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-   -   Beta Theta Pi pledge dies at Penn State (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=226258)

GreekOne 05-11-2017 08:37 PM

From what I've read, the social took place before the "gauntlet" began and the women had all left.

Actually, the gauntlet took place after a short ritual. The social was to begin after that. If you read the timeline presented by the DA, the women were there when Tim fell. I have read reports that they spoke with him after his fall and they reported that he said he "was okay". So, they were definitely in a position to call 911 if they felt that his condition required medical attention.

33girl 05-12-2017 10:30 AM

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2431569)
I wonder if the author would have written such an article if it were an NPC sorority chapter instead.


GreekOne 05-12-2017 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2431604)
.

I wonder if the author would have written such an article if it were an NPC sorority chapter instead.

I believe that if the Beta's had been hosting an NPC chapter that night, that group would be in hot water as well. IMO, PSU is singling out the Greeks with sanctions is far more of a CYA move, than real concern for student safety. If they wanted to implement policies to protect all students, these sanctions would be applied across all campuses, not just University Park, as well as all clubs and orgs on campus. There was a pledge death associated with hazing a few years ago at one of the branch campuses so it certainly goes on there. The THON orgs, like the one that was there that night, regularly have parties. Sanctions were not levied on the NPHC or NMGC chapters. The sanctions were levied exclusively on the IFC/Panhel chapters at University Park. This, to me, is telling about what leadership at PSU is really hoping to accomplish.

LaneSig 05-12-2017 03:18 PM

http://nicindy.org/news/2017/the-uncomfortable-truth/

Letter from Judson Horras, NIC President & CEO and Beta Theta Pi alumnus. Probably raises more questions than answers.

"Yet, the uncomfortable truth is that the inherent limitation of our interventions is that they attempt to influence student behavior from a position of external power. Time and time again, we are humbled by the fact that our efforts are shallow unless students are committed to doing the right thing in the moment. While so many outstanding students do rise to the challenge of leadership, others fall short of their responsibility to effectively govern."

PGD-GRAD 05-15-2017 07:48 AM

"Today Show" this morning had Tim Piazza's parents and his brother with their most in-depth interview yet--it was heart-wrenching; they said they had not watched the in-house video and could not. His father had nothing good to say about Penn State officials or any of the Beta brothers or pledges. They recounted their last minutes with Tim as he lay dying in the hospital.
They said that no brothers nor Penn State officials came to the wake or funeral. The interview was just damning and heart-breaking in EVERY sense.

We ALL (advisors of both men's and women's groups) should consider showing these films and interviews to our entire chapters next fall. I believe they hit EVERYBODY, regardless of age. I've already spoken to our new chapter officers about it being part of one of next-fall's early meetings.

Weaver D 05-15-2017 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGD-GRAD (Post 2431749)
"Today Show" this morning had Tim Piazza's parents and his brother with their most in-depth interview yet--it was heart-wrenching; they said they had not watched the in-house video and could not. His father had nothing good to say about Penn State officials or any of the Beta brothers or pledges. They recounted their last minutes with Tim as he lay dying in the hospital.
They said that no brothers nor Penn State officials came to the wake or funeral. The interview was just damning and heart-breaking in EVERY sense.

We ALL (advisors of both men's and women's groups) should consider showing these films and interviews to our entire chapters next fall. I believe they hit EVERYBODY, regardless of age. I've already spoken to our new chapter officers about it being part of one of next-fall's early meetings.

My wife and saw the same segment on the Today show this morning. As a former FSL professional and my wife a current senior-level college administrator, we were shocked when the father stated that no one from Penn State attended the wake or the funeral. At least someone from the DOS office should have attended. The segment was heart-breaking to watch. To lose a child is devastating enough, but to lose a child when it could have been prevented by making a simple call to 911 when it first happened just makes it just so much worse. My heart goes out to the Piazza family.

ASTalumna06 05-15-2017 12:37 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/US/penn-state-...ry?id=47413710

Quote:

When asked the best way to serve Piazza's memory, Evelyn Piazza replied, "To save other people's lives.

"That's all we have at this point," added her husband, Jim Piazza.

Jim Piazza said the family plans to be "the advocate" for other families with children preparing to enter college.

"Tim Piazza is not just our son anymore," he said. "He represents everyone’s son and daughter that is looking to go to college and potentially get involved in Greek life."

