So, recs...
 

I have such mixed feelings about recs.

As I mentioned in another thread this week, they are not used to introduce Miss Upper Class Clara to some preppy sorority. If she's everything they want, they already know about her. If you believe that that's all sorority recs are good for, you probably believe that sororities have nude pillow fights every night.

They can be very useful. A solid rec from someone who knows a small-town girl can let a chapter want to know more about her and possibly lead to a bid. They can also warn us about a PNM who is likely to cause trouble in countless ways. I have only written 3 no-recs in all these years and have gotten thankful calls from 2 chapters who had not known about both girls' arrests for aggravated assault. Twice each.

They can also be worthless. Many PNMs are finding recs online now from various Greek parent groups, and a rec from a total stranger who knows nothing about a girl's character does a chapter no good, especially if a girl is "toxic". See the last paragraph.

Required by the national group or not, recs will still be utilized by sororities. There are still too many women who come into recruitment who are unknown by the chapters, like out-of-state women. It's hard, though, to trust some rec writers.

What are your thoughts?

I only know about my group, but we've had these - originally called sponsor forms - since we were founded. The founders, Anna, Eva, and Mary, designed it so that young women had to have a sponsor for membership in Delta Gamma. I can't see going against that.

I said in the other thread, I'd love it if recs were just from someone a PNM knows personally who can attest to her activities, character, personality etc and could be from anyone they know - boss, teacher, coach, pastor - and not just a sorority alum from that sorority.



At the minimum, opening it up so that any sorority alum could write a rec for a PNM for every sorority at their school, as long as they know the PNM personally, would improve things. One alum could write a rec for a girl and send it to Panhel and the rec is sent to every chapter. It would make it easier on the PNMs, less paperwork for the chapters.

Here's what I wrote in the Phi Sig thread and I'm pasting it here because I don't want to rewrite it. Let's just say that a non-member is not a stakeholder.

Come on folks.....how many people are on LinkedIn looking for a connection? Sorority recs are the same thing. So....

Dangit! I was actually looking for the like button, forgetting that I'm not on Facebook.

I'd like to maybe include non-sorority recs with the panhellenic application, and then leave sorority recs to the alumnae (or members, depending if that is how your sorority rolls).

That could be a good start!

Right, but why do PNMs have to "have" recs? We tell them they don't need to get them, but they really do need to get *two* for each chapter (but they're not required, wink wink). Thus we have young women scrambling to get in touch with their pastor's sister-in-law for a rec to XYZ at Big State U.

If an organization "needs" a rec, per their policy, shouldn't they get it themselves or come right out and SAY THAT THEY ARE REQUIRED? I never really understood the "recs are not required" party line but make sure you get two for each chapter (wink wink). That perpetuates the need for PNMs to get recs from alumnae who don't even know her.

I agree that recs are useful for passing along information on a young woman who deserves a good look or for reporting on a troublesome young woman who merits a no-rec. Absolutely. But we're not helping first time college attendees when they didn't know the secret rules of the game.

The wink wink is from Panhel. They cannot say recs are required to participate in rush because rush is a Panhellenic function. They can’t make statements about individual groups’ membership selection policies. That would be like mall management saying what scents Bath and Body Works can carry.

As for the groups that do require a rec before a bid is issued, it would kill chapters at some schools if the girls had to find their own. These groups have decided on this policy and if it works for them, that is their business, not mine.

Non- sorority recs???? All I have to say to that is “2000 women registered to rush at Alabama.”

Oh, I understand that. I guess what I'm struggling to articulate is that I'm thinking the organizations should come right out and say if they, as individual organizations, need recs. For example, the Panhellenic rush booklet has a page for each chapter, listing their colors, mascot, philanthropy, and financial info. Why not have a "rec needed?" line? Why are the individual sororities keeping it a secret? The PNMs would need to know this ahead of time, of course, so they could get the recs. So, in that regard, printing in the booklet isn't a great solution; but, there has to be some way to signal to PNMs that it really is required. Perhaps the national organizations should consider being more transparent about that.


Exactly. Those chapters will obtain a rec one way or another if one is needed to bid the PNM.

From what I can tell, the practice of PNMs "needing" to obtain 1-2 recs per chapter has it's roots in PNMs who knew the game ahead of time (via info from Greek mothers and grandmothers, etc). Those PNMs realized that they could gain some favorable ground in the process by doing the sorority's work for them. In that way, the sororities' responsibility to obtain recs got pushed on to the PNMs .

