Indiana University Tri Delta Closed
 

http://fox59.com/2017/03/04/indiana-...ity-shut-down/

Just announced today. Wonder if any more information will come out in later reports. Hopefully their new members haven't been initiated yet.

No, they have not initiated.

Wow! That is a stunner. I wonder what happened - especially since it was nationals that pulled the charter, not IU.

(To into perspective how rare this is: the last time an IU NPC sorority was closed was AOPi in the mid-1990s - maybe around 1995 or 1996. They returned around 2000.)

I wonder what's going to happen with their house. They have a beautiful old house on Third Street. I wonder if Nationals will keep it, lease it out to another group, or sell it. (I'm sure IU would just love to have that property.)

It's possible that they will keep the house and recharter in a few years.

Here's a follow-up story from the IDS today. Surprise surprise - the change.org petition was started by the mother of one of the members.:rolleyes:

fwap fwap fwap...and would Mommy have complained to 3D if her daughter had not been bid to tri delta? ;)

It states that the chapter was on probation so they have had problems before the comments on the computer came up. The chapter knows more than they are telling the parents in my opinion.

Considering a lawyer has been looked into, sounds like Mom(s) has been on greekchat reading Kevin's posts regarding throwing the babies out with the bathwater/closing a chapter based on the actions of the naughty people and hurting the nice people.

I'll say it again - how are these girls not dying from embarrassment at their parents doing stuff like this?

Oh sweet baby Jesus.. I don't even care anymore whether Tri-Delt was in the wrong. Moms are lawyering up? What do they think they're going to do? Sue the school or Tri Delta to force them to open a chapter that the school and Tri Delt want closed?

https://media.giphy.com/media/2fs2I4ujlBf20/giphy.gif

Well they may have glossed over the part where I always say that the organizations are private entities which can close chapters for good reasons or bad reasons and that's the final word.

What I'm usually talking about is public schools thinking they have more power than they really have.

Wow, that was painful to read.

Our daughters are confused and sad! Please reinstate the chapter! You can't throw someone in jail and not tell them why!!!!1!!1!!!!!

Oh please. Here we go again. I've said this many times in the past, when chapters have been closed and their charters revoked by their headquarters, and there's an outcry of "not fair!" "wrong" "let's sue" blah blah blah. There but for the grace of God go you and I. We have all had painful chapter closings. We don't need to know the details; it's not our business (telling that to those parents). *annoyed sigh and eyeroll*

LOOK: no fraternity or sorority makes the decision to "pull" a charter lightly. It comes after all other interventions have been tried, often for several years, and have not succeeded. The women in this IU chapter know full well why the charter was revoked. It didn't come out of the blue, for no reason, on a whim.

Know this, too: it is painful for everyone involved, most especially those who have to make the decision to close the chapter. Trust me on this. Tri Delta is a stellar organization and I believe they made this decision after trying every possible solution to turn the chapter around.

The court of public opinion matters not. These are private membership organizations; they have their constitution and bylaws which regulate their actions. As long as they are following their own procedures and rules, the courts are not going to get involved. I've gotten a few threatening letters from attorneys and parents myself, and it all was for nothing.

In other words, the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on. Or, as my father would say (and I'd say to those members) "you burned your butt, you sit on the blister". Too bad, so sad. I've seen it too many times. The actives know why this happened.

Dear Special Snowflake Moms - In case you weren't aware, Tri Delta is not governed by the United States Constitution. They are governed by their own system, and unless that system is in violation of laws of this country or the chapter's state, they can do whatever the hell they want to their chapter.

I say this to the actives that I advise all the time. Unless the sorority is breaking the law, sorority rules are what govern the organization. I had one girl who said to me that she didn't think it was fair that she wasn't allowed to vote in chapter elections because she was on academic probation. Her argument was that even prisoners in some states are allowed to vote. I said 1) we aren't voting for elected officials of the country, so the country's voting laws do not apply. And 2) prisoners are only allowed to vote in like Rhode Island, so go there if you don't like it.

I also had a 22-year old woman's mother call me 2 weeks ago because she felt that her daughter was being isolated from the group and excluded because she lost an election for a position. GIVE ME A BREAK! Let your adult children handle their own business for Pete's sake!

+1+1+1

If this 22-year-old daughter thinks it's appropriate in any way to get mommy to fight her battles for her, mother has failed as a parent (unless your kid has special needs or something). This episode simply reeks of over-privileged little shits who can't process life sometimes sucking. What kind of future professionals/mothers/etc. are these parents trying to raise? How are these women going to interact with the world when they are in their 30s and 40s?

