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-   -   What to tell overconfident PNMs (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=87932)

honeychile 07-17-2017 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honeychile (Post 2268337)
I know that I've been quietly reading on this, but let me add this:

My ADPi little sister has three daughters, twins who decided not to go through recruitment, and one who wanted to do so (at VTech). LS hasn't even seen an Adelphean for years, but she decided to let me know HALFWAY THROUGH RECRUITMENT!! I asked if LSD (couldn't resist Little Sister's Daughter) had recs, and LS told me, "she told them that she was a legacy." ACK!!! With her permission, I contacted the Chapter Advisor, and got in touch with other wonderful NPC ladies who immediately did so for LSD, too. LSD is a wonderful young woman, with so many skills, it's amazing, and managed to get all the way until prefs, where she didn't get the invitations to neither of the sororities where she felt comfortable, and dropped out of Recruitment.

This is SO HARD for me, because she had it. She got through all but one round (with ADPi). While I'm not positive (due to membership selection reasons), I am 90% positive that LSD was seriously crippled by not having a FULL legacy rec (yes, ADPi was one of her desired GLOs). Her mother wasn't familiar with the necessity of recs at VTech because our chapter rarely got them. She hadn't been receiving the Adelphean, so she didn't hear it there.

I cannot imagine taking Physics 201 without taking the entry level classes first - don't let a PNM go through Recruitment without Recs! Just because the school says that they are unnecessary doesn't mean that they won't help a PNM immensely!

I can only hope that LSD gives it another try...

As an update, LSD did go through Recruitment the following year, this time with a full load of recs. She fell in love with Pi Beta Phi, and got the bid of her choice. So, she did have a happy ending, and graduated this spring.

But there is one other comment I wish to make. When LSD's mother & I were actives, a 5-generation legacy went through Rush. She didn't want to go Greek, but was forced to do so - and showed it. We talked to our Advisor about her, and were told that we had no choice. She did pledge, but was initiated at Convention, then fell off of the radar. Maybe it's for the best - but I can't help but wonder if there's a 6-generation legacy about to sign up for Recruitment...

Titchou 07-17-2017 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2436320)
This.

And to add to what everyone else has said:

Another reason why phone calls may eventually become obsolete: Too many legacy connections for one PNM. I'm in my early 30s, and my grandparents were born in the 1920s/1930s when NPCs were still relatively new and many women weren't attending college. My mom attended a school with no NPC sororities.

As the years go on, there will be more and more PNMs with more and more legacy connections. A much higher percentage of women are now attending college. NPCs are opening between 2-7 new chapters each year. A record number of PNMs are signing up for recruitment at schools across the country.

What happens when a PNM has two grandmothers, a mother, and two sisters who were all in different NPCs? And what about those groups that consider aunts, cousins, etc. as legacy connections? Do you really think they'll each feel that they're owed a phone call?

The one with the closest connection to the particular group gets the call...and it's her responsibility to let the other relatives in THAT group know. And the purpose of the call is two-fold: as a courtesy to the member and so that SHE can call the PNM and let her know rather than have her hear it from her Rho Chi. Sorry, we Southerners are old school....

IndianaSigKap 07-17-2017 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2436316)
Well, right now Alabama has 2500 women registered. Divide that by the 16 sororities participating in formal and you have 156. I have absolutely no problem believing that there are (for example) 200 women whose mother, grandmother (which you have at least two of) or sister (which you can have many of) is a Pi Phi among those 2500.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou (Post 2436318)
I could see that for a couple of chapters there. Or try any school in MS for Delta Gammas. We were founded in MS and often have close to a pledge class worth at any of the 3 schools there.

Or try Kappa Alpha Theta at Indiana University or Purdue University. Theta was founded at DePauw, IU is the Beta chapter. There are a ton of Theta legacies at most Indiana universities. One of the years I was a collegian, there were over 100 Theta legacies and our bed rush pledge classes ranged from 30-55. Easily more than enough Theta legacies for two or three pledge classes.

ASTalumna06 07-17-2017 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou (Post 2436328)
The one with the closest connection to the particular group gets the call...and it's her responsibility to let the other relatives in THAT group know. And the purpose of the call is two-fold: as a courtesy to the member and so that SHE can call the PNM and let her know rather than have her hear it from her Rho Chi. Sorry, we Southerners are old school....

