the social elite in Anytown, not for rush per se.

The first few pages of a novel about Mary Sue, which Mary Sue wrote in her 50s and which you can read on Amazon, explain the process in detail:

http://www.amazon.com/Heartbreak-Hot...der_1416544909
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