ASTalumna06 05-15-2017 02:00 PM

Penn State ‘Deeply Regrets’ Not Sending Administrator To Piazza Funeral

http://onwardstate.com/2017/05/15/pe...iazza-funeral/

It amazes me that no one thought it would be a good idea to send an administrator, just like it amazes me that not one person saw Tim in the state he was in and decided to call for help.

honeychile 05-15-2017 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGD-GRAD (Post 2431749)
"Today Show" this morning had Tim Piazza's parents and his brother with their most in-depth interview yet--it was heart-wrenching; they said they had not watched the in-house video and could not. His father had nothing good to say about Penn State officials or any of the Beta brothers or pledges. They recounted their last minutes with Tim as he lay dying in the hospital.
They said that no brothers nor Penn State officials came to the wake or funeral. The interview was just damning and heart-breaking in EVERY sense.

Sorry, the rank and file should have rebelled against any order to not attend. I cannot imagine such a callous response!

Quote:

We ALL (advisors of both men's and women's groups) should consider showing these films and interviews to our entire chapters next fall. I believe they hit EVERYBODY, regardless of age. I've already spoken to our new chapter officers about it being part of one of next-fall's early meetings.
Yes.

Kevin 05-15-2017 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honeychile (Post 2431763)
Sorry, the rank and file should have rebelled against any order to not attend. I cannot imagine such a callous response!


Yes.

To be fair, I'm sure their lawyers told them not to attend. And to be fair, many of them are facing criminal charges and the ones who aren't could be soon. In the same position, I'd probably give similar advice unless I could send a minder to make sure they say absolutely nothing to anyone, which in retrospect, is probably what should have been done.

honeychile 05-16-2017 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2431772)
To be fair, I'm sure their lawyers told them not to attend. And to be fair, many of them are facing criminal charges and the ones who aren't could be soon. In the same position, I'd probably give similar advice unless I could send a minder to make sure they say absolutely nothing to anyone, which in retrospect, is probably what should have been done.

I thought that, after posting, but it still seems so callous.

33girl 05-16-2017 04:43 PM

And if brothers WOULD have attended, there would have probably been everything from sneers of "hypocrites" under people's' breaths, to punches thrown. This is truly a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Unless there were brothers that were close enough to Mr Piazza that they'd gotten to know his family, I'd think those would be the last people his loved ones would want to see.

PGD-GRAD 05-16-2017 06:22 PM

I w

PGD-GRAD 05-16-2017 06:26 PM

I am surprised none of his pledge brothers went though; they were blameless. But as was said, I'm sure Beta Hdqtrs. told them to stay away. 33girl is probably right--damned either way. But maybe flowers from the pledge class?
As for PSU not sending anybody--that is INEXCUSABLE.

QueenD 05-16-2017 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGD-GRAD (Post 2431812)
I am surprised none of his pledge brothers went though; they were blameless. But as was said, I'm sure Beta Hdqtrs. told them to stay away. 33girl is probably right--damned either way. But maybe flowers from the pledge class?
As for PSU not sending anybody--that is INEXCUSABLE.

If beta headquarters wanted actives and pledges to stay away, I understand that but they should have sent a local adviser and/or a national officer. And the school should also have sent representation.

GreekOne 05-30-2017 08:13 AM

Another interesting aspect to this story...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...y-hazing-party

carnation 05-30-2017 08:28 AM

:eek:

Kevin 05-30-2017 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekOne (Post 2432454)
Another interesting aspect to this story...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...y-hazing-party

I love it. This shows what happens when administrations overplay their hand. They are left with rogue underground groups which they cannot regulate at all. In this case, the sorority openly recruits, parties with fraternities and does all of the things which would have ended the existence of any NPC group.

This is what happens when schools start to eliminate the Greek system. It won't go away, it'll come back and it'll be much worse.

GreekOne 05-30-2017 09:45 AM

I completely agree! As PSU continues down the path of restricting recognized organizations, I suspect we will see more groups like this one. It is very concerning!

clemsongirl 05-30-2017 11:17 AM

Epsilon Sigma Alpha, which was briefly mentioned in the article, is the same way. Nationally a co-ed service organization, in practice another social sorority that recruits the same way Trilogy does and is also not a recognized Greek organization.

carnation 05-30-2017 11:37 AM

A college where I used to teach (there's a long thread on GC somewhere) had locals for years until their awful and unregulated behavior forced the college into making everyone go national. One group dragged their feet, complained, and threatened but they finally went national too.