Never said you weren't. And I understand the reasons behind it. I just don't know that it will matter that much to the mom, grandmother, etc., or to the PNM in the future as much as it has in the past.

Just saying.. things might change.

1964Alum 07-17-2017 10:46 PM

Chi Omega also has enough legacies at some schools for 2-3 pledge classes. Our legacies now are only daughters and sisters of Chi Os.

ARKTTKA 07-18-2017 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1964Alum (Post 2436336)
Chi Omega also has enough legacies at some schools for 2-3 pledge classes. Our legacies now are only daughters and sisters of Chi Os.

Definitely the case at Arkansas - Hoot Psi

SydneyK 07-18-2017 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou (Post 2436328)
the purpose of the call is two-fold: as a courtesy to the member and so that SHE can call the PNM and let her know rather than have her hear it from her Rho Chi.

I understand that this is one of the perceived benefits of contacting the legacy relative, but this approach has always rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it's because my school didn't have any sororities I had a legacy connection to, but I would have been really irritated if a family member who wasn't involved in my rush experience had called me to deliver such news. I'm southern and went to a southern school, so it can't all be cultural.

It seems to me that the best person to deliver that kind of news is someone who is currently actively involved in that rush. We (NPC) go out of our way to create a vacuum-like environment for recruitment. Why do we 'break the seal' for this?

DGTess 07-18-2017 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2436316)
Well, right now Alabama has 2500 women registered. Divide that by the 16 sororities participating in formal and you have 156. I have absolutely no problem believing that there are (for example) 200 women whose mother, grandmother (which you have at least two of) or sister (which you can have many of) is a Pi Phi among those 2500.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou (Post 2436318)
I could see that for a couple of chapters there. Or try any school in MS for Delta Gammas. We were founded in MS and often have close to a pledge class worth at any of the 3 schools there.

I knew I had to be missing something. I have zero experience with multi-generational greeks and, as I said, did not even try to persuade my daughter to rush at UT (though later, when I inquired via email about COB, I got what I considered to be a rude and condescending response from the chapter representative; we were approaching the question from two very different frameworks).

So I can see that sometimes this is the case. Not as often as it's seemingly presented here, but sometimes. Thank you for clearing it up. I wish it weren't presented here as being so common, but I understand better.

BlueCarnation 07-18-2017 03:51 PM

When I was cut from my (grandmother's) legacy sorority, they called my Grandfather --presumably because he gave money to the organization every year and she had passed away many years earlier. This, to me, was odd. I was fine with being cut--I knew I would be--and he was fine with me being cut. I would assume they had been told they had to call him, because it was not my Grandmother's chapter and I certainly didn't write anything other than her name and affiliation on my form. And this wasn't even the South!

As a collegiate, I dealt with with some very irate parents. We had two chapters on our campus that appealed to a very specific group of girls and we often had 3 times as many legacies from those chapters as could fit in a pledge class. It happens all over.

phoenix16 07-18-2017 07:08 PM

Several things (I spent the last hour reading through the thread):
My chapter in a large Greek system is considered "undesirable" by PNMs and we often get ones who feel that it is beneath them to even talk to us for a short period of time. We have had some PNMs bring sisters to tears. It can get nasty.

The stories about PNMs lacking discretion also hits home, because we have a long lunch break during most days of recruitment and as a winter recruitment school, we often don't have our letters visible. Groups of us will go out for lunch (I often run into friends in other chapters) but the PNMs are out too. I have heard some terrible statements about chapters, both mine and others, while the PNM was surrounded by actives! During the actual rounds, we had one PNM say she was passionate about starting a "fat camp." We thought this was a ploy for her to get out of visiting our chapter again, but apparently she told every chapter this! She was serious! I don't know what happened to her, but I imagine it offended many of the chapters.

