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-   -   FYI Disappointed Moms (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=121568)

Lightning Bug! 08-26-2011 01:42 PM

FYI Disappointed Moms
 
Dear disappointed moms,

Your daughter is the whole package, and you do not understand why she didn't get a bid. Other posters remind you that pretty much all the girls going through recruitment are the whole package and then some. They also remind you that your daughter should have (if she didn't) maximized her options in terms of being open to joining any chapter at a competitive school.

I see a common thread in your posts, or perhaps what I see is lack of a common realization. Especially at state schools, there is a great deal of networking going on that you aren't seeing. If you look at the Facebook pages of active members, often they are friends with PNMs months, if not years, before they go through recruitment. They know them from camp, church, school, or family. Their moms may know each other. Or some super helpful alumna calls up her friends who are close to the actives in XYZ house at Big SEC School and puts in a good word. You must also keep in mind that, at some chapters, a good portion of the new member class spent several weekends their senior year going to College Town and hanging out with girls from their high schools in part so they could meet girls in sororities or going as dates to their older (college aged) boyfriend's fraternity formal, where they meet sorority members.

Now many girls go through recruitment successfully without networking, but for every girl at a big SEC school who does this, there are two more who happen to know, at least casually, 25% of the chapter before recruitment even begins. Sometimes this works against them, if they are prone to really trashy or bitchy shenanigans, but often it works for them. But the point is, if your daughter is coming from a small town or out of state to a state school, and she doesn't know a bunch of people in sororities already, then that may have been a factor in her recruitment results. And that isn't something to beat yourself up about. She probably was the total package, but networking worked against her.

Now this doesn't get her a bid, but hopefully it will give you perspective. Again, many girls do go through recruitment successfully without the benefit of networking. I did it as an out-of-stater at a state school. It was hard. I didn't know anybody at my school. Not a soul. My mother just didn't know anybody connected with my school, so all she could do was make sure I had recs to every house possible. I still got heavy cuts after the second round, including at one house where I was a double legacy AND the great grand-daughter of a member who had founded a chapter. I had the whole package to boot. I got cut, because even with recs, nobody knew me, and those actives already knew enough girls coming through to fill four pledge classes. Yes, that's right. A majority of the girls at that chapter went to one of three big high schools and were counselors at one of four major camps, and they knew enough girls from school and camp to fill FOUR pledge classes. At another house, I only got asked back to pref because it turned out that a girl from my high school, older than I, had transferred there and fought for me. At the house I pledged, I was a legacy through my mother, I had a rec from a member of the top leadership at the sorority's national level, and it was a house that took a lot of out of state girls. Now I could have gone to my state's big flagship school and had a much easier time with rush, since I had friends in about half the houses there, but I wanted to go to Out-of-State U, and I never regretted that decision.

It is hard going through recruitment. Nobody here can tell you why your daughter got cut from a certain house. And this is not a call for you to become creepy helimom and start friending random girls from XYZ house on Facebook or get your daughter to do so, unless she is in a position to do so (knows a bunch from camp or something) and just hasn't bothered to friend them; then it would be time to clue her in to the power of networking. Nor is this post meant to discourage moms of girls who don't have connections in sororities already - there are plenty of girls who successfully go through recruitment without the benefit of networking. But know that at some super-competitive state schools, networking is a big part of recruitment.

Best wishes.

DeltaBetaBaby 08-26-2011 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Bug! (Post 2085061)
A majority of the girls at that chapter went to one of three big high schools and were counselors at one of four major camps,

Just out of curiosity, can you expand on this? I never had any non-Jewish friends who went to summer camp. Is it a big thing in some states?

Lightning Bug! 08-26-2011 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2085115)
Just out of curiosity, can you expand on this? I never had any non-Jewish friends who went to summer camp. Is it a big thing in some states?