The facts behind all this have not been disclosed. So these moms have a right to be pissed off. Keep in mind that several years of membership in this organization represents a significant financial investment totaling thousands of dollars-- dues, initiation fees, house charges, fines, assessments, clothes, etc. At the very least, they deserve from the national organization an accurate explanation of what happened. The people most damaged are the newest members, who joined without knowing that the chapter was about to end.

I disagree strongly with your opinion.

The moms don't have any "rights" to be anything here, nor do they "deserve an accurate explanation of what happened" because that is chapter business. 18 is the legal age of majority in Indiana. That means at that age, a person is considered to be an adult, regardless of who is footing the bill, period. Parents may be paying dues (or what have you); however, that does not entitle them to know any of the private workings of a private organization. Universities don't discuss students with their parents. There's no "right to know" based on dollars spent. End of discussion.

As for your assertion that "the facts behind all this have not been disclosed", I ask you: why should Tri Delta or any other private membership organization have any obligation to make disciplinary matters public? Membership is voluntary. It comes with significant responsibilities and obligations. No one in any chapter is being held hostage, to the best of my knowledge.

Further, I don't see it reported anywhere that the actives have lost their membership in Tri Delta. The new members have been released, not having been initiated.

From an alumni-adviser's standpoint, you couldn't be more wrong. I've not yet had a member's parent contact me regarding anything. The only time I've had direct contact with parents was a few years back when we had an active member pass away.

Chapter members are likely completely aware of why their chapter was shut down. There was probably some sort of process and notification as to what facts the organization was relying on to shutter the chapter.. or there might not have been and it's no one's business but the members of the organization.

If my job description included dealing with parents, they'd have to give me a salary to do it.

Yes, these young women know exactly what went down to earn them probation and then having their charter pulled. It is costly to lose a chapter-emotionally and financially, and it is not done without merit.

This is exactly what I was thinking as I was reading the parents' complaints, which basically imply that Tri Delta closed this chapter down for no reason. Just because they felt like it. :rolleyes:

Let's be serious - closing a chapter can cause issues for an organization as a whole. Money lost, time consumed, housing complications, less interest and support from alumnae, potentially a hit to the org's reputation, and having to listen to complaints from members and/or their helicopter parents.

What organization would want to do that to itself.. just because?

Disagreeing with me is okay. But I must point out that your disagreement is based on speculation about the facts behind the chapter's termination. The article contains only innuendo. Generally, all the national organization must to do is establish that it acted in good faith and in accordance with its governing documents and contractual agreements with the chapter and chapter members, if any. Of course I could be completely wrong because this is pure speculation by me since I don't know the state where the national organization is incorporated,or knowledge of any of the underlying facts or the organization's governing documents or agreements.

The girls in this chapter may legally be adults but I would never expect 18 to 22 year-olds to know how to effectively assert their rights or even know what those right are. And there is nothing wrong in getting help from their parents. People in the 40s get help from their parents all the time. Oh - and nothing in this post should in any way be construed as legal opinion or legal advice.

If you're talking to me, you need to re-read what I wrote. My disagreement with you is not based on speculation about the facts which led to the revocation of the charter. AAMOF I didn't say anything at all about what the reason for the charter revocation was. Read my remarks again, carefully. I didn't reference the article, either. And you yourself are speculating, which is somewhat annoying, given the context of your post. It almost seems like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You know?

Let me simplify what I said:

1) parents don't have rights in this situation.
2) chapter business is internal.
3) 18 is the age of majority and you can look up the legal definition of same.

At 18 I was more than capable of asserting my rights, and I knew what they were. You underestimate this generation. As for the people in their 40s comment, I really don't have anything to say to you about that. :eek:

If you're talking to Kevin as well, he's more than capable of responding to you, if he so chooses. I don't think anything you say resembles legal opinion or legal advice, but thanks for the disclaimer.

PS it's grammAr, not grammEr.

The discussion is not about you or your capabilities. Chapter business is indeed internal until the courts get involved, then it's public. Age of majority is irrelevant. Kids have rights in these situation and they generally do not know what they are. Parents are acting as agents of their kids in situations like this. Oh yeah, if parents weren't footing the bill, virtually no Greek group could survive.

I feel really badly for the new members here. They probably weren't aware that they were signing a bid to a group on the verge of being shut down. I guess it's good that they weren't initiated yet, but do they stand a reasonable chance of being able to join another group?

As far as the NMs not knowing - IU is a deferred rush school. They had a semester to get to know what was what. The fact that Tri Delt was on probation was definitely not secret.

As far as their chances to join another group, that probably depends a lot on their previous conduct and connections they have made at IU. It also depends on how much they have bonded as a pledge class unit (i. e. if they all want to go somewhere else as a group).