Final comment, we had a legacy issue because someone did not want to make the phone call to her relative. She was downright strange, but she was not released because of the phone call. In the end, she caused a lot of hurt and tension in the chapter, so now phone calls are considered if necessary.

navane 07-18-2017 07:36 PM

Gamma Phi Beta's policy on legacies is public information:

https://www.gammaphibeta.org/members.../legacy-policy


We leave it to the PNM to make the notification to her legacy-maker. I also like the way the whole policy is worded - it is clear, cautious and supportive of the PNM.

clemsongirl 07-18-2017 10:04 PM

If anyone wants to read ADPi's policy it is also public: https://www.alphadeltapi.org/files/1...troduction.pdf

Sciencewoman 07-18-2017 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navane (Post 2436393)
Gamma Phi Beta's policy on legacies is public information:

https://www.gammaphibeta.org/members.../legacy-policy


We leave it to the PNM to make the notification to her legacy-maker. I also like the way the whole policy is worded - it is clear, cautious and supportive of the PNM.

I just love the backdrop picture of the 4 generations of sisters. I've seen several Convention pictures of the first 3 generations of this family, and now there are two new members in the 4th generation! Of course, this kind of makes the thought of a legacy being released even sadder...

We've had this policy "PNM self-notification" policy for as long as I can remember. I agree with it.

ZTA72 07-19-2017 02:10 AM

Legacy
 
My girls preffed at ZTA but joined another group at FSU. I told them to follow their hearts.
That is a most beautiful picture of a family legacy.

ASTalumna06 07-19-2017 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman (Post 2436399)
We've had this policy "PNM self-notification" policy for as long as I can remember. I agree with it.

It's nice that it's clearly stated in the legacy policy. I'm sure there are still some irate mothers and grandmothers from time to time, but at least you can point them to this.

AOIIalum 07-22-2017 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navane (Post 2436393)
Gamma Phi Beta's policy on legacies is public information:

https://www.gammaphibeta.org/members.../legacy-policy

Many kudos to Gamma Phi Beta, well done!

Alpha Omicron Pi's legacy policy is also available on our website. Yes, we still "make the call". Sisters/daughters/granddaughters are all considered legacies, and we also specify that step and adopted sisters/daughters/granddaughters are as well. Not sure how many other NPCs include the step and adopted language? https://www.alphaomicronpi.org/exper...aoii-legacies/

Titchou 07-22-2017 11:47 AM

This is Delta Gamma's:

A legacy is a great-granddaughter, granddaughter, daughter, sister or the same step-relation of a Delta Gamma member. Delta Gamma legacies receive special consideration in recruitment, as they already have a connection with Delta Gamma.
Delta Gammas wishing to let a chapter know about her legacy should complete a Sponsor Form. The sponsor can choose to be notified during recruitment if her legacy is not returning to a Delta Gamma recruitment event by voluntarily including contact information on the form.

phoenix16 07-22-2017 05:06 PM

For ASA:
A legacy is defined as:
-Sister/step-sister
-Daughter/step-daughter
-Granddaughter/step-granddaughter
-Niece/step-niece

of an Alpha Sigma Alpha member.

https://www.alphasigmaalpha.org/join...ies-referrals/

ASTalumna06 07-23-2017 09:48 AM

I started Googling and stumbled upon this thread. Keep in mind this was started in 2002, but some might find it interesting to see what's changed and what's stayed the same within each policy.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=18486

Tom Earp 07-23-2017 02:52 PM

Pardon me for stepping in, LOL!

Just because a person is a legacy Male or Female does not mean they would be right for a certain Chapter for a fit. Is that that the most important thing first and fore most? The Right Fit where a person will feel more at hone and better!

Brothers son (# 54) son was recruited, chapter felt he was a lock and moved on passed him. Well, he pledged Sig Ep, right across the street from the LXA house. The Chapter was piss to put it bluntly! My first response was Whose Fault was it? Not the sons, but the chapter.

If they are worth rushing, never figure it is a lock!