Yes. If you look at girls camps in the Southeast (especially North Carolina) and Texas, the counselor bios often list their sorority. It isn't as if the counselors are running around camp with their letters on, but this becomes a great way to meet people outside your hometown/high school whom you will run into again (or even become a sister of) at college.

srmom 08-26-2011 03:56 PM

Mystic, Waldemar, Longhorn for girls, Stewart, La Junta, Longhorn for boys - Google those camp names, a predominance of Greeks at UT went to one of those camps.

carnation 08-26-2011 04:11 PM

Sticking this because it really explains a lot--

amIblue? 08-26-2011 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2085115)
Just out of curiosity, can you expand on this? I never had any non-Jewish friends who went to summer camp. Is it a big thing in some states?

My husband is one of seven, and they all went to summer camp, and so far, they have all sent their sons/daughters when they've gotten old enough to camp. They're not Jewish. They live in Atlanta, so I don't know if it's an Atlanta thing or what. Tons of their friends went, too. My husband has even randomly met people well into his adulthood that he went to camp with.

I went to camp growing up in Tennessee, but not that kind of extended, long summer camp like they did. I always got homesick. :o

ComradesTrue 08-26-2011 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Bug! (Post 2085119)
Yes. If you look at girls camps in the Southeast (especially North Carolina) and Texas, the counselor bios often list their sorority. It isn't as if the counselors are running around camp with their letters on, but this becomes a great way to meet people outside your hometown/high school whom you will run into again (or even become a sister of) at college.

In addition to this, if you attend camp for most of your childhood up through high school, then you will have had sufficient time to know the girls 1-2 years older than you that also attend that same camp every year. By the time you get to college, those girls may be actives on your campus.

Lightning Bug! 08-26-2011 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2085128)
Sticking this because it really explains a lot--

Glad others find it helpful. There's so much good advice that has been given on Greek Chat, but I just felt bad, seeing so many moms and PNMs come here thinking that their beautiful daughters/they were walking on to a level playing field. That just is not the case at many Southern schools, especially flagship state schools. Of course I hope this doesn't discourage girls without these connections from going through recruitment. I also know that this isn't going to help moms who then ask, "Okay, then what is it that helps "outsiders" navigate recruitment successfully?" Besides telling them that their daughters need to be absolutely outstanding to edge out all the known quantities going through recruitment, there's not much we can say. If your daughter can network gracefully (note the emphasis), then she should do so - it's a great life skill to have.

KSUViolet06 08-26-2011 05:13 PM

I'm not from a big SEC school, but I have posted about this very thing before.

There are exceptions, but I feel like the majority of girls who come to GC for advice are not really prepared in the netowrking sense for the type of school they're heading to.

Many times, they aren't children of Greeks, or they don't come from an area where many people go Greek in college. They don't go to HS where everyone graduates and goes Greek. They don't go to camp. People in their church aren't Greek.

So their parents fish out info on GC. Great. There is a lot of info here about the tangibles (grades, recs, activities) but not as much about conversation, networking, etc. So parents pass on info about tangibles or PNMs read up on it. They have all of the tangible stuff down pat (grades, recs, et.) So they figure they're golden, right? Not so much.

By nature of not knowing anyone who is greek, being a first gen. college student, being from out of state, or a small town, they are already at a disavantage at some of the bigger Greek schools no matter what tangible things they may have.

For example, let's say that ABC at Big Southern University has 100 members (not using big numbers because I'm tired.) Each of them personally knows 2 PNMs from church/camp/high school/etc. that they think would make great ABCs.

100 x 2 = 200 women that they vouch for and really want back for next round.

For the next round, they can only invite back say, 300. Out of that 300, there are 200 girls with personal connections whom members already know of and want.

Assuming that all 200 of those are issued an invite, that leaves just 100 spots for "newer" PNMs whom no one has heard of prior to recruitment.

My point is that personal connections are very important.

This is not to say that if you send Suzie to an all Greek staffed summer camp in the summer before senior year, she's a shoo-in.

But those PNMs who have attended camp, lived in the same neighborhood, gone to HS, and played softball since 6th grade with sorority members (and have developed relationships with them) do have an advantage.


This is just rambling, but feel free to flame, correct me, whatever.


SWTXBelle 08-26-2011 05:16 PM

One of the MOST IMPORTANT THINGS - REGISTER WITH YOUR ALUMNAE PANHELLENIC! Many of them have informative sessions that will help you or your daughter KNOW what to expect, plus you cannot beat them for getting recs. The vast majority of our Katy TX girls are NOT legacies yet they have successful recruitments. Some of it is just that they are 'complete packages' - attractive, intelligent, involved young women -(just like all the other pnms!) but the other part is knowing what to expect and being PREPARED.