I don't blame the school! Students could've been killed doing what all they were doing! The college didn't want that or the liability they might have had to shoulder.

33girl 05-30-2017 03:18 PM

Bad terminology makes me stabby. Trilogy and ESA are NOT underground sororities - they are recognized student organizations. Penn State had the same issue before when there were "service sororities" that functioned as social sororities, without the NPC restrictions.

IMO Penn State is susceptible to this sort of thing for two reasons; 1) there are SO many more fraternities than sororities, and 2) the sororities don't have houses, they have dorm suites. Trilogy doesn't have a house? Big whoop, ASA doesn't either.

Until the sororities get houses or (even more so) the fraternities refuse to socialize with Trilogy and ESA, they're going to stay around.

33girl 05-30-2017 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2432456)
I love it. This shows what happens when administrations overplay their hand. They are left with rogue underground groups which they cannot regulate at all. In this case, the sorority openly recruits, parties with fraternities and does all of the things which would have ended the existence of any NPC group.

This is what happens when schools start to eliminate the Greek system. It won't go away, it'll come back and it'll be much worse.

Although this wasn't the school's doing, it was DDD national that closed the chapter. The school allowed Trilogy to form and flourish. What their rationale is behind that when they actively got rid of similar groups years ago I do not know.

But honestly, it could have been ANY sorority at this party, just as it could have been ANY fraternity this happened to, and anyone who doesn't believe that has their head in the sand.

GreekOne 05-30-2017 07:44 PM

@33girl "it could have been ANY sorority at this party, just as it could have been ANY fraternity this happened to, and anyone who doesn't believe that has their head in the sand."

Of course it could have been, and if it were, that sorority would have been gone along with Beta Theta Pi.

The DG chapter at UConn closed earlier this year. A member was killed in a horrific accident after attending a party at a fraternity. The accident was not related to chapter programming
in this incident (i.e. no hazing, etc) other than the fact that she got drunk at an event the chapter was attending immediately before the accident. The DG chapter was closed.

If this had been an NPC group at Beta's that night, they would be gone. The fact that PSU's administration has not addressed this THON org, undermines what they are trying to accomplish
with their IFC/Panhel sanctions.

Griffins&Quills 05-30-2017 08:42 PM

I don't think there's an issue with disparity between number of fraternities and number of sororities. My campus had 7 sororities and 33 fraternities. We didn't have those issues. Then again, the South is a little different.

GreekOne 05-31-2017 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffins&Quills (Post 2432481)
I don't think there's an issue with disparity between number of fraternities and number of sororities. My campus had 7 sororities and 33 fraternities. We didn't have those issues. Then again, the South is a little different.

If each fraternity is permitted 10 socials/semester and there are 45 fraternities, that is 450 events. If the 22 NPC groups are each permitted 10, that is 220 socials. The question becomes who do the fraternities social with the other 230 times?? This is why they turn to groups that are outside of NPC.

And therefore, the suggestion that this imbalance provides opportunity for underground/local groups to thrive. Especially when they don't have any restrictions on the number of social events that they can plan.

aephi alum 05-31-2017 08:38 PM

True that.

I will add that the fraternities can social with groups at other nearby colleges. There were a few fraternities at my school that flat out refused to mix with the sororities at my school - they mixed with groups (including NPC sorority chapters) at other schools.

clemsongirl 05-31-2017 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekOne (Post 2432897)
If each fraternity is permitted 10 socials/semester and there are 45 fraternities, that is 450 events. If the 22 NPC groups are each permitted 10, that is 220 socials. The question becomes who do the fraternities social with the other 230 times?? This is why they turn to groups that are outside of NPC.

And therefore, the suggestion that this imbalance provides opportunity for underground/local groups to thrive. Especially when they don't have any restrictions on the number of social events that they can plan.

My understanding was that the socials were more like weekend parties that were open than specific closed events limited to members of certain sororities or invited dates, but I don't know now where I read that. I just remember it being a misleading term.

There's also no schools near Penn State (that I know of), but I suppose schools near each other might find it a more valid option. I know the NPHC groups at the school I work at routinely attend each other's social events, but that's a different ball of wax.