JonInKC 07-23-2017 09:21 PM

I would hate to be the person that had to make those phone calls. Especially when you couldn't tell the person why the legacy was released.

carnation 08-10-2017 03:04 PM

It can be worse if you really do know the answer. Some of those answers are SHOCKING.:eek:

clemsongirl 08-10-2017 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2438051)
It can be worse if you really do know the answer. Some of those answers are SHOCKING.:eek:

Right? Do family members really want to hear "your daughter was a horrific bully to a sister in high school and we have documented evidence" or "do you want to see the pictures she's posting online?"

carnation 08-10-2017 04:04 PM

I refuse to be the one who tells them, "Here's where you can see a public photo of your granddaughter, drunk and peeing in a sink."

tds81510 08-10-2017 04:37 PM

Oh my......I need to stay more sheltered.....My daughter starts recruitment on Monday and is a triple legacy, but I can say with almost 100% certainty that she doesn't have any drunk peeing in the sink photos...just not her style at all.....I know...mom doesn't always know about these things...but she is pretty "dull" in the party department and her posse hung out at our house and played cards and watched movies most weekend nights......

ladybug12 08-10-2017 07:40 PM

As a membership adviser for a chapter, my retinas have been burned with images the past few years of young women making poor choices and then documenting those poor choices on SnapChat or Instagram. I do not care what you think....nothing is PRIVATE when you post on social media!!!

clemsongirl 08-10-2017 08:41 PM

I just got this email from my chapter, and I wanted to share the text because I thought it was a great example of how to thank an alum who submits a recommendation.

Dear Sister,

On behalf of the recruitment team for the Zeta Nu Chapter of Alpha Delta Pi, thank you for submitting the Potential New Member Profile (recommendation form)/Legacy Introduction Form for <PNM name>. Our Recruitment Team is gearing up for another successful recruitment at Clemson University, and we look forward to meeting every Potential New Member (PNM) starting on August 19th!

As many as 1200 PNMs will register for recruitment at Clemson University in 2017, and each year the women are more impressive than the year before. The PNMs seem to all have exceptional grades and test scores, and each resume reflects extraordinary achievements in the areas of scholarship, leadership, community service, and extra-curricular activities.

Please know that we sincerely appreciate your recommendation, and we will carefully consider your input. As much as we wish everyone could find her home in Alpha Delta Pi, the intense competition and the invitation figures established by Panhellenic present major challenges for us as a chapter. The reality is that we will be able to call only about 75 young women our new sisters on Bid Day.

In accordance with privacy protections maintained for the PNMs, no member of the Recruitment Team, including advisors, can release or discuss any specific information regarding a PNM with an Alpha Delta Pi alumna. However, if you have any general questions about the recruitment process at Clemson University or in Alpha Delta Pi, please contact Zeta Nu's Recruitment Advisor, <name and email>, or Zeta Nu's Chapter Advisor, <name and email>.

Again, thank you for your recommendation. We are so excited to meet all of these amazing women so soon!

Go Tigers! Go Greek! Go ADPi!

Loyally,
The Zeta Nu Recruitment Team at Clemson University

ivyrose2 11-29-2017 11:19 AM

clemsongirl, very nicely worded acknowledgement! Receiving an acknowledgement of one's legacy reference would go a long way toward decreasing the sting of the legacy being released during rush. At least it gives the alum the courtesy of her feelings being acknowledged by the chapter as she extends a reference for someone who is more than a sorority sister to her-her daughter or her grand-daughter. Courtesy goes a long way in a person's social life as well as in business networking. Kudos to you and your Alpha Delta Pi chapter.

carnation 11-29-2017 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remiechi (Post 2428336)
My husband ran into a mom at the gym whose daughter is attending his SEC alma mater in fall and plans to go through recruitment. The mom tells him "she can't wait to meet the xyzs-she hears they're the best on campus!" I asked him "you mean the house that most every ppm ranks first? The house with the highest return rate, that takes their pick of the pnms? What did you say????" He told her "keep an open mind and give every house you are fortunate enough to be invited back to serious consideration" I trained him well!!

Remiechi, any idea what happened?

honeychile 11-29-2017 02:57 PM

Wow, clemsongirl, I have to say, that's probably the best response I've ever seen from a recommendation!

Remiechi 12-04-2017 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2448165)
Remiechi, any idea what happened?