KSUViolet06 08-26-2011 05:16 PM

Double posting, but I think the "preparing for recruitment since birth" thread touches on the networking topic a little bit:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ht=ding+winner

Disclaimer: no I don't think you should start prepping for recruitment since birth, but the thread does touch a little on the advantage of networking.

carnation 08-26-2011 05:23 PM

When I first moved to Mississippi for grad school, I noticed that all these PNMs from different towns seemed to know each other. I finally asked about it and the Greek Director told me all the ways that they would indeed have gotten to know each other...camp, visiting out-of-town relatives, cheer and dance workshops--the list went on and on.

Now I watch my husband's cousin's 10-year-old in Alabama and she's already doing that. By the pictures they send, I can tell that at that age, she's already creating networks various ways and I bet I can already predict the 3 sororities she's most likely to pledge if she goes to Auburn.

What can you do to meet Greeks ahead of time if you're not from in-state? Orientation is helpful to a point but also summer jobs (maybe at camps?) where you're likely to meet other university students can work; summer school is a huge help.

shirley1929 08-26-2011 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Bug! (Post 2085119)
It isn't as if the counselors are running around camp with their letters on, but this becomes a great way to meet people outside your hometown/high school whom you will run into again (or even become a sister of) at college.

Actually, they do. All those party shirts and rush tank-tops? Perfect items to throw in the bag to wear all summer while being a camp counselor. Hats, visors, socks...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blondie93 (Post 2085132)
In addition to this, if you attend camp for most of your childhood up through high school, then you will have had sufficient time to know the girls 1-2 years older than you that also attend that same camp every year. By the time you get to college, those girls may be actives on your campus.

Not to mention that by the time you've gone through all of this many of the older girls have become dear friends. You've lived with them for a month out of each year for the last 8 summers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2085150)
I'm not from a big SEC school, but I have posted about this very thing before.

There are exceptions, but I feel like the majority of girls who come to GC for advice are not really prepared in the netowrking sense for the type of school they're heading to.

Many times, they aren't children of Greeks, or they don't come from an area where many people go Greek in college. They don't go to HS where everyone graduates and goes Greek. They don't go to camp. People in their church aren't Greek.

So their parents fish out info on GC. Great. There is a lot of info here about the tangibles (grades, recs, activities) but not as much about conversation, networking, etc. So parents pass on info about tangibles or PNMs read up on it. They have all of the tangible stuff down pat (grades, recs, et.) So they figure they're golden, right? Not so much.

By nature of not knowing anyone who is greek, being a first gen. college student, being from out of state, or a small town, they are already at a disavantage at some of the bigger Greek schools no matter what tangible things they may have.

For example, let's say that ABC at Big Southern University has 100 members (not using big numbers because I'm tired.) Each of them personally knows 2 PNMs from church/camp/high school/etc. that they think would make great ABCs.

100 x 2 = 200 women that they vouch for and really want back for next round.

For the next round, they can only invite back say, 300. Out of that 300, there are 200 girls with personal connections whom members already know of and want.

Assuming that all 200 of those are issued and invite, that leaves just 100 spots for "newer" PNMs whom no one has heard of prior to recruitment.

My point is that personal connections are very important.

This is not to say that if you send Suzie to an all Greek staffed summer camp, she's a shoo-in. But those PNMs who have attended camp, lived in the same neighborhood, gone to HS, and played softball since 6th grade with sorority members (and have developed relationships with them) do have an advantage.

This is just rambling, but feel free to flame, correct me, whatever.


Pretty much spot-on here. Many of these people know these girls on a really deep personal level before summer (before college) begins because of all these connections. I'd contend that in some chapters, you take that 200 number and raise it almost to 300. Throw in some "unknown" legacies that you'd like to keep your eye on, and you're up to your 300 very quickly.

That's also why someone who is believed to be a "grade risk" might go further in a certain chapter than someone who isn't. Doesn't happen a whole ton, but girls who are well known can "be vouched for" just generally do better. Is it fair? No, sadly, it's not.