It’s sort of a Catch-22, though. Aren’t people here constantly advising PNMs not to listen to tent talk/gossip/rumors? And one of the examples commonly given of such a rumor not to listen to is “Don’t join XYZ, they’re about to get shut down.” So, if IU PNMs had heard this about Tri-Delta, how were they supposed to know whether this was a true statement, or just part of the sorority gossip mill?

No, you're still wrong. Do some research. My words are falling on deaf ears. I know why.

Have a nice day.

What's your legal theory as to how this case could ever go to court, counselor?

Do you think an organization such as Tri Delt is going to write its own bylaws in such a manner as to create an express or implied contract guaranteeing members the right to remain active members until they finish college regardless of what Headquarter's decision is regarding the chapter's charter?

That sort of speculation would assume, of course, that Tri Delt's governing board likes being sued and that they should probably all be fired.

I guarantee that all of the members of Indiana Tri Delta know exactly the reasons, and they are not telling Mama because they don't want Mama to know. It's easier to say, "They are being mean" or "we are in trouble but they won't tell us why" than to come clean. No chapter is getting shut down over one small infraction or because one person did something. Thriving chapters (i.e., those not shut for numbers and finances) get shut because of pervasive and systemic problems that the actives choose to "un-address" over time. They were on probation for a reason. They continued to do whatever it was that got them on national probation, and now they are gone. To think that Tri Delta Nationals would shut any chapter, much less a large chapter on a large Greek campus with a huge house over a whim is ludicrous.

I used to be a chapter advisor, and believe me, when they messed up, they knew exactly why. Because we told them, just in case they forgot.

In reply to Kevin above:

1) Of course there is no guarantee of continued existence at a particular school while the member is attending.

2) I am sure that Tri Delt is managed competently. So any speculation below is general discussion and of course not directed at them or intended to imply in any way that they did not act properly.

3) There are not enough known facts to determine (or even speculate) whether there is a grounded cause of action that can be successfully maintained.

Without reference to any particular organization or fact pattern, I can nevertheless state that there is usually something that can be alleged in pleading that is actionable. Proving the case is an entirely different matter. For starters, nonprofit corporations are treated different from for profit corporations - assuming that the organization is incorporated. (Though unlikely, there may still be some organizations that are still unincorporated associations.) Anyway, depending on where the nonprofit corporation was incorporated, members likely have statutory rights.

A typical court case against a nonprofit would likely start with a demand by a member to inspect books and records coupled with a pre-suit deposition/discovery action to investigate a potential claim. The following Texas statute governing nonprofit corporations is typical: "A member of a corporation, on written demand stating the purpose of the demand, is entitled to examine and copy at the member's expense, in person or by agent, accountant, or attorney, at any reasonable time and for a proper purpose, the books and records of the corporation relevant to that purpose." Texas also has has provisions for pre-suit depositions so that a potential plaintiff can discover facts before actually filing suit. Many other states have similar provisions.

Essentially, what a potential plaintiff would be looking for in pre-suit discovery is for any act that would support a legal theory based on expressed or implied contract (or promise) or any act of bad faith. Examples would be a promise (you do this and we will do that) that was broken or was made in bad faith; a promise/contract/condition made with a significant contributor not being kept. That kind of stuff.

4) Again - we do not know what went on in the particular Tri Delt case discussed above. I do agree that it is likely that the members know exactly why their chapter was closed and, unless proven otherwise, that Tri Delt management most likely acted properly.

These moms should educate themselves on sorority membership. Nobody is guaranteed anything. There's no contract. As for their significant financial investment, well, if these women can afford to hire an attorney because their sorority chapter closed, I'm not all that concerned with their level of financial stability. Moral of this whole story is that chapter can claim ignorance all they want, but they were already on probation until 2019, and you can only push so far before your national pushes back.

Anyone can sue for anything. If one of those parents wants to pay a lawyer to conduct some pre-suit discovery, I suppose, power to 'em. That's tens of thousands of dollars for nothing. Fraternal organizations are structured with multiple layers and semi-independent structures for good cause. The chapter itself in Indiana is inactive and probably has no assets.

Generally, the real and personal property are owned by a house corporation which acts independently of the chapter.

I cannot think of a plausible cause of action under any set of facts against a sorority by a member or the parent of a member for ceasing operations at a particular facility for good cause or bad cause.

I guess I could see a potential claim of bad faith against the chapter or against the officers individually in the chapter if they deceived pledges into initiating into an organization they knew would be shut down... but 1) how do you quantify damages and 2) would you want to ruin your reputation by bringing a law suit which would probably be picked up and distributed for national media consumption by the tort reform activists?