ASTalumna06 06-01-2017 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clemsongirl (Post 2432914)
There's also no schools near Penn State (that I know of), but I suppose schools near each other might find it a more valid option. I know the NPHC groups at the school I work at routinely attend each other's social events, but that's a different ball of wax.

I was going to say this. The closest schools that they would potentially socialize with are 20+ miles away. And they're much smaller than PSU. I doubt this is happening there.

aephi alum 06-01-2017 05:46 PM

Good point, ASTalumna06. I went to school in the Boston/Cambridge area, where you can't swing a cat without hitting a college or university.

JonInKC 06-01-2017 08:17 PM

Did anyone see the pictures of Trilogy girls making Delta signs? Looks like a big FU to Tri Delta.

https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net...07&oe=59E1DFCE

GreekOne 06-02-2017 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInKC (Post 2432951)
Looks like a big FU to Tri Delta.

The existence of this group is a big FU to Tri Delta, as well as the university. They lost their recognition by their nationals so they morphed into a group recognized by PSU which allows them to openly recruit. The understanding on campus is that they still use Tri Delta rituals as well.

As a proud member of an NPC group, I am bothered by the gall of these women. If someone wants to form a local, and the campus culture allows it, that is one thing. But, to carry on as imposters of another organization is crass.

GreekOne 06-02-2017 08:51 AM

On another note, the Piazza family sent a letter to the PSU board in advance of their meeting today. Their suggestions are in the letter below:

http://onwardstate.com/2017/06/01/pi...y-proceedings/

PGD-GRAD 06-02-2017 10:33 AM

While I scanned it only quickly, there's apparently a battle over the return of the camera footage taken from the PSU Beta house. If I can find the complete article I'll post it. It sounds as if Beta is angry that the county law enforcement either won't return it or did return it but not in its entirety. That tape is--as they say--"the smoking gun".

LXA SE285 06-02-2017 11:17 AM

Does ESA allow its collegiate chapters to be coed or single-sex on a local basis, or could a guy demand to join this chapter?

GreekOne 06-02-2017 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LXA SE285 (Post 2432998)
Does ESA allow its collegiate chapters to be coed or single-sex on a local basis, or could a guy demand to join this chapter?

A guy could ask to join the chapter. However, there is likely a membership selection process at which they could simply say that they didn't like him. It would take a bunch of guys trying to join this chapter to create a case for exclusion due to gender.

Because ESA has only been on campus since Chi O left in 2014, it is not as entrenched as Trilogy is after 8 years.

33girl 06-02-2017 03:35 PM

I feel horrible for the Piazzas, but assume of the things they ask (like the university becoming owners of all the Greek houses - this would require an enormous amount of money) are unrealistic.

Plus - I've read that his biological brother was also a Beta member a fee years ago. Is that true? If so, I question why it is never mentioned.

Kevin 06-02-2017 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2433009)
Plus - I've read that his biological brother was also a Beta member a fee years ago. Is that true? If so, I question why it is never mentioned.

Because no one wants to hear the storyline that his brother must have known about this hazing, said nothing, and was therefore complicit.

GreekOne 06-02-2017 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2433009)
the things they ask (like the university becoming owners of all the Greek houses - this would require an enormous amount of money) are unrealistic.

I have not seen a complete summary of the Board of Trustees meeting this afternoon. However, in one article that I saw is a proposal that there be a fee assessed to all Greeks (think pledge fee paid to PSU) to cover additional expenses associated with managing Greek affairs. So, it seems, they aren't concerned about these added expenses. They simply intend to pass it along to the 17% of the student body that pledges.

ASTalumna06 06-02-2017 07:34 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/US/penn-state-...ry?id=47788744

Quote:

Today, the Board of Trustees met and supported new measures proposed by the university, including: university staff members monitoring social events; the university taking control of the fraternity and sorority misconduct and adjudication process; more parent education; and permanent revocation of university recognition for any chapter involved in "hazing that involves alcohol, physical abuse, or any behavior that puts a student’s mental or physical health at risk."

The university said today it's also begun conversations about legislative initiatives, including support for a congressional proposal to expand Clery Act reporting (which requires schools that receive federal funding to distribute a public annual security report) to include hazing violations and more discussions "with state officials on ways to strengthen penalties for hazing, especially hazing that includes alcohol, and on increased statewide educational initiatives on the dangers of hazing and dangerous drinking."


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