Can it work against you if you're Annoying Annie at camp/school/softball? Yes, but more often than not it works in the PNM's favor.

KSUViolet06 08-26-2011 05:38 PM

^^^Right.

We also see a lot of "My Suzie graduated with a 4.0 and was cut by ABC but Roommate Ronda got a bid and she has a 3.6. What gives?"

It's very possible that Ronda knows a ton of ABCs from dance and has been seeing them/hanging out with them at dance camp since they were 14.

As a sidenote, a lot of PNMs will say "how did I get cut? I knew a ton of ABCs." The issue here is maybe they didn't like you or consider you to be a friend they'd like to see in their letters.

You also have to remember the sheer number of other PNMs who know just as many ABCs as you do.

That's why it's important not to focus on just ONE group when meeting people. Try to meet people and build relationships with people from different groups. And keep an open mind.

shirley1929 08-26-2011 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2085161)
^^^Right.

We also see a lot of "My Suzie graduated with a 4.0 and was cut by ABC but Roommate Ronda got a bid and she has a 3.6. What gives?"

It's very possible that Ronda knows a ton of ABCs from dance and has been seeing them/hanging out with them at dance camp since they were 14.

As a sidenote, a lot of PNMs will say "how did I get cut? I knew a ton of ABCs." The issue here is maybe they didn't like you or consider you to be a friend they'd like to see in their letters.

You also have to remember the sheer number of other PNMs who know just as many ABCs as you do.

That's why it's important not to focus on just ONE group when meeting people. Try to meet people and build relationships with people from different groups. And keep an open mind.

Exactly. I think many people want to believe that sorority recruitment is utopian and merit-based. In that world, the absolute top girls in grades/looks/convo/extras/recs would be offered their pick of all houses each round because of their perfect-ness. Unfortunately, it's quite a bit more complicated than that.

LGN1212 08-26-2011 05:58 PM

Amen. There would be a lot fewer unhappy little girls around right now if it was better understood that the sorority world is a meritocracy only up to a point and that you'd better have your expectations in check before you show up as an unknown out-of-state PNM at a big state school recruitment. The numbers are really brutal unless you're a Christie Brinkley look-alike with good party BS and a Rhodes scholar-in-waiting resume.

I'm the first to admit that I benefitted from my family's connections by staying in state, but it's really not a very healthy process in many ways and it's refreshing to see people fess up to it a bit.

KSUViolet06 08-26-2011 06:02 PM

Absolutely, and it's not just SEC schools, either.

I've dealt with quite a few smaller schools where I think the networking aspect is just as important. Especially with deferred recruitment.


Smaller School Deferred Recruitment Example:

ABC has had ALL FALL SEMESTER to interact with PNMs.

Let's say the chapter has 50 women in it.

By the time recruitment rolls around, each of them has 2 PNMs that they've known all fall (and some longer if they're sophs and junior PNMs.)

That's 100 women already coming back. If they can only extend say, 130 invites, you've got 30 spots for "new" PNMs they've never seen. That's not a lot.

The women who get involved during fall semester, meet sorority women (through hall activities, work on campus, other clubs, sports) and form relationships have the advantage in spring.

Suzie who never really left her dorm first semester, but has a 4.0, might get passed over for Polly PNM who is in band with a ton of ABC and spent all fall hanging out with them, but has a 3.3.

KSUViolet06 08-26-2011 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LGN1212 (Post 2085164)
Amen. There would be a lot fewer unhappy little girls around right now if it was better understood that the sorority world is a meritocracy only up to a point and that you'd better have your expectations in check before you show up as an unknown out-of-state PNM at a big state school recruitment. The numbers are really brutal unless you're a Christie Brinkley look-alike with good party BS and a Rhodes scholar-in-waiting resume.

I'm the first to admit that I benefitted from my family's connections by staying in state, but it's really not a very healthy process in many ways and it's refreshing to see people fess up to it a bit.