That girl kept an open mind during rush and happily accepted her bid from Delta Zeta. But remember the Auburn girl whose mom told me she didn't need my rec because she already had ones for three or four chapters? Knowing the mom, I'm positive that those recs were for the very top, strongest recruiting chapters and they expected that the "lower" sororities were just places she'd visit first and second rounds. She ended up preffing houses that she never expected to return to, and was very disappointed in her bid. However, she stuck with it, was initiated and is an active, involved member.

carnation 07-29-2018 11:58 AM

Bumping for recruitment 2018-

AnchorAlum 08-18-2018 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remiechi (Post 2448610)
That girl kept an open mind during rush and happily accepted her bid from Delta Zeta. But remember the Auburn girl whose mom told me she didn't need my rec because she already had ones for three or four chapters? Knowing the mom, I'm positive that those recs were for the very top, strongest recruiting chapters and they expected that the "lower" sororities were just places she'd visit first and second rounds. She ended up preffing houses that she never expected to return to, and was very disappointed in her bid. However, she stuck with it, was initiated and is an active, involved member.

I've had a similar experience this year. Was told that my friend's daughter was most likely going into a certain house where she has friends, and they'd let me know if she needed a rec for DG.
We're in the top 4 at this school (not my Alma Mater) so at this point my thoughts are she's on her own as far as I'm concerned. The one she thinks she'll just get a bid to happens to be the supposed top house. She may get through, and I hope she is happy regardless. Sometimes you just have to graciously back away.

DaffyKD 08-18-2018 12:07 PM

One of my sister was the local Alumnae Panhellenic President. She told us about one of the gals who belong to the AP Group. The woman was a member of ABC sorority. The other women offered to write a rec for DD. Woman informed the other members of the AP their recs were not needed DD was going to pledge ABC or nothing. Have not heard the results of DD's recruitment.

DaffyKD

carnation 07-10-2019 09:59 PM

This one is always a good one to bump so---TTT!!!!

Soccermom 07-11-2019 07:41 AM

Hello everyone, I am new here and have laughed a lot reading these stories of girls thinking they have the option to choose.

I am actually having the opposite issue with my daughter. My sorority is very good at the school she is attending (SEC school). I have made sure she understands how the process works and made it clear that being a legacy guarantees her nothing. I have also made sure she understands that what was best for me 28 years ago at another university made not be where she finds her home and that this is her chance to really find her fit. There is no pressure to be the same as me.

Here’s where I need advice— we have “friends” that believe that they know everything there is to know about sororities and they have her completely freaked out. They have told her that she will be cut by the other houses because she is a legacy and that my sorority is pretty much impossible to get in to these days. She has friends in 5 of the 8 on campus and she has been working her connections— she has made sure she has a rec for every house and has told everyone that she is very excited about recruitment and going in with an open mind. She looks great on paper and her social media is clean. She’s trying to do everything right and instead of being the girl that is overconfident, she’s the one that thinks she’s going to be cut because of me. My advice to her has been to ignore those folks and to make sure she’s making good conversation in the house and making it clear that she has an open mind. Any other insight? What are your thoughts on her being cut simply because she’s a legacy?

carnation 07-11-2019 08:38 AM

Well, the answer to this is yes--and no. You're more likely to get a heavy legacy cut if you have a sitting sister in the house; this happened to one of my nieces. But you're in the South and you may be in one of the sororities that has ten thousand legacies coming through (you know which ones those are); the sororities won't just cut them all, because there are so many.

Tell her to focus on the rushers, to make eye contact with them, and try to have some great conversations. That's almost everything she can control at this point anyway!

33girl 07-11-2019 09:15 AM

If she has friends in 5 of the 8 groups, they hopefully know her well enough to know she has an open mind to all groups and isn’t making a beeline to your sorority only. And hopefully they’ll convey that during membership selection.

Soccermom - did you go to another SEC school or something totally different?

Soccermom 07-11-2019 10:55 AM

Thank you for your input. She has really worked to make sure that her friends know that she is interested in all the chapters and although they know we are very close she is interested in forging her own path. They have told her that they would advocate for her so hopefully that is true.
This is a school that I do feel will have alot of legacies, not just from my sorority but the other popular ones as well.
I thought the same thing in regards to the difference in a sister being active versus a mom from a totally different university.
I did not attend an SEC school.

carnation 09-05-2022 10:41 AM

I saw so many overconfident girls rush this year. None got the groups they wanted and several dropped out of recruitment. Sometimes, as an adult familiar with various school and their Greek systems, you see it coming and there's nothing you can do because they truly believe that their high school popularity, grades, and activities will get them in.


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