Now, picture a freshman POC who is first in her family to attend college. She sees the organizations at the campus new students fair and thinks sororities look like fun. She didn't get the word that she was supposed to have recs because nobody told her, it's not advertised, and her family hasn't been Greek before. The more well-connected girls already knew this and got their recs lined up. The argument I see given here and elsewhere is, as long as she is a stand-out, someone in that sorority will somehow find someone to write her a rec before being bid. The again, what's the point of an alum in a back room during rush writing a rec for a PNM she's never met before?


I agree.


I've been sick the past few days; so, I guess it's going over my head. I didn't understand your response here. Carnation mentioned that one of the reasons she supports recs is so alumnae can notify a chapter of bad apples ahead of time. I was agreeing that no-rec (bad PNM alert) is one example of how recs are helpful.

Imagine all 2000 Bama PNMs asking former teachers, neighborhood women, former baby sitters, Sunday school teachers, Brownie leaders, etc. for a rec, if sororities were to allow non-member recs. Instead of the occasional PNM with more than the requested number of recs, chapters would probably get numerous non-member recs for many, many girls.

There is no way that a sorority is going to sit down with the list of 2000 PNMs and send out SOSs for recs before rush begins. And as we know, it is an easy way to cut a girl in the early days of rush, especially for the chapter that has high return rates, so is looking for reasons to cut. Until the powers that be decide that recommendations are no longer necessary, or that they are not fair to the first gen PNM, it behooves PNMs to do their diligence, find out about the campus Panhellenic culture, and follow the protocol.

Oh wait...maybe there is a misunderstanding. When I say "no-rec" that means a sorority alumna who is writing a negative recommendation to the chapter due to the PNM being a risk management issue. I was not talking about non-Greek personal recommendation letters from non-affiliated teachers, coaches, etc.


Fair enough.

It's as though we haven't been talking about NPHC practices on GC for the past 20 years...

Do folks not know that this is exactly what happens at large HBCUs when the Deltas, AKAs, Alphas, Kappas, whoever, have a line?

At my old job, which was a community service organization, one of the site directors was asked five different times to write letters of recommendation for women wanting to be Deltas at Howard.

It's just the nature of the beast.

I bet that Howard didn't have 2000 women wanting to be Deltas!

... They do. But they also know that not all of them will be selected at Howard too.

Same with NPCs at Bama--or anywhere else!

That's why I suggested having recs be part of registering with Panhellenic. That way, each PNM would only have, let's say 2, recs sent to the sorority along with their registration info.

Hm. So you’re saying that “recs” for NPHC can come from anyone and not specifically an alumnae of that sorority?

(Been on GC for 10 years and didn’t know this...)

The problem with that is that every sorority’s rec form is different. (Sorority names used randomly) ASA’s form might focus almost exclusively on a woman’s academic history and the classes she’s taken, while KD’s might be more concerned with extracurricular activities.

Recs are part of membership selection and therefore cannot be part of Panhellenic’s province. Also, some rec forms are only available on the private side of websites. The sorority might not want everyone to have access to their rec form.

Ha!!! Also, keep in mind, 2,000 girls are participating in recruitment at Alabama to get into one of multiple chapters. At Howard, our Alpha Chapter and other HBCU’s, there could easily be 750+ ladies vying for 50 spots. Even at large state schools in the Midwest, I’ve heard of 300 to 400 interests trying to get in. It is hard to be a Delta, literally. ;)

I have written a few recommendations, but they were all ladies I knew personally. I was able to speak to who they are and I knew what they could bring to Delta. While I understand that recs are a necessary evil, I wonder if just signing off on a PNM just because she needs it, is helpful to a full evaluation of what she will bring to an org.

From an outsiders perspective who has looked at various college websites about recruitment, the necessity of rec letters could be explained more thoroughly. Perhaps even an explanation about how to get them or who to reach out to get them might be nice. I’ve seen the “recs aren’t necessary,” statements, but I know that’s not always true based on having friends Moms offer to write/find me recs in HS. That wasn’t my path, but if it was I would’ve been covered. Had they not offered, I would’ve had no idea.

I'm not talking about INSTEAD of the sorority's rec forms; I'm talking about in addition to, so that even those PNMs who don't have sorority recs have a chance to give the groups more than just the objective information on the registration form, with the goal of making the playing field more open to those who might not know, or might not be able, to get sorority recs. Every sorority could still use their own forms for their own alumnae to write sorority-specific recs.