I think that's where open mindedness comes in. At the vast majority of schools, you really can have a GREAT experience in any chapter. If you're a PNM from out-of-state, or you're a transfer, or you just don't know many greeks, you can't go in only focusing on a handful. Really, no one should, but it's double important for the PNMs we're describing.

shirley1929 08-26-2011 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2085166)
I think that's where open mindedness comes in. At the vast majority of schools, you really can have a GREAT experience in any chapter. If you're a PNM from out-of-state, or you're a transfer, or you just don't know many greeks, you can't go in only focusing on a handful. Really, no one should, but it's double important for the PNMs we're describing.

Well, and here's the BIG problem with Suzie with the 4.0 and the utopian, merit-based line of thinking...

Suzie with the 4.0 who thinks it's a meritocracy & should get whatever she wants because she's the epitome of "perfect-ness" (grades/recs/cute/extras). She's ALWAYS gotten what she wants because of her perfect-ness. Life, up & to this point HAS pretty much been a meritocracy. Top softball player? On the varsity squad. Smartest person in the room? Valedictorian. Most beautiful? Homecoming queen (ok, not everywhere, but maybe "Most Beautiful" in the yearbook?). You get the idea.

This is their first time faced with something that they can't obtain just by being "the best".


ETA: I re-read & I'm using a little hyperbole here, I know.

KSUViolet06 08-26-2011 06:25 PM

Sidenote: I SO wish this thread was made before recruitment season kicked off and all of the big recruitments started. It would have been so helpful.

tigerfanx5 08-26-2011 06:35 PM

^^ That's what I was going to say too! It would be really helpful if potential PNM's (and parents) would read this thread in the months prior to rush.

Networking is a huge part of the system... just like most things in life, it's important to learn how to play the game to be successful.

kddani 08-26-2011 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LGN1212 (Post 2085164)
There would be a lot fewer unhappy little girls around right now

This is part of the problem. They're not little girls. They're women. They're adults. Yes, they are young, but they need to figure things out in the world. Learn that life isn't fair. Learning to be prepared. Learning to keep an open mind to the world of possibility. These aren't just things related to sororities and recruitment- these are life skills that these women need to learn.

Optimus Prime 08-26-2011 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kddani (Post 2085178)
This is part of the problem. They're not little girls. They're women. They're adults. Yes, they are young, but they need to figure things out in the world. Learn that life isn't fair. Learning to be prepared. Learning to keep an open mind to the world of possibility. These aren't just things related to sororities and recruitment- these are life skills that these women need to learn.

I agree with this. Life is full of disappointments. They need to get over that the sense of entitlement like the "should I promise a large donation of money so they'll accept my pretty princess" as was demonstrated in another thread. While rejection is hard, it's something that will have to be dealt with more than a few times in someone's life.

SN: I'm sick of all these parents on here trying to "fix" everything for their daughters that don't have a successful recruitment. I understand wanting to help but it seems like there's a lot of parents on here asking what to do instead of their children. My mother would've told me to act like an adult and deal with it myself.

UGAalum94 08-26-2011 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2085171)
Sidenote: I SO wish this thread was made before recruitment season kicked off and all of the big recruitments started. It would have been so helpful.


I'm not sure anyone would have read it then.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great thread. I think it's spot on. But so often here, nobody knows that we're talking to them until it's too late.

Or maybe they would have read, and you all would have spent the summer explaining that the summer after high school is a little late to go to these camps for the first time.

For whatever it's worth, I don't see a whole lot of summer camp action with the girls from here, but I'm kind of in the yankee suburbs.

KSUViolet06 08-26-2011 08:28 PM



That's why I ended my post with a note saying that sending Suzy to camp the summer before senior year is not going to get her a bid. I knew I had to include that because I can FEEL a parent out there thinking that exact thought.

Or pushing Suzy to try out for dance as a junior because all the dance girls pledge ABC at college and she needs to get in with the senior girls NOW.

I just know someone is thinking it. lol.


Benzgirl 08-26-2011 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Bug! (Post 2085119)
Yes. If you look at girls camps in the Southeast (especially North Carolina) and Texas, the counselor bios often list their sorority. It isn't as if the counselors are running around camp with their letters on, but this becomes a great way to meet people outside your hometown/high school whom you will run into again (or even become a sister of) at college.