The following is general discussion using hypothetical facts. It is not a discussion about any particular person or organization.

Unfortunately, there are some very wealthy people who pay attorney fees with the same degree of pain that we pay our Starbucks bill. For something like this, the multi-layering would likely be ignored.

And sometimes it is owned by the college.

Here's one (and there are others): A fact pattern establishing estoppel. In this example, the party against whom estoppel is claimed must do or say something calculated or intended to induce another party to believe that certain facts exists and induces the other party to act on that belief and change his position in reliance on those facts, thereby, incurring some injury. Possible hypothetical fact pattern could be that a national organization places a chapter on probation and mandates that the chapter follow its rehabilitation plan and if completed successfully, the chapter would be in good standing and off probation. Chapter works hard and completes the plan successfully, then the chapter is shut down anyway. Possible cause of action for estoppel. May or may not be successful, but it is a cause of action.

That's why an attorney would bring a pre-suit discovery action. They would drop the case prior to filing suit (avoiding sanctions for frivolous filing) if they could not develop facts to support a plausible claim. The action would probably not be brought in tort or law, but likely brought in equity so that the court would be empowered to grant equitable relief (e.g., injunction, specific performance or court ordering the national organization to do something). In other words, the goal would not be to get money damages, but to get the court to order the national to undo what it did.

After reading most of the comments on petition, one comment stood out was -"Work with the house and help the girls make it better. Best bet is to model proper conflict resolution." At the end of the day, Tri Delta is a private organization and if HQ pulled the charter, the reasons are valid.

Okay, I have read through all of your posts, and I have to just say that as an alumna of the organization in question, I disagree with nearly everything you have said. First of all, chapter business is just that: chapter business. The women who are/were members of the chapter very clearly know what is wrong, since they were placed on probation. Our Executive Office is good at communicating with chapters, and if there is something that needs to be corrected, then they will tell them to correct it. Also, chapter business is NOT the business of the mothers of the members. The mothers are not active members of the chapter, and they most likely do not know about the internal affairs, policies, and bylaws of the chapter.

Second, the women of the chapter know what they are getting into when they join. I'm not going to go into it because it is chapter business, but the expectations for every member is clearly laid out. The new members have not been initiated, so it is not as if they were initiated and are now stuck on campus without a chapter. They are free to join another sorority.

And third, what occurred within the chapter is between the chapter and Executive Office. No one is owed an explanation of why the chapter was shut down, and furthermore, our EO did provide an explanation. Just because it is not detailed does not mean that it isn't an explanation. Private chapter business is just that-private. No mother is owed an explanation, same as alumni that were not involved. It is between the chapter members and EO.

And those of us who have been in involved beyond college know that no NPC organization is going to close a chapter at Indiana University without very good reasons. It is a huge financial hit to lose a chapter of that size. It can be a reputational hit to not be on a campus like IU. There are thousands of upset alumnae when a chapter of this caliber is closed. The risks have to outweigh the benefits for a chapter to be closed and the benefits of chapters at IU are huge.

Without having any idea what led to the closing, I know it had to be major.

That is an absolutely gorgeous house (I guess most of them are, I'm just not familiar with that area)! The girls who have not been initiated hadn't move into the house, right? I'm shuddering at the thought of however many young women having to hustle to find housing (at this time of year, weatherwise) when that campus has everybody live in the houses. BG's house was smaller and she always had an apartment.

I would wager that making the young women move out has to do with insurance and liability issues. An important lesson of decisions having consequences.

The new member classes at IU do not move in chapter houses until the following fall. Over the past few years, when a fraternity at IU has been closed they have had to move out of their house within 30 days or less. I do not know if the Tri Delta women were given until the rest of the semester, I have not heard for sure one way or the other.

Try looking at it this way. Say your daughter was on a campus dance team where she had to buy her own uniform, attend a weeklong camp over the summer, and pay partial costs for travel to the places the team performed. All of a sudden, the team gets shut down and the girls have no way of recouping the money. No reason is given except some vague corporatespeak. As a parent, wouldn't you be angry?

I agree that these women are adults & that this is their fight, and probably didn't tell their parents everything, and that there's certainly some fwap fwapping. But to pooh-pooh all the parents' feelings, especially when many of them were probably paying the (not cheap) sorority dues, is just not realistic. Step out of thinking about it as a sorority member and think about it as a parent. Whether or not they have a legal right to feel that way, it's perfectly understandable that they do.

And I COMPLETELY disagree that chapter alumnae who weren't involved, whatever "involved" means, don't deserve a full explanation. That's along the same lines as saying alumnae who aren't advising or active in an alum chapter shouldn't be allowed to write recs.