Noooooottt just anyone. Each of our organizations have their own requirements, but I’m confident we all require more than one letter of rec. Put it this way, additional letters may be required to verify other things...but a letter(s) from an active member(s) is one that is common across the board.

One big problem I have with recs is the following situation. Alabama requires recs. I am NOT in Alabama. PNM waits until mid to late June to acquire recs. I don't know how she has handled getting them for every other chapter on campus, but she needs a KD rec. When I was President of my Alumnae Chapter, I would be notified by National that PNM contacted them about getting a KD rec, she she is from my area, can I help her out. I'd check with the members of my AC to see if there is any chance anyone knows her and can write the rec for her but alas, no one knows her. I'd finally meet with her at Starbucks and talk with her. When I filled out the rec, I would state on the form that the information was based on her resume and meeting her for 30 minutes in person. I had no real background on her, had no idea if she did get her recs earlier because she was in Juvenile Hall, no idea if she can afford the expenses, etc. She got her rec, but did not get a sterling recommendation. In fact, it was more of a non-recommendation. I also never received any kind of thank you for taking the time to meet her and of course, I never knew if she joined a chapter, actually went through recruitment, or if she dropped out. This happened a couple of times.

DaffyKD

I don't get that information either - from ANY DG chapter. I don't think we do that any longer. I do hear if she pledged DG but that's it. I think most groups have dropped this...and at Alabama ( where I am) it just can't be done for 2400 PNMs.

Thanks for the clarification

Four years ago I wrote a recommendation for a PNM who went through recruitment as Mississippi State. I had heard from other DG alumnae, that often times they never heard back from the chapter if the PNM pledged DG or joined another organization. My rec girl joined Pi Beta Phi but I was actually surprised and pleased to at least hear back from the DG chapter that she had not pledged but had joined another group.

Lucky you. I write several a year for them and don't hear back unless they pledge!

So ... why not get rid of "normal" recs and just have no recs? So no one sends in anything unless the PNM in question is an issue.

Because they introduce girls who may be unknown to the chapter, like small-town girls and out-of-state girls.

But they aren't just introducing those girls - they're introducing every PNM. The small-town/out-of-state girls are still lost in the shuffle.



I feel recs went from being a way to introduce someone special to the chapter to something everyone has to have, therefore rendering them useless.

You're right about what many people call fake recs--the ones they get off of strangers on the Internet. However, the real recs, which are kind of easy to pick out really do help to introduce the small town girls. That's often the only way they get noticed in a crowd.

Disagree. I have found that many PNMS of all colors disregard the best source of all for recs--their teachers. For some reason, it doesn't even occur to them that their teachers might have gone to college.

Sorority alum teachers in this town and surrounding ones make a big point of searching for girls who might want to rush NPC groups and making sure they have the recs they need. Yes, for girls of all colors and there are many. They also publicize the benefits of Greek membership.

I find that girls who are first-in-the-family college students have researched the activities, among other things, at their colleges far more than others have. They take the initiative and ask for advice.

Sigghhh...AOII Rose, most of the regular members here are highly educated. We have members of various professions--medical, legal, educational--and we don't need to be schooled on what recs are for or how people get them. Most of us work closely with our organizations or Panhellenic. We know our stuff.

Of course, there are alums in the back who will write recs for someone they really, really want. Great girls will not be overlooked. Before that, though, an alum has probably met or found out about a great girl from her recruitment application and has been put on the trail of finding a rec for her, probably from her school.

Never mind us, though, we'll be sitting down here on our porches in classist and racist ignorance like the hillbillies you think we are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsC4kf6x_Q0

That's right, you should. Bye.

What just happened? Why did AOII Rose's posts disappear?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I don't know whether she was banned or flounced. And we have no way of knowing if she was given a warning or not, or what her conversations with moderators might have been.

ETA - Apparently she was banned. So, who wants in on when a "new" member appears?

EATA - Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

We might also do well to remember that the Alabamas and Texases are the minority of campuses with greek life. To make a policy because "it can't be done at 'Bama" rings elitist to me.

The other thing I have always been proud of, and that Delta Gamma doesn't make as big a deal of as I wish it would, is that membership selection is a responsibility reserved to collegians. It's a big responsibility, and *real* information can't hurt. Irrelevant information abounds, though.

Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to recall that recs were one of the keys to sororities and fraternities being allowed to remain single sex organizations.
Can anyone quote a solid source for that? Or know any different?