I didn't know there were Jewish camps until my boss started telling stories of how he was a counselor at one. I always went to a non-denominational, but didn't know it then. I just know there were kids of all religions there.

I agree with what the OP says about summer camps. WHile the one I went to was not at all elite and was a mixture of all socio-economic classes (they had "camperships" for children who couldn't afford it), we saw the same kids year after year. Most were from a 25 mile radius but many were from further out. Fast-forward to college....guess who I ran into during recruitment? Many of the campers I knew from 10 years prior.

I didn't realize I was networking at 8 years old.

amIblue? 08-26-2011 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzgirl (Post 2085212)
I didn't realize I was networking at 8 years old.

Exactly. Some parents are very savvy to this and direct their children toward activities that are designed for meeting the "right" kinds of friends; for other children it happens more serendipitously, but networking is exactly what's going on.

Lightning Bug! 08-26-2011 09:40 PM

Not to derail the camp thing (since I brought it up), but the College Town visits are pretty significant also. From my recent rec writing for UGA girls, a LOT of those girls have spent time in Athens before Fall semester. Or at beach weekends with sorority members. Younger and older members of the same soccer team, or church group, or camp, or just same high school...whatever the situation. Or a senior in high school went to some fraternity ball with an older guy friend and met sisters there. I absolutely am not making dirty rushing accusations, because this is just friendship that goes back before anything that could be considered dirty rushing. And no, it doesn't happen with every PNM or sorority. But it happens a LOT more than I imagined it did - and I would have been in trouble if I had rushed at UGA in 2011, because my mama would NEVER have let me go off to Athens unchaperoned before my freshman year of college! :p


Anyway, probably this thread should be entitled "The Power of Networking," and yes, it would be great if helimoms read it, but as you all have pointed out, it is too late to do anything about networking if you are two weeks away from recruitment. I just hope that it gives moms some perspective, and they can prepare their daughters, for just what the playing field looks like. Again, this should NOT discourage anyone from rushing - it just helps explain the field better so daughters don't wonder what they did wrong. At some competitive schools, one time out of ten it is bad rushing game (shy, obnoxious, rude) or reputation, one time out of ten it is grades or non-freshman status, one time out of ten it is not maximizing their options, and seven times out of ten it is that there wasn't anyone in the house who already knew you and fought for you (or not enough people to fight for you). That's all. PNM likely didn't do anything wrong. She just didn't have the power of networking working for her.

Low C Sharp 08-26-2011 10:17 PM

Quote:

I've dealt with quite few smaller schools where I think the networking aspect is just as important.
This is how it works in the Ivy League, too. The eating clubs at Princeton, final clubs at Harvard, secret societies at Yale and Penn...people went to camp and prep school and Head of the Charles together their whole lives. Their dads brought them to football games and reunions and they met their dads' friends and their dads' friends' kids. Sure, some unknown people impress the members as freshmen and get invited to join, but a lot of club spots are effectively spoken for before anyone gets to college.

MysticCat 08-27-2011 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amIblue? (Post 2085224)
Exactly. Some parents are very savvy to this and direct their children toward activities that are designed for meeting the "right" kinds of friends . . . .

Which brings its own problems.

Parents can and should provide, to their best of their abilities, opportunities for their kids to make a wide circle of friends not because it will help them meet the "right" kinds of people, but simply because it leads to a richer life.

Lightning Bug! 08-27-2011 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2085390)
Which brings its own problems.

Parents can and should provide, to their best of their abilities, opportunities for their kids to make a wide circle of friends not because it will help them meet the "right" kinds of people, but simply because it leads to a richer life.

Super Like!!!

The most insecure people I know are the ones whose parents pushed them to meet the "right" kind of people.

But as you say, networking can lead to a richer life. Support systems are invaluable. And in this age of great mobility post-graduation, networking with a "richer life" as the end goal is such a huge bonus. Very nicely put.

carnation 08-27-2011 01:07 PM

What they said!:):):)

DeltaBetaBaby 08-27-2011 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen (Post 2085418)
I'd like to stick in here what was mentioned in another thread, that sometimes women are calling home, venting to their moms, but really, they ARE okay. They are disappointed, but they might be coping way better than you assume. So while mom is going "OMG my daughter is depressed and can't stop crying and her life is falling apart." because that's what you're hearing, when in reality, she may get off the phone, dry her eyes and go hang out with some friends she made on her floor or something. She may not be the puddle of sad you think.

I think another thing to realize is that, even at big Greek schools, Greeks are rarely the majority of the student body. So, while you may picture your daughter sitting in her dorm room while every other woman is busy with her new chapter, that just isn't the case at very many places. It is much more likely that you could walk through that dorm and see the vast majority of students chilling out during bid day.

KSUViolet06 08-27-2011 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2085424)
I think another thing to realize is that, even at big Greek schools, Greeks are rarely the majority of the student body. So, while you may picture your daughter sitting in her dorm room while every other woman is busy with her new chapter, that just isn't the case at very many places. It is much more likely that you could walk through that dorm and see the vast majority of students chilling out during bid day.

Right.

It's hard to see that when at some schools, you spend the entirety of recruitment in the dorms early with no one else but other PNMs surrounded by recruitment and recruitment talk.

Even at the BIGGEST Greek schools in the country, the majority of the student body isn't Greek.

So you might spend that entire week in the dorms feeling sad if things don't go the way you'd like, but come move-in weekend, you'll be surrounded by the other 80% of the student bodywho couldn't care less and plenty of other things to do.

Lightning Bug! 08-27-2011 02:21 PM

^^^Yes, so...

Disappointed moms, if you suspect lack of networking was a big part of what worked against your daughter during recruitment, then encourage her to GET INVOLVED on campus and in College Town so she can start learning about the power of building connections through participation in various communities. It will serve her well for the rest of her life!

Benzgirl 08-27-2011 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amIblue? (Post 2085224)
Exactly. Some parents are very savvy to this and direct their children toward activities that are designed for meeting the "right" kinds of friends; for other children it happens more serendipitously, but networking is exactly what's going on.

Absolutely not!

This wasn't at all about meeting the "right" kinds of friends. It was about going to summer camp and meeting "new" friends. My parents had absolutely no agenda; I attended a camp run by a community center geared at "inclusion". It was probably the exact opposite of what you are thinking.

Needless to say, I still run into kids that attended summer camp and they are everything from doctors to ministers to factory workers.

Benzgirl 08-27-2011 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2085390)
Which brings its own problems.

Parents can and should provide, to their best of their abilities, opportunities for their kids to make a wide circle of friends not because it will help them meet the "right" kinds of people, but simply because it leads to a richer life.


Thank you, MC! You know exactly what my parents were thinking.

amIblue? 08-27-2011 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2085390)
Which brings its own problems.

Parents can and should provide, to their best of their abilities, opportunities for their kids to make a wide circle of friends not because it will help them meet the "right" kinds of people, but simply because it leads to a richer life.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

amIblue? 08-27-2011 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzgirl (Post 2085468)
Absolutely not!

This wasn't at all about meeting the "right" kinds of friends. It was about going to summer camp and meeting "new" friends. My parents had absolutely no agenda; I attended a camp run by a community center geared at "inclusion". It was probably the exact opposite of what you are thinking.

Needless to say, I still run into kids that attended summer camp and they are everything from doctors to ministers to factory workers.

I didn't mean that I think this is the right thing to do. I'm just saying that there are those types of parents in the world. We'd be foolish to think otherwise. All that being said, children whose parents allowed them to partake in activities over the years that in some way allowed them to make friends whether it be camp, sports, dance, etc., are better equipped to dealing with recruitment. (Which I think is the point of what's being said.)

MysticCat 08-27-2011 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Bug! (Post 2085414)
But as you say, networking can lead to a richer life.

I'm glad you agree with the rest of what I said, but I didn't say this and I wouldn't say this. I except in a purely business sense, I absolutely detest the term "networking." (Actually, I detest it in a business sense as well, but I can agree that the concept has some place there.)

Making friends, in my book, is not the same as networking. My connotation of networking is something that's all about "me" and what "I" can get out of it. Networking is not about making genuine friends, it's about making contacts that I can use to help me get where I want to be and do what I want to do.

I try not to use the word, and I try not to engage in the practice.


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